Sandbox Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 materia magica: 119 total Connections. 1 total Immortal online. 47 total Archons online. 115 total Adventurers online. 116 total in-game. how the heck are we this far behind other muds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Nameless Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Fl has never had a pbase thhat size ever. I miss the days of 40the people at once but that is the nature of these games. We slowly deteriorate into nothing as the years pass til only the most diehard players remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Or we get some real regular code updates. Maintenance-only is the path of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Volgathras Posted August 8, 2012 Implementor Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 If anyone knows any experienced and dedicated coders who are unlikely to succumb to the pressures of real life, let us know. We have coders, but more prospects are always welcome. Just mention it on prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 materia magica: 119 total Connections. 1 total Immortal online. 47 total Archons online. 115 total Adventurers online. 116 total in-game. how the heck are we this far behind other muds No prayer forum for one. The entire concept of driving any complaints or player beefs into a private forum only viewable by the imm staff only serves to silence player views that do not coincicde with the administration. Most muds I have been on, that have a significantly higher pbase, tend to air their dirty laundry. Information on current projects, a more open PTR style build approach, not concealing plans under the guise of "its better of you not to know". No censorship of complaints for the mot part (unless it is absolutly flagrant). On one of the muds I have tried they rarely censor any threads. I do not think the admin has deleted a thread in a year or so. Also they dont hide who are imms when people get immed, they include the pbase in deciding who gets imm'ed as well. FL treats being immed like you joined some super secret club, which initiates you secretly, while many muds celebrate being promoted to imm status and allow players to vote. These quality of life things help the pbase feel more involved, make people feel like they have a voice that matters, and this goes miles towards securing a dedicated pbase. Fl has adopted a policy of if you dont like it get out, and seems many folks just op for the get out option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Volgathras Posted August 8, 2012 Implementor Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Respectfully, Kyzarius, I'm at a loss as to what precisely you want from us. I like to think we do try our best to make this a fun and engaging place for all players. I believe we do have a fair level of transparency that balances public knowledge and maintaining a dose of mystery (which has improved in recent months). Preventing widespread knowledge of who an imm plays is a strategic decision designed to allow the administrator in question to not be perpetually hassled ("approve my desc! why haven't I gotten avatar yet.."), and to let them continue to enjoy the benefits of being an anonymous player. To address claims of censorship; we may occasionally remove a post we deem to be offensive or inviting a hostile response. This may rankle some sensitivities, but it's a choice we've made to improve the overall feel of our community. Anarchy may be fun for some, but there would be many others who would lose out if we didn't sometimes come in and clean things up. Saying what you want has never been an issue - so long as it's constructive and isn't intended to be solely combative. In fact, I have known several players who have given the negative feel of the forums (and those who perpetrate it) as the primary reason for them leaving the game. I have sought to improve the community, and I think we have to a degree, but even despite my stubborn dedication to the ideals of free expression and positive reinforcement I find myself more and more inclined to agree with the many players who urge us consistently to remove the toxic forum elements. What is a toxic forum element? I mentioned it earlier - someone who posts hurtful comments and/or posts for the singular purpose of inciting discontent, lacking any constructive aspect. Will I remove these posts if I see them? Yes, absolutely - but not because of some ulterior motive or power trip - but because they serve no purpose but to bring the overall quality of our community down. I would hope that I've shown that the staff can take criticism so long as it has a basis in reality, and that we're more than willing to address the faults in our game and/or the way in which we handle things. Community involvement has been something we've tried to improve over the last little bit. I did it with the CMT - which failed primarily because I failed to give it proper direction. However, we also offered a number of opportunities in the way of contests (which failed because if people don't win something they don't want to do it), and most recently asking the playerbase to help us with renaming a major city and the streets in it. If you have any other ideas on how to improve community involvement I'm quite honestly all ears. But ask yourself; is this idea practical? Would you open up punishments to the community in general? Probably not, because the chance of the decisions being biased, being spiteful, vengeful, etc. is too high. What about rp plots? Wouldn't that take away the mystery and fun? Not to mention that the community is very rarely a united voice. Someone will invariably be upset with majority rule, just as some are invariably upset with the system we have in place now. Next, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the policy of "If you don't like it **** off" hasn't been employed by the staff for ages. I haven't read a single post in a long, long time that says anything along the lines of "well if you don't like it, leave.' On the contrary, we often very carefully weigh a decision or action based on it's public reception and it's effect on the game. Will we change a decision because one or two people kick up a fuss? No. We listen to their concerns, do some testing if necessary, and move from there. If enough people have an issue or we find we've overlooked/misjudged something, we do our best to change that. I think this has