Change log May

[Brehan]

Jesus christ what ever happened to playing the game. Did you need to know the code of the game to play Skyrim, were you an expert on all the pen and paper out of the book d and d by knowing all the books cover to cover? When you were outside playing with your friends did you see everything in math and knew what exactly to do to win at red light green light using terrain body weight of other players vs your own blah blah blah blah blah whatever.

Play the damn game please, none of these code based fin things is what brought us all here anyway, we all came for our own reasons and code and math had not a damn thing to do with it. This is just stupid and personally I dont know half the crap you all do and I still play. I love it here with all of you and enjoy the game immensly. Time and time again have wanted to leave but something always brings me back and or changes my mind and that is the fact I love to play the game because it is a game I dont need to know nothing more then that personally but i guess some of us are just super nerds.

[Brehan]

And on a side note for those of you that actually liked the changes to armor weapons in Avalon well you are welcome.

[Atticus]

Well, I'm lost on the red light green light tactic reference. I see both sides, personally I have looked at the code I acquired AMD its helped me out immensely due do some skills being very factor based. Being that some have been here since beta, 1.0 ect... Years.... It would help even out the playing field to those inclined to look at it. Oh well, we all know such knowledge is meant to be elitist any how.

[Iyorvin]

we all came for our own reasons and code and math had not a damn thing to do with it. This is just stupid and personally I dont know half the crap you all do and I still play.

I'm telling you flat out, you are wrong. I came here specifically because the code was better than the alternative. The creativity and execution at the start of FL is what brought me to this game, when I had not yet settled on any other game. I tried many MUDS before CHOOSING FL because of the superior code, active changes, and enforced RP/PK, where the RISK offered a great reward. I STAYED at FL because of that, and when the MUD lost Viri, and then Behrens, and we lost active coding, there was not enough changes, fixes, or potential to keep me playing consistently. I got frustrated at bugs that had no date to be fixed because we had no coder. The content at 50 became redundant and I moved on. I came back once a year for a month or two, to get my role playing fill, then grew bored very fast. I hope that now this isn't the case.

I'd like to reiterate my points a tad. I don't feel that blatant code sharing is what we need, but some more liberal help files would be very nice to help lesson the gap(I would have no issue helping with this). Furthermore, it isn't for me I'm arguing this for. I already know MUCH MORE than most, if not ALL, the players I have ever had a conversation with(perhaps not so much now). I have an extreme advantage over the competition when it comes to how mechanics work. You chose FL for your reasons, I chose FL for mine. Neither is right or wrong, and I would hope that this conversation can remain a conversation and not get emotional. There is no need for crying, or complaining, and at the end of the day the IMP's will choose what direction to go and either live or die with those choices(in regards to the life of the MUD), and it would appear they are not too keen on changing that mind set.

Six or more years ago you can pull up my own rants about how I wanted to horde this information. How I worked for it. How I died OVER AND OVER AND OVER to learn it. I would of been right here on your side telling FOXX TO STFU, because I painfully learned those lessons. The fact is, we had 25-30 players on at a time at certain times back then. We had newer players coming and were not so concerned with most of them leaving because we had a loyal, strong, and time abundant playerbase. We don't have those luxuries anymore.

Now, once again, I dont' want the code. I just want a strong healthy game with more people to interact with at 50. That's my concern. I want a healthy 50 game, where the content won't get stale and enough plots are rolling to keep my interest. Don't tell me to make them myself, because without players to involve plots are very hard to pull off. And to be frank, if the game remains stagnant I will take my break again this year and you wont' hear from me for another 10 months until the game is fresh enough to pull me back in and offer me something.

Lastly, I have a hard time with these conversations because confrontation gives me anxiety. . I get stressed when people disagree with me and get angry about it, and I get scared that expressing myself in emotional posts like this will end up punishing me in game(I am not accusing anyone of this, it's just a fear I have). However, I would hate to sit here and cry and complain to the imm staff about certain things without offering any and all help I can muster. So if there is anything I can do, by all means, ask me. Keep on being awesome though. I can say one thing for the current IMM staff. I have never had faster responses to concerns EVER. Since VIRI left, i've never had more FAIR and great interaction in game. I've never had better dealings with any troubles happening in game, nor have I never seen so much understanding with regards to dealings in game and out of game. I have no fear we are on a good direction now, and would never want to discourage any of you in any of my posts, because some very good things have been happening.

[Anume]

If you think some help files are too vague, by all means post a suggestion for a changed version on prayer. I think if you look at how information was treated a couple years back and how it is now, anyone will have to agree that we are a lot less restrictive now.

