users online:

[Trick]

What happened to all the frequent changes? I looked forward to the 1st so I could see what was new and exciting... Seems this has slowed down a lot.

[f0xx]

Yeah' date=' I noticed that as well. The posts there are largely just banned posters venting about how unfair and mean everyone is, while the chat is mostly just players trash talking other players. I'd recommend removing official association with it, if possible. It definitely paints the game and the community here in a negative light.[/quote']

That just gets to show how "mature" our community is, when the truth about our low PB is simple - those who want "reasons" might head to the mirror.

[Elrozin]

Yeah' date=' I noticed that as well. The posts there are largely just banned posters venting about how unfair and mean everyone is, while the chat is mostly just players trash talking other players. I'd recommend removing official association with it, if possible. It definitely paints the game and the community here in a negative light.[/quote']

It's not officially affiliated with FL and it's sanction by the staff was removed months ago. Twinblades can confirm this.

[Kyzarius]

The fb group is not as easily censored. I love the apparant plotting to squelch any voice that is dissenting. Of course it would be more negative. Any post made in similar fashion here gets deleted. You would see an equal amount of frustration here, as on the fb page, if posts werent moderated into oblivion. The idea that we have to get staff sanctions just to freely discuss the game and community is laughable.

Btw, still do not see that warning to take it to prayer. I was banned for no reason at all, just voiced my opinion and was penalized. Ban reason was "told to take it to prayer", this never happened.

[Elrozin]

The fb group is not as easily censored. I love the apparant plotting to squelch any voice that is dissenting. Of course it would be more negative. Any post made in similar fashion here gets deleted. You would see an equal amount of frustration here, as on the fb page, if posts werent moderated into oblivion. The idea that we have to get staff sanctions just to freely discuss the game and community is laughable.

Btw, still do not see that warning to take it to prayer. I was banned for no reason at all, just voiced my opinion and was penalized. Ban reason was "told to take it to prayer", this never happened.

Refer to your Prayer Forum post from 3-28-12.

I expect everyone to adhere to rules, both those set out in general, and those they have been spoken to about. Everyone here is an adult and does not need to receive multiple warnings to know what they are and are not doing. There is a hierarchy in place. That is a fact, whether or not anyone likes it.

You are more than free to go and say whatever you like on the Facebook page. Nothing has been deleted or locked here in a while, however, when action is taken, it is not taken lightly. If you wish a repeal of the "no reason ban", you may take it up in prayer with one of the higher-up IMMs.

[Kyzarius]

so you banned me for an unrelated comversation 5 months ago?

Rediculous.

[Akoz]

By the sound of it you were banned for carrying on about something you have been told previously to take to the prayer forums. You seemed to have forgotten that request so you were reminded with a ban. That's what I am seeing here. I honestly wish more of the people posting the snide staff comments would be banned more often.

Back to the thread topic though. I think we are stagnant not declining. I thinkthe top five needed things are 1. More IMM interaction. 2. More changes. (Code) 3. less unconstructive critics. 4. Updates webpage. ( keep it updated with updates. Weekly atleast.) 5. A hashed out plan for our future. Where are we? Where do we want to go? How do we get there?

This is on the staff and the players hands. I have website experience that can be used of required and marketing experience for ideas on how to make the webpage updates that can keep it as browsed as the forums.

Stop with what you think that the game needs and let us no what you can offer.

Just my Two cents.

[Volgathras]

I'm very happy with the constructive criticism and fine ideas here on this thread.

In order to keep this going, I will edit posts as necessary to keep things on-topic. I'm writing this to give fair warning; I'm not stifling free speech, but I would like to proceed with the good idea presented here in an organized fashion, without having to shuffle through posts and comments that aren't pertinent.

Thank you for your understanding.

[Twinblades713]

I have no connection to the facebook page and would appreciate if I was not mentioned.... By anyone. For any reason. Respectfully, thank you.

[the_nightmare]

I stopped playing the mud before months, I am merely browsing the forums twice or thrice a month but I can tell you as a player that was playing here for almost ten years why I left... I left because of several reasons.There are no changes at all, there are just few bug corrections and changes in the last few years that are just nothing compared to the other muds.The new areas are actually worse than the old ones, which I don't really understand.To exchange area that is working fine with almost the same one and put the same artifacts but with different names on them is just crazy, not to mention it is considered as a "change".

