Vemon sacks and giants suck....

[Teralis]

Well seems there are to many giants out there that really enjoy these stupid little sacks. I think it is long overdue for me to take my normal time away from fl and get some crap straightened out in my life. Not sure how long I will be gone but when all a giant has to go is eat sack bash bash bash it kinda takes all the fun and skill out of the game. I mean why do we take so long training our characters if this is all a giant has to do to win, its pretty damned stupid to me. I knew I should have listened to Myrek and just bolted and not come back at all but fl had ahold of me but now I at least have something to shake off those fl jitters with PS3, thank god. It will be tough and I may find myself rolling a char here and there but I will keep a note on my comp. DONT DO IT TERALIS REMEMBER LAST TIME!!!!! lol. Anyway good luck to all you people out there with your chars and your lives. I just dont have the skills to compete here anymore. And to the fl Fantasy Football league teams, watch out as this will give me more time to study my picks, I will take the trophy this year darnnit.

[Pali]

First you say winning without any skill is too easy, then you say that you don't have the skills to compete. Make up your mind!

Seriously, though, while I understand the frustration from bashlock... there are ways around it. For one, don't play a class that is as vulnerable to it - c/cs are pretty good at getting around it, blms and monks have their counters to it, and a rogue doesn't want to be fighting a giant warrior/zerk in melee anyhow. Being able to bash someone into the ground has been around since the beginning of FL - I don't see why it should suddenly be such an issue for you now that it leads you to quit. There's got to be more to it than that.

[Trick]

There is a fix in progress to stop the bash/bodyslam/trip/tackle locks that characters rely on so heavily. Be patient. It is a good change, long overdue in my opinion, that will seriously change the style that classes with lag will play.

[Pali]

There is a fix in progress to stop the bash/bodyslam/trip/tackle locks that characters rely on so heavily. Be patient. It is a good change' date=' long overdue in my opinion, that will seriously change the style that classes with lag will play.[/quote']

I did not know this. Most excellent.

[Anume]

Also, try to fight these giants at equal rank and with as much - ac as you can possibly get.

[Kyzarius]

Around -600 ac, and they wont be able to lock you from my experience.

[Sandbox]

Around -600 ac' date=' and they wont be able to lock you from my experience.[/quote']

i wasn't aware halflings could be crusaders.

[Kyzarius]

i wasn't aware halflings could be crusaders.

Naive comment sandy.

Any cleric can hit this, drows, halflings, and elves all have base dex that makes this easy for them. Battlemages can do this easily. Thieves of the right race, and who are good at thievery (pry), can easily stack consumables and armor to achieve -600

I ran Sepahoona with -750 ac, using consumables plus savant abilities, and gear.

The challenge is that you have to sacrifice hp gear in most cases. This means you have to be quick and have decent forsight in battle.

To add, stacking ac will cause dirt, trip, and other melee abilities to miss as well. I had wm leaders miss dirt kick for rounds on end. Throw in haste, with already high ac and you become a dodge machine, miss miss miss, and whe they do hit...its a hit.

[mya]

Fire Giants bash is why I stop playing Paladins.

It's just to easy to enlarge bash with spear+whip and Paladins starts losing badly. It just leave little margin to error.

Making the move to C/C, made me realize just how much better the game can be when you factor lag out of the equation, and it becomes mostly skill.

Made me also appreciate the marvel that is to have several options, not just automatic stuff like weapon choice and hope you outdamage them.

Clerics, Battlemages and Shamans were my favorite classes.

Then came Mino warriors. And the charge lag thing. And suddenly I was back to the same spot as my Paladin vs a Fire Giant. How I hated that.

I don't mind having bot my weapons disarmed and HP crushed in 4 rounds of meele, because as long as I can play and be lagged, I will find a way to come on top. But when I cannot do nothing but stare and wait the lag to go away, its frustrating.

That said I still enjoy meele classes. The ones that actually have way to directly or indirectly deal with bash, and have many options. Classes like thieves, monks, ninjas and especialy DK's.

For me a DK will fair a lot better than a Paladin vs giant bash.

Because:

I can enlarge first and bash first with same size.

I have a Pet that can aids my damage Output, and bashes back.

I have a bag full of tricks from my spells.

I Know every weapon, and can thwart staffs with a shield.

