Mali Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Don't blame the victim. Let's keep it classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 and the fact that basically everyone thinks I'm badass. If you can't see it' date=' your blindness isn't my fault.[/quote'] wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinblades713 Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 I think we'll work on Cel's reception of sarcasm next. This thread cracks me all the way up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 I think we'll we'll work on Cel's reception of sarcasm next. You my boy. Love ya, Cel... but you got literal where I've abandoned it a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 You' date=' yourself, stated they on more than one occasion have gone out with gentlemen they felt the need to arrange a safety check against. You said that.[/quote'] No. I said that they regularly do so when they go on dates period. They have done so when going out with guys that are friends of mine that I have great respect for... because they know from experience that being a good guy doesn't mean that you are incapable of rape in all situations. Because one of them (I don't know and never asked the details of the other's rape) was raped by someone she'd been friends with for years, who everybody thought of as a perfectly decent guy, who decided after a few drinks on their fifth date that he was entitled to some action because clearly she had to be down if she was still going out with him and was cool with making out. You have no clue what the hell you are talking about, Mr. Badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'tarako Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 'Personally I think anita is just trying to make bank like everyone else. Stereotypes exist. In every form of story media they exist. Novels, T.V. shows, movies, comics, games, etc. Why? Because they make stories easier to write and characters more relateable. Are there original characters out there? Yes. Is the rest of the world generally filled with certain types of characters? Yes. A side issue. Was it wrong for her to be the subject of hate mail and comments and such? Yes, most definitely. Does this make her special on the internet? No. Individuals get targeted all the time, Anon does random stuff because it can. Heck, you can get a large group of people from any forum to attack any other forum or blogger or whoever online if you make them think that they are being attacked by that "other". Her being a woman does not make her special in that regard. You do things people don't like, they'll threaten you. Sheesh, last presidential election we had people in states threatening to secede, lol. Back on topic. The idea of just looking at how women are betrayed in video games in not a truly fair or objective look at stereotypes in general. Men are stereotyped too. the hero, the bad guy, the turn coat, the side kick, blah blah blah. Any of those roles can be male or female. Or robot, or animal. Or demon. The point being that I don't think she would subjectively look at the stereotypes in general, I feel she would only look at games that proved her point. Which is fine, but it gives people the wrong idea. I'm not saying there aren't games which don't use the frail female as a plot device, it's just another stereotype. And since the target audience is still a majority young male, most with hero complexes, most probably socially awkward or wanting that "epic hero payment (land, title, the princess, etc), thats what the game designers put in. Some games, like Dragon Age, stray away from that. You can play male or female, try and woo males or females, and then summarily sleep with as many of them as you can finagle, as you like. I could be wrong on this but isn't misogyny the hate, distrust, or violence towards women? I'm not for sure I see how having a goal for the main character in a game is misogynistic? If it is, why target video games? It has been a trope in movies for far longer. And in stories even longer than that. Idk. I'm not a super big fan of people that only want to show one side of a story and twist it to make it mean what they want. Honestly, it's super easy to make any situation mean whatever you want to make it mean, if you twist it the right way. meh. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 *sigh* Not doing it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 They have valid points. Not sure why you feel the need to "do" anything at all. Just let it be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'tarako Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 'I was just trying to facilitate bringing the thread back around to the main topic and not the pali vs krins slug fest. ^__^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/09/black-in-america-its-not-just-about-the-color-of-your-skin/ #derailed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'tarako Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 'I hate hashtags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Haha just starting using twitter to keep up with MMA and Poker .... gotta practice my hash tagging! So far I've had Stephen Thompson and D. Cruickshank talk to me. Its fun I guess. During TV commercials lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'tarako Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 'Fair enough. haha. I find some peoples tweets to be funny, I'm just not big on hashtagging in places where it doesn't matter. Its pretty cool how creative people can be with, what 170 characters? Side note, I'm studying for a groundwater hydrology exam. Ever wonder where some of the periodic tables symbols come from? Like why Hg for mercury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Yes, it keeps me up at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'tarako Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 'Or why isn't there a j on the table?!?! no j anywhere. Why are they j-ist?