inscribed Posted December 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 The joke was that you'd have enough money and clout to pull off a federal felony. Lol, well I haven't looked up the difference between misdemeanor and felony tax evasion, so I don't know if I'm at that level yet. It'll be interesting to see how the feds try to prosecute tax evasion on Bitcoin though. Luckily, I'll be able to afford a good lawyer if that time ever comes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 That's over an 11x profit you could of had in ~6 months' date=' just for doing a little research on a new technology, and taking a bit of a risk.[/quote'] Oh my friend, I've been following bitcoin back from the time when 1 BTC = $1 (which was 2 years ago), since I was building a new rig then. I even put a high end AMD GPU in it, which I was planning to mine with, but never got to that anyway. I've never even thought upon spending RL money on BTCs, but I was rather seriously concerning mining for a while, although it was questionable whether the BTCs mined would cover my electricity bill and the good health of my GPU was more important to me. I am now considering buying some BTCs though, once their price crashes. Prolly even mining some too. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 I'm building a mining rig. Even if I can maybe one BC every other month... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 I am now considering buying some BTCs though, once their price crashes. Prolly even mining some too. We'll see. While I definitely recommend sinking any spare cash into Bitcoin on the next dip, I would stay away from mining. I follow mining hardware pretty closely, and there's not a single announced rig that I think will see an ROI. If you really want to get a piece of the mining action, your best bet is to pick up shares of ASICMiner. They are currently ~0.34 BTC a share, which is the lowest I've seen them. The dividend payouts have been getting low, which is the reason the shares are cheap, but I think the company is set for a sharp rebound. As far as buying your own mining hardware though, I'd avoid it completely. If you are set on mining, I'd pick one of the altcoins and try your hand at mining those with a video card. Don't waste money on any of the ASICs currently on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted December 4, 2013 Report Share Posted December 4, 2013 Yes, that is exactly what I was thinking. Litecoin is on the rice right now it seems. Also there are local companies in my country that are gathering funds for their own rigs. I am more worried about the technicalities though, as what software do I need and how exactly are the money going to be transfered to me. I feel sorry now that I didn't mine a bit back then. The local forum I visit concerning hardware has a special thread about mining, and looking back at 2011, there were people selling 15-20 BTCs for for the same amount of dollars... imagine how they feel now, especially when having in mind the fact that we live in a country where the average monthly salary is 400 euros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 5, 2013 Report Share Posted December 5, 2013 I'm also considering buying in a bit when the price dips a bit. If nothing else, it seems a good short-term investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Foxx, I encourage you to buy .00001 bitcoin with your entire net worth. When my bitcoins appreciate, I will probably buy your country and turn it into a sleazy tourist resort filled with french nationalists. Your .00001 might be worth enough then for a quick Mai Tai before you fetch more towels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 LOL Dude, he's banned again. You can't make fun of a guy's country while he's banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 I edited this so I don't break any more hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'm also considering buying in a bit when the price dips a bit. If nothing else' date=' it seems a good short-term investment.[/quote'] I'd suggest watching the market for a while before jumping in. I personally think we are set to crash off this ~1k price, and I'd hate to see someone jump in based off my recommendation, only to lose in the short term. http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd Watch the charts some and come to your own conclusion. Longterm, I think it's impossible to go wrong with buying bitcoin at any of these prices (since I think we'll hit $100k within a few years), but short term, you may have to deal with some loss buying in at $1000. http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/ I occasionally post there discussing prices, but it's really gone down hill since the recent price jump... a combination of newcomers and kids trying to make an easy dollar without understanding anything about markets or trading. There's still the occasional informative post though, if you sift through the trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 I'd suggest watching the market for a while before jumping in. I personally think we are set to crash off this ~1k price, and I'd hate to see someone jump in based off my recommendation, only to lose in the short term. Actually, I just cashed out a majority of my BTC. Fate favors the bold! I'm predicting we'll see below 600 within a week. Rolling the dice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 6, 2013 Report Share Posted December 6, 2013 Oh, definitely going to wait for the price to crash a bit. Hardly a smart time to speculate when there's a speculation-caused bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 Better make that 600 within a few hours... High five to Mali for pointing out the double top, which convinced me To cash out