[tassinvegeta]

Soweet! Looks like everything is working out.

[Volgathras]

Well, This was a fun read.

I'll make just a few statements and observations here because we all know that, frankly, people only give half a damn about their own opinions, and there's entirely too much for us to be doing than defending policy.

First, there isn't anything discussed here that hasn't been discussed to death over and over again. Rehashing old arguments by way of a simple 'oh by the way' is fine, but turning a thread of changes - which I would hope shows you we DO listen to the players and make decisions based on what they want - in to our own personal rant-space really just works against you. Bringing it up again and again just makes the staff feel unappreciated.

I find it interesting that the part you all have chosen to nit-pick over is 'availability of information,' hiding behind idealistic 'concern' for the game when - let's be honest - is powergaming tendencies in disguise. There are several lines in the change log which are very vague indeed, but have been mentioned maybe twice by the pbase ('The world have become slightly more sinister' - and no gives a damn). Where people get their panties in a wad is when we don't give them more specific information how better to kill their fellow man. So let's call this here what it is - an attempt to simplify the game mechanics so you have an (imagined) advantage over the people too 'lazy' to read the code and learn.

I personally believe the powergaming culture is a detriment to our game, and while it is up to the game moderators as a whole, I will not support efforts to strip away the mystery of the game for the profit of people who only want to know so they can use it to their advantage. Yes, I realize that FL is a competitive game, but our job as administrators is to make sure there is an even playing field. Revealing game information doesn't do that.

And you know, looking at this response.. it just doesn't feel worth it. I'll post it here, but won't go into it any further, because m reasons and sentiment have been sufficiently expressed.

[Twinblades713]

The eternal struggle!

[J.Twendrist]

Just play the game and have fun lol. What's the point in knowing every little detail? It's a fantasy rp game..

[Trick]

^ Word.

[Iyorvin]

Ugh. Another long post deleted. I'm not going to have a discussion if the admin is going to be emotional about it, nothing productive will come of that.

I don't appreciate being told that my opinions have a hidden power gaming agenda. I've been a power gamer, for years. Hidden mechanics are a power gamers DREAM, because they are the ones who strive to discover every advantage. You know what I did on the Madness events in years past? I rolled every religion cleric to chart every divine intervention, bless arms, holy hands, bless, etc. I then did DK's, and didn't stop there. I went until my eyes bled trying to discover every single advantage I could. That's power gaming. The more information available does not help a true power gamer, it helps a lazy wannabe power gamer.

If this is an argument beaten to death, great. Just reiterate policy and direct the initial concerns to the prayer forum, because this discussion, at least on my end, was never intended to spark emotions in the admin. Your time is volunteered. It's been a rough month, and some tough time was put in. You deserve nothing but respect, but a fact regarding internet gaming, in another month no one will remember the hard work or the down time(unless it continues). A new player wont' even know what was put in, only what goes on now. A new player wont' read the entire forum to know a discussion was beaten to death, they will only see how current issues are handled in current threads that interest them.

[tassinvegeta]

Well actually, I've been wondering what 'the world has become more sinister means' ever since it's been posted, amongst other things. Maybe foreboding an rp plot? Darker emotes during day/night?

And the new player flags thing? What is that? Does it have something to do with red/blue player flags?

[Iyorvin]

Nothing was more sinister than putting on one of Volg's hats. I finally managed to get myself killed, but yelling about how great Volg was for two days was pretty funny.

[J.Twendrist]

Hell, even picking one up had you saying crazy stuff. lol

[Volgathras]

To be clear, my feelings weren't hurt. This discussion is mildly irritating at best. The aim of my post was to further illuminate the stance of the administration on this issue, which at this point has been weighed in by all three IMPs and at least one high-ranked moderator.

As for the current discussion, any newbie has the right and indeed is encouraged to ask their questions and make their comments publicly or in prayer - claiming to bring this up again and continuing to beat a dead horse for their benefit is simply false and illogical. And, for the record, attacking a staffers proffessionalism in public doesn't do much for our advertising either, or your argument. One cannot expect a group of volunteers to work efficiently and effectively if their players live by a doctrine of "no one cares what you do in the long run as long as you keep doing it", because the people who do put up with that sentiment get paid.

Trust me laries and gentlemen, if I were upset you'd have a long and detailed post about it, as you've seen in the past. This is just disappointment

Sorry, Volg, but I just - had - to restore this. You expressed my feelings about this thread better than I ever could.