The only new area which is better than the old one in years is the dark observatory, which is great ( many thanks to the one that coded it).Instead of new races/classes or totally new areas I see changes with which the admins try desperately to bring new players.Changes like double the expirience and lowering the time to master your skills/spells, only because they are too lazy.What else...

I know two (now ex) players of the mud that are very good coders and asked the immortals to code for us for free an year ago, the immortals said NO.

Do I even have to mention the waiting time for anything like demon/vampire or whatever else?It is beyond me how 100 hours of waiting, sitting and chatting with someone, or sometimes with nobody at all because they are 0 players online only to get something quest is considered like normal...

Delete my post or ban me if you want, I don't care it will only proof how the freedom of the speech is not tolerated in this mud, just like it happened with Kyz.

[Elrozin]

Let's not curse and lets stay on topic. It's understandable everyone has strong feelings on this. As Volg has stated, you're all doing a great job. We'll handle everything else and leave it where it can be seen.

[Trick]

So, a few questions...

Who is the coder and who is the designer?

[Volgathras]

Tongar, Anume and Zhokril code. All immortals are involved in game design.

[Tantangel]

Back to the thread topic though. I think we are stagnant not declining. I thinkthe top five needed things are 1. More IMM interaction. 2. More changes. (Code) 3. less unconstructive critics. 4. Updates webpage. ( keep it updated with updates. Weekly atleast.) 5. A hashed out plan for our future. Where are we? Where do we want to go? How do we get there?

I agree on all five accounts, but I'm sure that the Coders time in question are probably pretty limited due to RL issues so I'm sure that hinders a good majority of progress in this area. The extremely hard part about this would be to find someone who's completely unbiased and wouldn't use their knowledge of code to make the balance of the game sway in any one persons particular direction. If I had kept up with coding I would gladly do it myself but I probably would hack it up more than help it unless I studied it again.

Imm interaction to me is still more of a privilege than a right. Though more of it could be used to perhaps boost morale then perhaps for a little while Imms should focus on this a little more for the next month or so excluding Coders. I honestly think new areas could be neglected after Maelbrim is finished so that it helps drive this force more. A good thing for some of the Coders to do such as Anume is perhaps delegate the Vamp Apps and such to someone else for a little bit if she's coding then it might relieve some stresses that she may be having with things here. I noticed a few of the Imms have no responsibility when I type in wizlist or however on the game, which doesn't mean they don't have any at all, but perhaps could be given this for the time being. This would open up a few possibilities as far as interaction goes and then helps Imms to not divide their time over too many things. As far as I can see it's not really horrible to the point, but I do know that the more heavily RP focused people of the game like to have that interaction a little more often than some other people and then there's people who don't want any or hardly any interaction from them. There's no balance for this between the two people because too much and half the people get annoyed, too little and the other half is equally annoyed. I suppose a good balance could be found for it, but not knowing what it's like I can't say what that balance is.

The other two are pretty self explanatory. The last however again I will relate back to my job. We have a saying that goes, "How does your role impact the goal?"

This goal is the goal of the Company and that is to let everyone know how they affect everything that helps push the Company forward and such. It sounds slightly lame to some people, but it's a very good tool to help people realize what's going on and what they do matters and they're appreciated for the contribution they add to help the Company towards that goal. More open and honest two way communication would help aid the game towards that direction. And to be honest it is pretty honest and open from what I've seen. How can this be improved? Get players interests in upcoming code updates before they're started. It's great that we get the updates after they've been completed, but how about air out a few changes that are going to happen, when the goal is to get them completed and then when they're done you can post it along with maybe something secret that was also worked on. A) That means people know you're working on something amazing, they get excited about it and C) they are blindsided by something else they weren't expecting. It's like the bonus perk and people tend to be even more grateful about that than anything.

That's what I can see that could possibly help open up the doors so to speak, and though the way we've been doing it is still a good way, I think it could be better by opening up just a little more and leaking out information so to speak that will get people's interest up. Remember back when Virigoth posted some of his new coding skills and such on Blademasters and Fired Weapons way back when? That was probably one of the last times I can think of outside of Lich that people got extremely stoked about and even if that means it's something minor that'll be changed, every little bit is all that much more awesome. That might mean a sticky note in General Discussions on what's being worked on currently and a checklist of what's been done added to it.