been shown with cabal reworks, class adjustments, talks currently in the works for changes to races like werebeasts, etc. Now I think there's very little I can say that won't be colored by your clear dislike for the administration, but I've posted this with the honest intention of sharing my point of view and attempting to understand your own. Is this not itself proof that we care for the community, when even though nothing I say would matter, I attempt to say it anyway? I'm not a glutton for public abuse, but I am shameless optimist when it comes to human interaction. Maybe if someone takes enough time to try and explain something enough times, we could move past the prejudices. Here's hoping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 K, you really to drop the boss attitude. It's getting annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Volgathras Posted August 8, 2012 Implementor Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 K' date=' you really to drop the boss attitude. It's getting annoying.[/quote'] If you mean I seem condescending then I apologize, it wasn't my intention. I'm trying trying to explain my way if thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Oh lol, that wasn't aimed at you. I use "K" as short for "Kyzarius". Always having troubles spelling his name... K is so much easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 hey man, you're the ones with the ever shrinking pbase not me. I just call it how I see it, and have no emotional involvment to sway my opinion and view. When players say "I cant bring myself to login" the answer has been dont. I am just pointing out the differences, mostly in community managment, that seperate this mud from others I play on. This mud being the smallest pbase of them all. This mud being the only one where you have such an over abundance of moderation. This is also the only mud where you consider negative feedback "poison", declaring all negative criticism or complaining as bad for the community and muting it. You guys seem to think this has nothing to do with the declining and/or lack of participation in events, but I beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Nameless Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Kyzarius, I think it may be time to jump down off that high horse before you die of oxygen depravation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Kyzarius' date=' I think it may be time to jump down off that high horse before you die of oxygen depravation.[/quote'] Pretend it's a dead horse and beat it. Maybe he'll fall off! lol..no offense, man, that popped into my head and I thought we all might get a chuckle out of it, you included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insepiddeception Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I don't care if I catch crap for this but I am just going to put my two cents in which is rare for me to do on these types of touchy topics. I have played for years, and will probably play for as long as the game is around there's something infinitely more enjoyable about using your brain as a graphics engine than anything the console companies can ever make. I see a lot of veiled and unveiled punches on the imm staff and it kind of irritates me. You have a group of people who for one reason or another take it upon themselves to keep this game running that we all obviously enjoy even the naysayers because they're still here. There is no compensation for what they do they just do it. There is no monthly subscription fee we must pay, unless you're one of us that donate. For the most part I thoroughly enjoy reading peoples ideas, humor, and general discussion on the forums. But a lot of times I dont even post on threads because its just irritating. I absolutely love it when I see obviously new players in the game and do my best to help them along in anyway I can but I swear sometimes I just want to go out of character and say please don't go on the forums , it will just ruin your fun. I love that we all don't have open access to who the imms are, it would turn ugly I think we all know it would. It keeps OOC at a far manageable extent, and adds a bit of mystery to the whole experience that some of us enjoy. Like I said I have played for many years and by no means am I a good pk player but something draws me back in even when I get discouraged at my lack of skill. That attraction has a lot to do with the staff and players. Not to name drop but a few players on here are the exact reason I play: your mindflayers, your tassins, your jibbers, your emp_newbs, your tricks. They're highly skilled but they also give constructive criticisms and been a major help to me personally get the marginal improvement I have made in the years I have been here. As for the coders it has been years since I have coded anything but I would gladly throw my hat in the ring to help out in any way I can. I am at a loss on how we could get our numbers back to the way they were but I think its more or less a sign of the times: Some played as teens and real life got in the way, more complex graphics games probably stole some as well, I do honestly think the forums has been a big contributor to the decline in the pbase as well. I have said enough I think, back to the shadows I go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 ahh, see the response we get for criticism. Get off your high horse they say. You dismiss me so readily, yet, can you create a definitive list of reasons why this mud is in decline when others of similar gameplay and design are not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrozin Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'll keep this as simple as I can. As Volg has pointed out, we think things through thoroughly and the players are always on our mind, as are their best interests, although not everyone would agree. Rehashing how IMMs censor, ban, can't take negative criticisms, etc... is fast become old. There is a difference between being entitled to civic/civil discourse and spreading negativity where everyone can see it. Not everyone responds the same way to any news and it's only fair to keep that in mind. Thank you. Kyzarius, we'll be happy to see you again in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 You dismiss me so readily' date=' yet, can you create a definitive list of reasons why this mud is in decline when others of similar gameplay and design are not?