when I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 7, 2013 Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 While this situation makes it great for speculation, it does pose a bit of an issue regarding Bitcoin's overall goal of becoming a true currency - the value of a currency needs to be fairly predictable, while Bitcoin's remains highly volatile. I don't deny that thus far it's been on a solidly upward trend, and it's certainly something worthy of consideration for short-term investments, but at some point it'll need much more stability otherwise it will ultimately fail. It's trying to be digital gold, and in some ways it's succeeding (cost of production and total amount available are fairly predictable), but it lacks one key factor that helps keep gold fairly stable - it has no utility itself, being a purely digital product. Gold has uses in a variety of items, from jewelry to electronics. As far as I can tell, the main increase in Bitcoin's value over the last few months has been through speculation - people buy, hoping that the price will go up as others do the same, and hoping that they can then sell at a high point before the value begins to crash again, again as others do the same. Thus far, inscribed, this fits your actions rather well - and I don't mean any censure in that. Honestly, I somewhat wish I'd taken your advice early on and cashed in a bit myself. But the way it's been working thus far does lead me to question how well it'll do at achieving the actual goal of becoming a currency rather than a speculative stock exchange in what is currently mostly a non-real product. While there are a good number of places that accept Bitcoin, I have to wonder how much more they liked doing so yesterday than they do today, considering that the value of Bitcoins in currency accepted by world governments has been cut almost in half in a matter of hours. This doesn't feel so far like a new world currency to me so much as it does a high-risk high-reward stock exchange... and I honestly like the idea behind Bitcoin in many respects, so that has me somewhat concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2013 While this situation makes it great for speculation' date=' it does pose a bit of an issue regarding Bitcoin's overall goal of becoming a true currency - the value of a currency needs to be fairly predictable, while Bitcoin's remains highly volatile. [/quote'] It's not an overnight process. What we're seeing now is four years worth of adoption, and it's likely to still need another decade before we truly see a "mature" Bitcoin. It's like an awkward teenager going through growth spurts. There will continue to be periods of high volatility for a while. Prior to this past month, we had been relatively stable in the 100-120 range for about four months. After this bubble deflates, we'll likely see a new period of relative stability until a combination of media attention/industry adoption/speculators start another bubble. And after every bubble, we end up at a higher overall price with more people using bitcoin and more merchants accepting bitcoin as payment. It's trying to be digital gold' date=' and in some ways it's succeeding (cost of production and total amount available are fairly predictable), but it lacks one key factor that helps keep gold fairly stable - it has no utility itself, being a purely digital product. Gold has uses in a variety of items, from jewelry to electronics.[/quote'] If gold were valued strictly for its use in industry, then it would be a fraction of it's currently traded price. We value it highly because it is an excellent store of wealth. That's it's primary utility. In this regard, bitcoin offers an even better store of wealth. As far as I can tell' date=' the main increase in Bitcoin's value over the last few months has been through speculation - people buy, hoping that the price will go up as others do the same, and hoping that they can then sell at a high point before the value begins to crash again, again as others do the same. Thus far, inscribed, this fits your actions rather well - and I don't mean any censure in that. Honestly, I somewhat wish I'd taken your advice early on and cashed in a bit myself. But the way it's been working thus far does lead me to question how well it'll do at achieving the actual goal of becoming a currency rather than a speculative stock exchange in what is currently mostly a non-real product. While there are a good number of places that accept Bitcoin, I have to wonder how much more they liked doing so yesterday than they do today, considering that the value of Bitcoins in currency accepted by world governments has been cut almost in half in a matter of hours. This doesn't feel so far like a new world currency to me so much as it does a high-risk high-reward stock exchange... and I honestly like the idea behind Bitcoin in many respects, so that has me somewhat concerned.[/quote'] Again, you are looking at the short term, but you should be looking at the long term. In 2009, why would anyone have bothered with Bitcoin? No one accepted it as payment, and very few valued it at all. Then in 2011, why would anyone bother with Bitcoin? Sure, a few people accepted it for payment, and more people valued it than in 2009, but it was very risky and volatile. Now here we are, in 2013, asking those same questions, but you have to compare the position we're asking from now, and the position those questions were being asked from in 2009. Now consider where we will be in 2017, when people will STILL have the same questions and concerns. It's a slow process. First come the enthusiasts, then come the speculators, then comes industry. You can't change the world over night, but if you look at the evolution we've seen so far in four years, the future looks