[Volgathras]

To respond to some of your post;

All of the administrators are expected to watch and weigh-in on applicants. However, we restring approval and (where applicable) RP for changes to the imm in question. Volgathras approving and creating an avatar would look weird (though I did do this on one occasion).

Regarding leaking code updates and plans. This is a two-edged sword, so to speak, because we can provide a glimpse of what we're working on - which gets people excited - but if it isn't done in a timely manner (and timely is subjective) it'd just cause people to become more upset. This may be the case later if the current situation changes. Because our scheduling is dependent on volunteers who have to juggle school/work/families, and aren't paid, it becomes difficult. This is not meant to be an excuse, rather a statement of the sad reality and a means by which I might explain why we can't provide everything you're looking for.

Ideas are constantly being looked at and circulated, and the opinions of the players such as those listed here and in other threads is examined. A couple have been reposted on the imm forums for us to look at more in depth. How quickly they're implemented, however, is a different matter.

[Tantangel]

Time is something that is against us all for the most part so I understand where you guys are coming from. And I can see how leaking it could be bad, but if you guys ever leak anything I would prefer it being small things and nothing overly large that way it can be exciting to see something small happening but the larger things like maybe a new race/class would be one of the things that you don't leak sort of thing.

As for approving apps, I always thought of the App process kind of as an OOC thing, it's something that either affects your character in a form of RP or it doesn't. If a random Imm approves something even if they're of a different alignment it could always be seen as a say the Demon God approving an Avatar simply because even though he wants his own Demon minions to rule the world, that even the Demon God would like to throw a wild card into the mix by adding someone of the opposite alignment the chance to thwart his attempts at world domination. I wish we could quests for various classes and when there's too many of said class, that quest is automatically shut down until there become an open availability. And when said people mess up on RP majorly afterwards (like what probably already is done), said person just gets character slayed/denied.

And I do agree with your points, I try to stay as neutral as possible anymore so I can keep an open mind on what goes on both sides of the fence. I honestly don't see a problem with the time in which things are implemented as I know how work/life balance is a major thing in everyone's life. I'm just glad the only thing I have to worry about is work and maybe getting a couple hours of sleep here and there. For the last several months I've been setting up a business and training people for success and there for a while I was working a ton and even without a family or school I wouldn't have had time to do much.

For some reason I thought if you were wizinvis and incog when approving apps it doesn't say who approved said application. I could be wrong on that. If not though that could be another way of approving an application without you breaking your RP if you feel approving an Avatar as a Demon God. If I am wrong however I suppose there's always the possibility of Anume creating a general Imm character and for every time an applicant comes around any Imm could get on said character and approve/deny the application.

Anyways, I think I'm going to take a nap before I got to be up in a couple hours before I get ready for work. I do think you guys have honest and open communication when replying to threads. I doubt that everything will be fixed because it's hard to do with the time we all have. If we did we'd be living in too much of a perfect world which isn't nearly as fun as the chaos we run around in sometimes anyways.

[Filth]

Most of the 'popular' muds are PvE RP based with only small emphasis on PK. This offers a near unlimited amount of things to do while on and always takes away the stress that can go along with hardcore PK.

[tassinvegeta]

Ideas are constantly being looked at and circulated, and the opinions of the players such as those listed here and in other threads is examined. A couple have been reposted on the imm forums for us to look at more in depth. How quickly they're implemented, however, is a different matter.

Great! Its good to know our input and contributions are being discussed. The issue that seems to be most constant is the activity of a coder. I hope this is the main focus being examined. When the question of server fees and advertisements came up many of us were more than able to come forward and help quite easily..Why not set up a voluntary system for the more active coders?

[bavarianbrew]

It was an easy decision.

I haven't played or posted since I was banned (for the first time) from the forum without warning or reason earlier this year. I vowed to the invisible IMM IG that I was leaving forever sending my beloved Faerie Monk to an early grave.

It was an easy decision. I was disenchanted by the culture.

Now. What I will say is that The Forsaken Lands does not have an issue with game mechanics, player killing or roleplay with respect to new players.

Agree, disagree, whatever.

The game is damn good.

The playerbase is damn small.

The culture is...

Is it normal to feel that my post will have me slain (banned) from the forums? Because that is how I feel, and here is why notwithstanding the reason I left.