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Playing old school FF games on my phone....yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 'I was just trying to facilitate bringing the thread back around to the main topic and not the pali vs krins slug fest. ^__^ Wasn't meant to be a knock at you, apologies... simply that there are a number of things you said that I'd usually happily argue against to some degree or another, but quite frankly, the aforementioned slug fest has exhausted my desire to continue the discussion. edit: Part of the reason I said "not doing it again" was that, from my perspective, some of the root issues I have with things you said are the same ones that have popped up in the discussion with KRins (ex. my position that while male objectification in gaming is from an absolute standpoint the same thing as female objectification, the cultural context changes things sufficiently that the female objectification is more objectionable). Regardless of that, you have my appreciation for sticking to the original intended topic and doing so in broader strokes. P.S. If you really want me to expand on my thinking regarding your post, toss me a PM with it and I'll respond in a couple days or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 French fries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Hamburgers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demiterracotta Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Wasn't meant to be a knock at you' date=' apologies... simply that there are a number of things you said that I'd usually happily argue against to some degree or another, but quite frankly, the aforementioned slug fest has exhausted my desire to continue the discussion. edit: Part of the reason I said "not doing it again" was that, from my perspective, some of the root issues I have with things you said are the same ones that have popped up in the discussion with KRins (ex. [b']my position that while male objectification in gaming is from an absolute standpoint the same thing as female objectification, the cultural context changes things sufficiently that the female objectification is more objectionable). Regardless of that, you have my appreciation for sticking to the original intended topic and doing so in broader strokes. Curious about the bolded part Pali. I know you're exhausted and whatnot. If the goal of Feminism is to make both genders equal, wouldn't the ultimate goal be to make both culturally unacceptable? And if that is the case why not crusade to remove the stereotyping from BOTH genders as opposed to just one? Just seems to me that a good starting point is to start at 0 instead of starting at 50 and working backwards, start at the beginning and make it ALL equal. Less realistic things have been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 Made homemade sweet potato fries and burgers yesterday. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 If the goal of Feminism is to make both genders equal' date=' wouldn't the ultimate goal be to make both culturally unacceptable? And if that is the case why not crusade to remove the stereotyping from BOTH genders as opposed to just one?[/quote'] You're absolutely right about the ultimate goal - make such stereotyping in any way be deemed unacceptable, whether it be anti-female, anti-male, anti-trans, anti-white, anti-black, anti-gay, etc. (not feminism's goal per se, but mine). From my point of view, however, this is right in the same way that KRins is right - both are wrong, but it ignores that the wrong on one side has disproportionate effects compared to the wrong on the other side due to historical and cultural context, and the former therefore demands more attention than the latter, at least for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demiterracotta Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 But if we don't have stereotyping, what will happen to all the hipsters? :eek: I do agree with your points, but being unfamiliar with most of these things (I in my life have not run into many of the things talked about in this thread fortunately.) I just wanted some clarification, because there do exist feminists out there whose goal is to make the female gender the supreme be-all instead of striving for equality. Which is I think why some people find the message hard to swallow, if instead of striving for total equality, you are striving for inequality on your side it turns into a hate fight. And I think that is part of the message that is often lost, it's not about trying to make themselves better than anyone else, it's about making the playing field level instead of full of hills and cliffs and those damn sand traps that mario golf makes me hit the ball into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 If certain individual females don't like how their sex is being portrayed in video games, then they need to develop the skills to do something about it! As long as video game development is dominated by men, like all tech/science sectors are, then feminists are largely shouting into the wind. With the excepting being that a game come along that did something so misogynistic and created a big enough backlash among a female demographic that it actually hurt the publisher's profits, but I don't see anything that extreme occurring anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'tarako Posted December 10, 2012 Report Share Posted December 10, 2012 'Off topic: I've tried to make homemade sweet potato fries but I could never get them to actually be crispy. On topic: Pali, what was the original intent of the thread/perhaps the topic you wanted discussed? From the thread title I would assume it was that of how gamers belittle women, or call other gamers women for mistakes, etc. If a girl is gaming saying make me a sandwich, get back to the kitchen, etc. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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