bright. PS: My interest in the day trading aspects of Bitcoin are entirely speculative, I agree. That's the nature of the beast. But the subject of Bitcoin as a technology and currency, and the subject of trading in Bitcoin for profit are two different topics, and I don't want to mix the two up. Some people make a fortune trading stocks, some trade commodities, some trade in world currencies. Trading Bitcoin just happens to be what got me interested in that world, and I'd like to think I've learned quite a bit just from playing around with some extra money I've earned off my initial purchases. Six months ago, I hadn't heard the terms 'bull' and 'bear' since high school economics, and I wouldn't of been able to tell you what an EMA or a MACD were. Now, I feel like I can speak a little more intelligently about markets, and my interest has spilled over into exploring stock and commodities trading. edit: Typos and stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 8, 2013 Report Share Posted December 8, 2013 Bitcoin may gain value over time as a currency, and as you said, it's utility in that arena has been growing as more merchants accept it... but I wonder if the instability it has thus far shown because of the speculation going on regarding it will cause problems with achieving that goal. For instance, a merchant who accepts Bitcoins as payments currently has to deal with the fact that the value of those payments in currencies used by larger markets and govts. can fluctuate rather rapidly... in less than a day it lost almost half its value. For a merchant attempting to use their income to regularly restock supplies, that's dangerous... if I sell something that cost me $700 to buy for a Bitcoin two days ago and immediately sold that bitcoin, I made a $300 profit, but if I try to use that same bitcoin today to pay a distributor to restock, I'm doing so at a loss or at best breaking even. On the flip side, merchants who early-on starting accepting Bitcoins are probably loving that choice (assuming they held on to any rather than spending them relatively soon to restock), so... I'm not saying this is a situation that will definitely cause problems, I'm more just curious about the impact it'll have. Like I said before, I like the idea behind bitcoin, so I rather hope it won't be an issue - and your arguments that it won't make a fair degree of sense, inscribed. I'm not an economist or strongly economically trained, so anyone deciding to ignore my concerns is likely fairly justified in doing so. EDITED: Due to me being an idiot and having misread something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted December 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Well, most merchants would likely cash out some/most/all every night, especially during periods of high volatility. The benefits of bitcoin are that it allows transactions at significantly smaller fees than credit cards and Paypal, and it protects the merchant from charge-back scams. It would be up to the individual merchant how much of each currency he'd want to keep, just like any merchant dealing with multiple currencies. Once we get to a point where you can deal in only Bitcoin at that level, then the price would no longer be as volatile. Also, it's starting to look like we're going to have significant upwards movement this week, so I went ahead and converted back to btc. I could of bought in much lower, but I got greedy and thought for sure we'd be hitting lower prices. Any profit is better than no profit though! If you're thinking about buying any, it might be worthwhile to throw a little in now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Well' date=' most merchants would likely cash out some/most/all every night, especially during periods of high volatility.[/quote'] Definitely the smart way to do it, no doubt. And good luck. I won't be able to until next year... need to get all this damned holiday shopping out of the way first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 22, 2014 Report Share Posted February 22, 2014 Just happened to be checking Mtgox out of curiosity, and I noticed that Bitcoins have dropped incredibly since I last checked... a month-ish ago they were around $900, a couple weeks ago $600, and right now Mtgox's average is $120? Did NOT expect that. I hope you managed to sell high or that it bounces back soon, inscribed. Note: Have not checked other sites, is possible that MtGox's values are anomalous and not representative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted February 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 You shouldn't use Mt. Gox to check prices. It's currently in it's death throes as an exchange due to poor software design and reluctance to change. A known bug has finally caused it to collapse. I never used it to trade, so it doesn't affect me. The actual price is currently around $600. http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusdI mentioned in an earlier post in this thread that the price at $1000 was obviously a bubble and that the price would fall. It's slow drop to the current $600 has been congruent with the other bubbles Bitcoin has experienced. It may slowly fall a bit more before reaching a stagnation point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted February 23, 2014 Report Share Posted February 23, 2014 Yeah, noticed that looking into things a bit more earlier today. Glad you weren't negatively affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inscribed Posted February 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2014 Gox finally declared insolvency today. Prices took a plummet (~$450). Good time to buy, if you were going to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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