I don't know anything about the who, what, where or why of FL and I've been here a pretty damn long time. I have no personal connection to the people that operate FL. That's a problem. I don't know who owns FL. I don't know where FL is hosted. Is it even American? Is it Canadian? Is it ...

I want to be informed, but silencing those who question, well, we have a saying in my family, "More talk is better than less talk."

HERE IS THE PROBLEM: Culture is not promoted between players Outside of Game. Where is the camaraderie? Where are the ice cream socials? Where are the trips to Bangkok?

When I was a youth, several friends and I played a MUD via dial-up. And at each MUD Anniversary the IMMS had the so-called "Nerd Bowl" where all the players were invited to meet, greet, play some football and get sloshed. Many a player had their first beer at Nerd Bowl. Several traveled thousands of miles.

It was a real community, and fostered by the MUD's Staff (the owners).

I don't see that here. Perhaps ice cream socials aren't so popular these days, but I do know one thing: People wanna belong and finding like-minded people to belong with is beautiful.

Now. If the Staff wishes to be unreachable, unapproachable as pseudonyms that's cool. I respect privacy. Yet, I have to wonder:

Who OWNS The Forsaken Lands? I mean really, who pays the bills. Who chooses the servers? And if you (the owner) are going to be so protective of a 10 pbase game, then geez... you gotta change that culture. THAT CULTURE IS YOU. You've gotta open up so that the pbase opens up and celebrates not only your efforts, your charity but the vast talent pool of players.

This is all on your plate Owner. You are the cultural architect, because you moderate it, shape and ban it as you see necessary.

Thanks for your ears, I really respect the wonderful IG interactions I've had. Outside of game, not so much. And THAT is the issue.

Culture starts with the King.

ขอให้โชคดี!!

[Anume]

Re Bavarian:

The problem with any mud meetings (which are great, fully agree here) is that our current playbase is spread over several continents (Europe, America, Asia mostly) so any face to face meeting would be near to impossible for financial reasons alone.

Your ban was lifted almost immediately after it was invoked (I think somewhat like 4 hours later). We all make mistakes sometimes and the Imm in question misjudged the situation, thinking you implied something that you did not (I think that all the Imms were cheating or something, I'd have to check to be sure.) If you are still sour about that 4 hour ban, I apologize.

As to ownership, I suppose that is Zhokril and myself now.

[Volgathras]

Improving our online community was the aim of the original CMT. Part of it was compiling information and making it available, but it's intention was to improve what -I- believe to be the major downside of our mud - how we relate to each other.

Now that doesn't mean I think yall are *******s or anything, but many of complaints we get as administrators is how people are treated OUTSIDE of the game, and/or how their reputations have a negative impact in an OOC way in game. I wanted to fix that, because I think we do have a family of creative, passionate people... who fail to communicate with each other appropriately.

Unfortunately that aspect of the CMT never bore any fruit, despite our efforts. We hosted a community activity or two that went largely ignored. While I never did the legwork to find out definitively WHY, I came to the belief that no one participated because there weren't any benefits in doing it. If you won a poetry contest, who cares? It wont further my character. Since we couldn't offer anything, it ended up we couldn't really do anything to foster community in those ways. I personally -love- the idea of an FL get-together, but as mentioned its impossible considering how far-flung we are.

That said: I would LOVE to hear the communities thoughts on the points I just mentioned regarding community activities. Community and improvement of the game-world feel has been my personal goal as an administrator. If someone/everyone could provide input on HOW we could motivate the community to actually care about community activities we'd try again. Just remember:

-It has to be something most of the community can get involved in (break dancing is cool, but I doubt the majority of us are capable).

-We can't offer in-game benefits for OOC behavior.

-Any prizes have to be almost if not completely costless (we thought about creating FL merchandise, but it's expensive to manufacture and ship, and would come completely out of the staff's pocket - which is something we can't afford. I'm broke as ****).

To be honest, I've been floating the idea of reinstating the CMT, but the issues I've outlined have me thinking it will suffer the same failure as last time.

[Akoz]

Whats CMT? =p Country Music Television just doesn't seem to fit....

[Volgathras]

Community Managers Team

http://forum.theforsakenlands.org/showthread.php?t=25126

[Akoz]

That is sweet...

[The-Nameless]

personally I have met a handful of FL players, and developed what I consider good friendships with several more. I will also say there are a few of you I would punch in the face given the opportunity . But that is human interaction to a T. You like some, you hate some. Can't expect more than that.