So let come that Fire Giant to me, that I shall eat a sack, get a Warlock and spam Iceballs while he is lagged by my pet or missed bash.

[f0xx]

Sorry Mya, but...

Anyone who claims it's easy for a giant to bash lock a paladin is either:

1) An idiot

2) Has no experience playing paladins

3) Has no experience fighting paladins with a class that can bash/bodyslam

PS. Oh my, your English is worse even than mine, if that is even possible.

PSS. I still love you, you know?

[Pali]

Great argument, Foxx - insult your way to rhetorical victory!

Bash IS a serious problem for paladins - which it is supposed to be. It is something that a paladin has to anticipate and prepare for. It can certainly be gotten around with proper prep, but it is still the biggest threat to a paladin's life in the game as it is all that can lock them down - without being lagged, paladins can outrun anything and match or surpass anything in the attrition game. Other than bash lag, the only real threat to a paladin is rogues. Edit: Hell, the only thing that has ever killed one of my paladins is laglock.

[f0xx]

Please Pali, note exactly what I said:

Anyone who claims it's easy for a giant to bash lock a paladin is either:

Out of anything else that can be bashlocked, a paladin is perhaps the hardest thing to be.

Ofcourse, that does not mean if you are well prepared (whatever your understanding of well-prepared is) you will never die to a bashlock. Yes, you will, just as you are supposed to.

And while we are on the subject, what is your understanding of bashlock?

[The Forsaken]

Sorry Mya, but...

Anyone who claims it's easy for a giant to bash lock a paladin is either:

1) An idiot

2) Has no experience playing paladins

3) Has no experience fighting paladins with a class that can bash/bodyslam

PS. Oh my, your English is worse even than mine, if that is even possible.

PSS. I still love you, you know?

I,

1) Am not an idiot

2) Have played numerous Paladins

3) Don't typically play classes that have bash/bodyslam skill.

That being said. I've been bashlocked numerous times while mounted on a Goliath by giant/ogre warrior/zerks.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it happens more than you think.

[Pali]

Out of anything else that can be bashlocked' date=' a paladin is perhaps the hardest thing to be.[/quote']

Then, in the interests of clarity, you may want to say this next time rather than tossing insults. Now, I do agree that it's easier to bash to death a rogue in open combat - but I'm not sure how much easier it is to do so to another giant melee due to minimal experience playing them, and a DKs charmy can easily interrupt the opponent's bashing, and druids have crazy good AC to deal with it, and monks and blms have balance... So while I agree that of classes that don't have prot shield or the equivalent paladins are on the harder end to bash lock, this is a heavily context-dependent judgment, and many other non-c/cs can be far more difficult to bash depending on their prep.

And while we are on the subject, what is your understanding of bashlock?

3 in a row without a command.

[Celerity]

I'd argue in favor that a paladin doesn't have great defense against bashing. Even the best ones tend to take their deaths from bashlocks.

As for the -AC argument, that simply isn't feasible for most people, especially not for those who are vulnerable to bash in the first place. And even if you hit -600 or whatever, it doesn't make enough of a difference. The cost of other stats you pay to get to that level makes it a very poor overall strategy.

And let's say you could defend against bashlocks with some consistency..the fight would be like fighting a shaman in buddha.

This is the critical weakness in the paladin class, one that simply can't be overcome. For that reason alone, paladins may be somewhat powerful, but they cannot survive for a long period if there are skilled heavy melees around.

You can essentially do everything a paladin does better as a good cleric--without the vulnerabilities. To me, that marks the paladin (and cleric, as I've stated before) as somewhat broken classes.

[jibber]

I honestly ever got locked once as Istendil, and that was a bodyslam lock. And I never really wore very good armor, and had, at most -350 ac at any given time.

[Pali]

I honestly ever got locked once as Istendil' date=' and that was a bodyslam lock. And I never really wore very good armor, and had, at most -350 ac at any given time.[/quote']

Ilendriel never died to it, and Teladrien only did once, neither with an AC better than -300 - but that was less because the bashes were ineffective, and more because I did my best (as i suspect you did) to prevent them from starting in the first place (e.g. Flee after the dirt kick and before the bash, etc.). A blind paladin can easily go down in the span of a few bashes, but one that can see and still has all his defenses will take a while to wear down, usually long enough for a bash to miss.