- Anume

[Volgathras]

To be clear, i'm not upset. You guys know me well enough to know that id I were, there's be an exhaustive post addressing each point. Mildly irritating at best

[Ordaran]

Can't we all just get along?!?

[f0xx]

Oh, someone's pulling the "powergamer" card.

Ironically, I remember Zhokril pulled that one out last time when we asked to be able to pick werebeasts.

Yes' date=' I realize that FL is a competitive game, but our job as administrators is to make sure there is an even playing field. Revealing game information doesn't do that.[/quote']

I personally find that statement rather contradictive.

But I guess it's because I am a powergamer.

[Anume]

Fact is, very very few newbies go out and ask for the code.

(Btw, if someone is really interested in it, I am sure one of the vets who pulled viris code will share it with you. Just ask them to pm you.)

[f0xx]

My posts have nothing do with the code.

I have it, I've read it. I don't want you to post it.

The questions I asked, were not asked to get an answer to them. They were asked to make a point. Rhetorical questions. Examples.

I don't how to explain it better.

I will make another example.

When you were redesigning the perks, there was a list with a summery of how you wanted each perk to be, right? In that list, it was very well explained how each perk is supposed to work and there was no code in it.

Why not post this list in the wiki? (<--- again rhetorical question).

How many people actually know, there is a perk that helps with leveling malforms? With bash avoidance? With damage reduction? With calling beasts?

Why does this info have to be secret?

[Dale]

I for one didn't know that until recently, and it blew my mind.

[the_nightmare]

My posts have nothing do with the code.

I have it, I've read it. I don't want you to post it.

The questions I asked, were not asked to get an answer to them. They were asked to make a point. Rhetorical questions. Examples.

I don't how to explain it better.

I will make another example.

When you were redesigning the perks, there was a list with a summery of how you wanted each perk to be, right? In that list, it was very well explained how each perk is supposed to work and there was no code in it.

Why not post this list in the wiki? (<--- again rhetorical question).

How many people actually know, there is a perk that helps with leveling malforms? With bash avoidance? With damage reduction? With calling beasts?

Why does this info have to be secret?

To be honest I don't care about secret things, if I am interested of knowing something I am just going to PM the right person. This secrecy is very good (my opinion), because it rewards those that really want to know the game and to enhance themselves as better players. What bothers me is one main thing, the thing that bothers maybe 1/3 of the pbase, that the mud is very Imm dependant. This is such a boring game mechanic. You roll a character, you invest time in it to develop him, you have plans for your character then what happens?

level 15: immortal should notice you to approve your description ( I have waited 3 days for approve)

Level 30: if you want vampire, undead, demon, avatar ( sitting chatting with mobs and RP'ing for 50-100 hours to get approved - if the immortal is in the right mood of course)

Level 50: To get cabaled an immortal should notice you and not hate you personally( as a player). I have been in a clan, where I have fulfilled every requirements: quests, even killed member of the opposite cabals- elder, leader. I never got into the cabal I wanted to be, simply because It is me with my forum handle, the person behind the computer. I got into another situation aswell: I get into clan, not have done any quests, neither I have killed anyone, and I got an invitation for the cabal - WTF?

Level 50: Cabal promotions: Some immortals are in a mood, some are not. Every cabal immortal promotes different. Some are not even active.

You must understand that if you want new, fresh players, we must bring something on the table.This change is great, really great, but the waiting, sitting and idling is just horrible and boring. Not the mention the terrible attitude of some immortals towards the players.I know that it is hard to work with players:they do a lot of mistakes, cheat and complain and bla bla bla. Let's take for example any other MMORPG on the planet, even other muds. When you play any of them, do the players feel an immortal/administrator presense around them? NO. They just log in , play and they are not Immortal dependant.Admins/immortals are invisible guys that interfere in player's game only when they cheat or there is an RP session with Imm's involved.Only in FL i have seen an absurds like Immortal telling me how my character should act, behave, and talk. Only here an Immortal decides if I should play something or not.No I am not on a personal vendetta against the Immortals, I am complaining how the game mechanic is made to work. I have spoke with you Anume, you have told me that if you make the cabals to be runed by player, there will be a lot of OOC conflicts. What about now, when they are ran by Immortal's, aren't there any conflicts ( including OOC and players being favored by certain Immortals?)

[Erelei]

Guys, this isn't the place to bring up past hatred and anger. This is the Changes thread, where we posted our most recent changes.

We hear you. While demotivated over most of what you guys have to say, I'm inclined to make it a mission to make changes more interesting to read and more informable. Thank you all for your time.