Pali Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I thought to be a rather interesting video. It's a talk at TEDxWomen 2012 by Anita Sarkeesian, a feminism-focused Youtuber, discussing the reactions she received after she began doing a project consisting of a series of videos examining the presentation and treatment of women in video games. The amount and intensity (and organization) of harassment she received for daring to do so may surprise you... as might the amount of support she received. edit: Runtime of the video is about 10 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I strongly dislike this girl. She dodges valid criticisms of her work by hiding behind the fact that she has a vagina. Six months after her kickstarter, and she still has not produced any of the videos she was raising money for in the first place. About the only thing she's an expert at is media manipulation and playing victim. And I can't stand victims. My position probably shouldn't surprise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Not being really familiar with her beyond this video and knowing tidbits of backstory, I can't comment on whether or not she dodges criticisms. As for the Kickstarter, the page for her project on Kickstarter makes zero promises of quick videos, and instead does the opposite: "Creating these videos take a lot of time and money to produce. I will be researching and playing hundreds of titles from across the gaming industry..." From what I can tell, the idea isn't to simply play a game and analyze it, but to make videos regarding recurring tropes (her word) in video games, each of which would require playing numerous games to get a decent sample size. Not a short-term project. And no, that you're accusing her of simply playing victim when she's been being harassed doesn't surprise me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 She was probably begging to be harassed. :0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 And no, that you're accusing her of simply playing victim when she's been being harassed doesn't surprise me at all. It's that attitude that is exactly the problem. There are trolls on the internet, everyone knows that. There are ways to handle that and make them go away. Instead, she chose to feed the trolls, encourage them, and then use the backlash to further her own goals and make money of off them. "Oh poor me, I'm a helpless girl and I can't handle this harassment won't everyone feel sorry for me and sympathize with my great and harrowing plight". Do any other girls actually relate to her? Not from what I've been able to tell. If anything, she hurts the 'feminist' movement more than she helps it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I've never heard of her before, but a big negative for milking publicity from this, especially with her style of speaking. The 'hate campaign' is probably much more beneficial for her than causing her any harm...and it looks like she knows it. I trust her about as much as I did the guy asking for money to kill Kony in Africa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 *sigh* The purpose of this post was not to be a discussion of Sarkeesian herself, but of the broader issue of misogyny in gamer/online culture that she was attempting to bring light to. Apparently, we'd rather discuss how the situation has benefited this one person than how it affects or reflects the larger picture. Never mind then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Yea, get outta here ya troublemaker. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 *sigh* The purpose of this post was not to be a discussion of Sarkeesian herself' date=' but of the broader issue of misogyny in gamer/online culture that she was attempting to bring light to. Apparently, we'd rather discuss how the situation has benefited this one person than how it affects or reflects the larger picture. Never mind then.[/quote'] Well, the video you posted is just her talking about how much she's been victimized, thus the course of discussion. In fact, she has done little in the way of actual research into the area you mention, despite her constant claims that she's "going to do it". If you want to talk about the latter, there are better, substantive starting points to post. It's nothing to get upset about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Well' date=' the video you posted is just her talking about how much she's been victimized, thus the course of discussion...If you want to talk about the latter, there are better, substantive starting points to post.[/quote'] Fair points... however, the reception of this video here mirrors the receptions I've seen regarding many other attempts to discuss this and similar topics over the years in many places: focusing on the person attempting to discuss the issue rather than the issue itself, treating attempts to discuss the issue by pointing to how it has affected the speaker personally as attention-grabbing and seeking victim-status, etc. It's interesting to me how often that when someone is mistreated, particularly in a way that happens very commonly, if an attempt to draw attention to the wrongness of that mistreatment ends up benefiting that person, the focus of so many almost immediately shifts away from the mistreatment and onto the fact that this person happened to gain from it in the long run. It's the "well, of course she's getting treated that way, and now she's complaining about it, and hey, she gets paid to complain more about it so what's her problem?" reaction that I am not a fan of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 That's why you don't make your case based on a personal story....because the only thing that will be focused on is the person. If she were serious, she'd have some talking points. I agree with her message in essence, but all she did to forward that message was show the one pic with the game characters. Everything else was just a personal aside... Same story here in FL. If you just got destroyed by xx combo, you don't argue that xx combo is imbalanced because it destroyed you. Regardless if you are right or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 That's why you don't make your case based on a personal story....because the only thing that will be focused on is the person. A fair point, though I'm not always happy about that tending to be the case either. Anecdotes have their uses, especially when it comes to getting people emotionally involved with a subject and therefore more likely to be motivated to act in some way regarding it... but I'll certainly grant that more facts wouldn't hurt her presentation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Metroid is one of my video game series, and Samus Aran is far and away the best character to come out of Nintendo. At least until Other M... they wrecked her character in Other M. Samus Aran was originally a badass first and foremost, and the fact that she was a female was secondary at best. Other M changed it so that she's a female first and foremost (an emotionally stunted one at that, with boobs!)