Yiznip

[egreir]

Getting old will do that to you, Zaewyn.

[Twinblades713]

I completely understand what you mean. Veigar will straight **** on you, but over time he does much less damage because he has to land his burst right. Cassiopeia does a retarded amount of damage, but since it's a DoT you have time to react, since she's so much stronger. Therefore she has more damage potential but the tradeoff there is that you have chances to get healed through various means. To apply the analogy to FL, Lotus Scourge should do much more damage since it's a DoT Ninjutsu unlike doublesheath which offers that burst that won't give your opponent a chance to cure. You're either dead or not dead from the throw. Lotus Scourge simply allows too much breathing room for the value it brings to the table for ninjas.

[KRins]

I completely understand what you mean. Veigar will straight **** on you' date=' but over time he does much less damage because he has to land his burst right. Cassiopeia does a retarded amount of damage, but since it's a DoT you have time to react, since she's so much stronger. Therefore she has more damage potential but the tradeoff there is that you have chances to get healed through various means. To apply the analogy to FL, Lotus Scourge should do much more damage since it's a DoT Ninjutsu unlike doublesheath which offers that burst that won't give your opponent a chance to cure. You're either dead or not dead from the throw. Lotus Scourge simply allows too much breathing room for the value it brings to the table for ninjas.[/quote']

You know me so well. That's EXACTLY what I am getting at. I could instantly melt someone's face... or have to do it over this window. Unfortunately, every single person in FL can heal... which isn't possible in other games. In League, if you aren't one of a select few... a health pot (the best option for a curative) won't heal faster than Cass's poison. Everyone here can cure crit like a cleric. Lotus Scourge should just do outrageous amounts of damage more than it can to make it viable... or prevent regen from all sources... something to actually make it worth having it around. It simply isn't any better than things other classes can do or other ninjitsu can do. Plague punches lotus scourge poison directly in the face concerning damage. And... it can just be cast, at 1 round of lag, by shamans with lag mitigation. If you are going to create an attrition angle, it has to actually... wear someone down. People carry ignite in League for a reason... because it can do very meaningful damage as well as reduce incoming healing. Lotus scourge simply doesn't do enough. You can just eat your backpack full of nymph hearts and be perfectly fine. It shouldn't be an option to eat a common curative and EASILY out heal the incoming damage. Stopping to eat a nymph heart should be a misstep, not the answer to the question. A couple rounds of specifically spec'd into poison should out damage that random little thing everyone can pick up with zero risk or at least carry some additional facet to make it truly DEADLY as opposed to an annoyance. If that stuff killed Cormac it is because he was strongly considering suicide before the fact.

[Spark215]

I never use nymph hearts.. Guess I should start!

[Twinblades713]

NOW, if Lotus Scourge removed incoming healing, even at the strength it had now... THAT would be dope. No healing while poisoned or limited, say half, find a way to cure it or find a corner to hide in. It wouldn't even have to be strengthened really other than that.

[Mmm Coffee]

Not being able to heal while Lotus Scourged would be insane. Especially in the cabal standard getting/retrieving scenario. Kill cabal guardian, low HP, drained, Lotus Scourge ninja pops out and poisons you...now you can't heal?

[Twinblades713]

Something besides being a terrible lore ninjitsu would be better than... being a terrible ninjitsu.

If not that, then what? It was changed from stacking massive damage before. It still doesn't work on many, many enemies. It is generally ignorable for most classes that CAN be affected by it. What is the point of selectable paths when only two of them are worth considering? I have my own opinions that may differ but, from the majority of people I've heard about them, Falcon Eye and Doublesheath are the only lore worth mentioning.

[KRins]

Not being able to heal while Lotus Scourged would be insane. Especially in the cabal standard getting/retrieving scenario. Kill cabal guardian' date=' low HP, drained, Lotus Scourge ninja pops out and poisons you...now you can't heal?[/quote']

I am not seeing how this is any worse than a Falcon Eye just chilling and watching you in cabal warfare and then assassinating you. It still doesn't have the freaky burst of an auto throw + murder round + auto throw on the flee outright smashing you in the face fatally either. I used it and really found it lacking even compared to shadow arts. Celerity outright called it worthless. She's smart... and I felt the pain, we might have a little bit of a point. I'm not saying no healing at all is the answer... but something to make it a little more viable would be nice in my eyes. He's deleted so it isn't even an attempt to get buffed, it just... isn't a smart selection right now.

[Mmm Coffee]

Making the poison itself very hard to heal, even through town/cabal healers, should be one change.

The poison should also lower max health over time, increasing every tick, and be based on a percentage of the character's max health. After 1 hour, -2.5% health, 2 hours -5%, etc...maxing out at 25%.

[KRins]

Making the poison itself very hard to heal, even through town/cabal healers, should be one change.