[/quote'] All muds are in decline, and yes I can create a list of reasons, just like you can. You might be arrogant as hell, but you are in no way stupid. You like to insult people, just like I do, but most of the times you do it not because people are wrong, but because they have different opinion than yours. You are close minded. Besides, I do not think that FL is in decline. FL is a steady state for like 3-4 years and it's current state is not worse than what it was 3 years ago. The staff are doing excellent job and I am really tired of listening to ungrateful brats who have nothing else but destructive criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Nameless Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Muds are in decline because graphics are on the rise. You have 1000 lb gorillas like WoW and now Diablo directly competing, who do you think is gonna win? It is fully inevitable. This game is here for those of us that enjoy it, or want to try something new. Im not dismissing you readily, Im just saying approaching the topic like some pompous *** gets you no where. Instead of being all republican about the subject why not approach it with a partisan view? Without obviously being on one side of the fence, offer suggestions to improve what is here instead of degrade what you see. If you have legitimate suggestions, why not suggest them? Standing on a soapbox issueing I told you so's and spouting off "this is why you suck" is going to generate absolutely NO positive feedback Kyzarius. Your a damn intelligent man, I don't see how you felt when posting these things that you would gain any type of following or support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icor Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I came back, and I've had more fun this time than I have in the past. Maybe it's not as bad as some think? I know there are others that pop by too and get engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jibber Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Why was he banned? His criticism, while a little harsh was still constructive. He pointed out what should be changed and why, and his reasons in believing it. Then 3 people flame the crap out of him, he recoils and asks for an explanation and gets banned? Come on guys. That's dumb I'm not completely in agreement with him but I won't be flaming him because his views are different then mine. Him getting banned is exactly something he was trying to point out that happens needlessly. Let's not ban those who don't agree and offer constructive criticism (saying what could be changed for the better of the mud) and instead try to find a middle ground. This whole thread just tells "children, children!!" to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elrozin Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 That's between me and Kyzarius. If he chooses to tell you, that's his business. Not our policy to put the indiscretions of players out for air. This is also me putting my foot down. The methods of letting it fly does nothing and polite requests for such inflammatory remarks to be directed to the Prayer Forum seem to be ignored more and more frequently. Creating divisions within the player base by letting it fly here just creates a lack of order and has the opposite of the intended effect. Making arguments within the Prayer Forum and assisting the staff in making this a better place for all is the respectful path to take, as this is our request and policy. Continued attempts to undermine this will be met with my Ban Stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Please explain to me jibber, how exactly was his criticism constructive? I for one don't agree with what he posted, and he posts in such fashion like he is posting facts, when those are not facts but only opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflayer Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 Stop fighting on the forums and come and PK me. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I don't agree with most of his points other than one. The lack of an active coder after Viri left left FL in kind of a stagnant state. I've never seen more reasons of I'm quitting because of school or work getting in the way. In the past we had guys who didn't care about those things. I know we're all getting older but there has been new players and there still are younger players so the argument should be a bit moot. Back in the day I'd be darned if I'd miss a day of ranking my fire warrior just for work or school. Now I simply have less reason to make those less responsible choices . Years ago we had such addicted players spending entire days playing and ranking. Theirs a huge market of players out there whom we no longer attract because of the lack of coder and because we've grown a bit too "soft"? I think is the word I'm looking for. Kyzarius' post might have done some harm. But it started something that can perhaps lead to something positive. Insepiddeception offered his coding experience to help. Who knows maybe it'll do more. I'd much rather go through these negative rants sometimes, and even risk my own credibility in hopes of moving fl forward. Heck I'd make donations on a consistant basis toward the salary of a more active coder. Who's with me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imoutgoodbye Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I left a free C tutorial and free compiler download on the FL Facebook page before they permanently banned me for being irrelevant and "telling it like it is" in the words of so many other famous people (funny how a page dedicated to non-censorship can be so hypocritical). It's my opinion that a TEAM of SNIPPET coders who are dedicated to this game can do just as well as a full time coder (which is a difficult thing to get, as we've witnessed so far). The status quo can be changed. People who have the time just need to step up. Sadly, that's not me right now. My learning of the C language is temporarily halted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandbox Posted August 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 i'm just trying to figure out how other muds have 100+ people and we are far far below that number, there must be something we can do to increase the numbers. We have a good game and people seem to care, but that isn't really enough otherwise we'd be flourashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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