... and it could possibly be argued that she's still a badass. Honestly though, I'd argue that has more to do with Japanese culture and their view of the role of women and their infatuation with breasts than it does any perceived misogyny in US culture. Women are treated far more fairly in media here than in any other country I've been in, except maybe Australia. I'll still pick Samus nine times out of ten in Smash Bros... I just won't be happy when she loses her suit and enters gimp mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I actually fully agree that the US is often better at dealing with the lingering patriarchal influences in our society than many other places, including our media and our gaming. That doesn't mean we couldn't still be better. "At least we're better than they are" isn't a reassuring statement to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Better than everyone else is literally the best possible situation in a world where perfection isn't possible. Could we do more? Sure. Could the rest of the world catch up? Better believe it. I mean... is it not the exact reverse issue to have huge, muscular shirtless men in video games? I feel bad because I'm not some steroid jacked slab of meat. Just because it is socially acceptable for a man to walk around without a shirt on, doesn't make it less ok because a woman can't really get away with strolling around in a bra... oh wait.. bikinis... Is that the next argument? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 A wise man once said, "Women have equal rights with men, it's just not in their favor to use them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Better than everyone else is literally the best possible situation in a world where perfection isn't possible. Could we do more? Sure. You do realize that you contradict your first sentence with the two that follow, I hope? I mean... is it not the exact reverse issue to have huge, muscular shirtless men in video games? No, it is not, because of the context: there is a history and enduring influence of patriarchal ideology in our culture, and the positions of men and women in our society remain unequal, though far better than they used to be. However, to be clear, I object to both, and I think them strongly related. Edit: You're right that if all else were equal, it'd be the absolute equivalent - but all are not and never were equal. I feel bad because I'm not some steroid jacked slab of meat. You also probably don't worry about being raped when you go out alone on dates. Just because it is socially acceptable for a man to walk around without a shirt on, doesn't make it less ok because a woman can't really get away with strolling around in a bra... oh wait.. bikinis... Is that the next argument? Hey, I'm perfectly fine with public nudity being legal for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted December 7, 2012 Implementor Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 You guys in the US are weird. Nothing unusual here if a woman walks around without a bra / bikini on at one of the bathing lakes here in summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ah, Anume, remember that the Puritans left Europe to come here. Haven't existed under that name for centuries, but in the country that pioneered the separation of church and state, we're still stuck with plenty of very old and religiously-based ideas regarding modesty enshrined in law and culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Volgathras Posted December 7, 2012 Implementor Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I think she brings up a fair point about the specific situation in the US that, in part, leads to these sorts of arguments. And I'll get to that in a minute. Let me preface by saying that women in video games are stereotyped from the game characters themselves to the 'girl gamer' demographic, I won't defend that except to say that until very recently in a very young market the vast majority of consumers were young males. Also, this is the same reason why by and large the male protagonists (and often antagonists) of video games are attractive as well; people would rather play and pretend to be someone good looking rather than someone normal. We play games to get out of the real world. In fact, I'm struggling to think of many examples of video game characters who aren't good looking (note; I'm talking about human or humanoid characters... Monsters, obviously, have no bearing here). Sex sells, and the people who made video games aren't the first to come up with this idea either. T.V. shows, movies, magazines, musicians, artists of all sorts, even politicians to a degree, models, TEACHERS, and on and on all suffer from this same issue. I think it's short-sighted to pile on video games for an issue that's systemic in our culture. And then to go further, how much of that is down-right misogyny, and how much of that is the particular cultural bend of our country? As mentioned by Anume, sex in vast swaths of the world is not stigmatized as much as it is here. Not NEARLY as much. I'd have to go through and research specifically, but I'm willing to bet they don't have the vehement arguments we do in the states about these issues. I like to think this is not because women are completely marginalized in these places, but because they don't equate pixilated tits to women-hating. Now again, I agree that this is an issue that should be addressed because, frankly, some people perceive this as a problem. Irregardless of the true reasoning behind it, if people are so upset as to complain en mass, it should be changed. It's not like reducing breast-size and throwing some more clothes on Taki will undermine our 'god-given' rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Ok, I watched the video.... no boobs? Disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Nameless Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 You know, I wrote a HUGE response to this. Then realized I don't care about this woman in the slightest, or the idiotic nature she is attempting to argue her points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 I havn't watched the video, but there is absolutely misogyny in videogames. Likewise, there is ultra-violence, torture, rape, and virtual depictions of crime and atrocity. In my opinion, any research into this topic should focus on what, if any, effects such games have on human development and mental health. This reminds me of the discussions, post-columbine, about the quake series of first person shooters and their role in teen violence. The public had knee-jerk reactions in both directions: Quake caused the massacre vs. quake had nothing to do with the massacre. I havn't seen any credible research on the topic. Personally, I have mixed feelings about it. One thing seems clear: Violence and misogyny in entertainment media and in real life is here to stay. That's the world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Nameless Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 The thing is it is driven by the private sector. People want to see nudity, and violence, and edgy material. If you want a completely player driven game they have Sims. Personally I want to swing a sword, toss a spell, save the girl, and loot the dungeon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Just because it is unlikely I would be raped when walking alone doesn't mean I wouldn't be mugged, shot, stabbed, or victim of any other violent crime. I actually don't think my sentences undermine each other. We, as society, aren't God. We aren't perfect. It applies to literally everything else we do better than everyone else but not someone's theoretical idea of perfect. There is a history in this country that I as a white male have serious advantages... but guess what? I don't. There is a real concept of reverse racism. Have you ever seen a scholarship specifically designed for white males from suburbia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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