The poison should also lower max health over time, increasing every tick, and be based on a percentage of the character's max health. After 1 hour, -2.5% health, 2 hours -5%, etc...maxing out at 25%.

Now that would be SOOOOO dope! How long would the max hp penalty last though? Duration of the poison? Little longer to account for the convalescence period? Flesh it out man, because I really like this idea.

[Mmm Coffee]

I think it should last for the duration of the poison if the poison is made difficult to cure. Being unable to cure means unable to regen moves conventionally. The optimal end-result for a LS ninja would be a victim with -25% max health + poison damage + no moves...and hopefully out of gyvels.

I also think LS ninjas should be able to envenom either their blades or fired weapons as was previously suggested, but run the risk of poisoning themselves if an attack is countered.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure how long the poison lasts, but the max HP reduction would occur before the poison wears off. It would just scale, -2.5, -5, -10, -15, -25%. If the poison lasts 10 hours, you'd then have 4-5 hours at -25% HP.

[f0xx]

I also think LS ninjas should be able to envenom either their blades or fired weapons

Isn't this possible already? Cel?

[mya]

Everyone here can cure crit like a cleric. Lotus Scourge should just do outrageous amounts of damage more than it can to make it viable... or prevent regen from all sources... ... Plague punches lotus scourge poison directly in the face concerning damage. And... it can just be cast' date=' at 1 round of lag, by shamans with lag mitigation. If you are going to create an attrition angle, it has to actually... wear someone down. You can just eat your backpack full of nymph hearts and be perfectly fine. It shouldn't be an option to eat a common curative and EASILY out heal the incoming damage. Stopping to eat a nymph heart should be a misstep, not the answer to the question.[/quote']

I think some of you are mistaking poison function as one of damage dealer.

Poison is not a damage dealer mechanic.

• It's a scratch-er to prevent hiding-camo-invis-other.

• It's a regen debuffer.

• A minor STR debuffer.

• A minor HP damage dealer.

An plague main function is complete regen prevention. And crescent Damage dealer. So that one forgets it's there, and then is out of moves and taking damage after damage.

Perhaps a "fix" for Lotus scourge would be to have it grant Plague.

Ninjas can Blind dust, Poison Dust and now Lotus dust (plague).

Perhaps also increase all 3 Mals to Shaman level .

Although I think this would make it a very powerful Ninjitsu. Perhaps even the most OP jiujitsu.

[Twinblades713]

Perhaps even the most OP jiujitsu.

I'm talkin about Gogoplatas and sh!t.

[egreir]

From spider guard

[KRins]

From spider guard

Real men hit a climbing arm bar from the thai clinch.

Mya is right that poison does all those things, but to consciously not have access to the other, more common ninjitsu LS doesn't put your poison head and shoulders above theirs unless you can make it stack several times. Issues being a rather low chance to land it, the fact ninjas can't mitigate lag outside of AC, and the fact poison smoke will NEVER stack with any poison whatsoever. I really don't think plague would make sense... how could they possibly just contain a deadly microbe? I mean... its a fairly complex thing to do with modern technology.

[mya]

Antrahx.

Just name it anything like Wraith Blood, Virigoth's Seed, Death's Touch, BlackSpore, Heartsbane.

Just imagine you delivering this extremely rare fungus as a dust gridded on a bowl.

Desiese poison is pretty low tech stuff. Medivial British used to soak their swords in the latrine pits to give scratchs that would kill you with infections.

[KRins]

Alright... I'll give you that. I didn't think of fungal infection. I was like... how the hell am I supposed to safely carry around a packet of E. Bola...

[The-Nameless]

Did Mya just suggest the next ninja lore is jock itch?

[KRins]

Did Mya just suggest the next ninja lore is jock itch?

Don't act like an instantaneous stealth jock itch from the crotch of satan wouldn't COMPLETELY ruin your day.

I just don't know about plague though... it has a potential to work against the ninja, as far as driving him out of hiding on the tick if he catches it from his victim. I'm a lot more partial to mmm beer's max hp penalty or cel's paralyze idea.

[Celerity]

No, lotus scourge can't be used to envenom fired weapons. You can, of course, get poisoned fired weapons in different ways (two ways?).

I like the plague idea..easy to code, fits the lore, not terribly overpowered, but certainly useful. On the downside, seems similar to blackspore (thief mechanism)...

The problem that is being ignored here is that poison itself is a detriment to rogue tactics, so it has to overcome that as well as being useful.

Just like the shield lore needs to be stronger than other weapon lores because shields are inherently worse than weapons and result in the loss in fired weapons. So it has to compensate for those losses in addition to being a good lore.

[mya]

I would like to remember that non shaman plague is -5 STR.

This on a class that can hide/sneak and put people to sleep vs saves.

If we are talking about shaman grade plague... watch out.

And remember I also said to bump all their mals to shaman level.

And I have to say Blackspore is the best thief trap . What ever it does, which we cannot discuss.