Balance Idea Brainstorming

This is where we shoot for gold. Please list any topics/ideas you want to be considered for balance changes. Link threads if the idea has been presented/complex. Please post about which ideas you don't want or you think are important so we can sort them out. If somebody says no, move on or adapt the change. One no means we can't do it, so we need to move on.

If you suggest a gear change, please specify which item and how you would change it. Same with a skill/spell change. If you suggest something like a class overhaul, please post a detailed skillset or what you would do. I have no time at this second to compile a beginning list, unfortunately. Doesn't need to be your own idea, of course.

1. Remove all consumables and rebalance. Underdeveloped idea, @Celerity votes no.

2. Remove fire resist from ash cloak. Replace with what? @f0xx votes no.

3. Racial vulns take precedence over equipment resists. If a piece of a equipment negates your vuln, the vuln is not negated. @f0xx votes no.

4. Lag on drug use. In combat? Always? How long? @f0xx votes no.

5. Drug use in combat has chance to fail. What chance? @f0xx votes no.

6. Lag on wimpy flee.  @Wade votes no to all wimpy changes.

7. Cooldown on wimpy. @Wade votes no to all wimpy changes.

8. Fury duration reduced. To what? @f0xx votes no.

9. +1/+2 base spell level for Paladins/DKs. @Zhurong votes no.

10. Merged into racial tweaks. (vampire)

11. Ninja push lag increased to two rounds. @Zhurong votes no.

12. Mental/maledictive opening spells do not cause free round against caster. @Celerity votes no as per @f0xx's explanation.

13. Lower all damage by 30%. Underdeveloped idea, @Celerity votes no.

14. New class. Please provide links. (make new thread if new idea)

15. RP point bonus for grouping at all ranks. @f0xx votes no.

16. Can choose reward of some quests (e.g. cp or rp points). @f0xx votes no.

17. More quests that provide RP points. @f0xx votes no.

18. Berserker class revamp. Please post in relevant thread.

19. Healer class revamp. Please post in relevant thread.

20. Paladin class revamp. Please post in relevant thread. @f0xx votes no.

21. Healers as a paladin path. Seems redundant. No big change from them being a cleric path. @Celerity votes no.

22. Vampire thrust lag reduced. (victim lag) @Kyzarius votes no.

23. Vampire thrust no longer dismounts victim. @Kyzarius votes no.

24. New cabal. Please provide links. (make new thread if new idea)

25. Vampire shadow level reduction. @Kyzarius votes no.

26. Vampire shadow loses thrust. @Kyzarius votes no.

27. Merged into racial tweaks. (half-elf)

28. Merged into racial tweaks. (halfling)

29. Various racial tweaks.

30. Merged into racial tweaks. (duergar)

31. Merged into racial tweaks. (slith)

32. Merged into racial tweaks. (gnome)

33. Cleave upgrades.@f0xx votes no.

34. Shield mastery stops projectiles if in inventory but not worn. @f0xx votes no.

35. Shield mastery stops projectile DAMAGE (not flags, such as flaming) if in inventory but not worn. @f0xx votes no.

36. DK charmie revamp.@f0xx votes no.

37. Item or shop that can open lockboxes.

38. Warlock class.

39. Shaman class gains spirit shield and two handed. @tassinvegeta votes no.

40. Healers and shaman can choose between shield block and two handed.

41. Doublesheath without removing weapons.

42. Ninja tsuki strike blockable. @f0xx votes no.

43. Make missile immunity scrolls more expensive OR make scrolls crumble like drugs OR put missile immunity on usable equipment OR place a cooldown after the shield drops (it is way too easy to be a kazillionair now, might as well just trash fired weapons with how easily the scrolls are gained and stored). @f0xx votes no.

44. Additional +1 spellvl for shaman. @Celerity votes no. Too much stacking in one stat for them already.

45. Merged into racial tweaks. (slith)

46. Increase the usefulness of mundane weapons. How? @f0xx votes no.

47. Reduce Gor'Gorak gold drop.

48. Generally reduce gold availability. @f0xx votes no.

49. Take over the world.@f0xx votes no.

50. Vampire thrust to become restringed bash/bodyslam. @Kyzarius votes no.

51. Merged into racial tweaks. (storm and stone giants)

52. Merged into racial tweaks. (halfling 2)

53. 100 tick cooldown on pry. @Celerityvotes no. I appreciate the sentiment, but this isn't the fix.

54. Archery ranger arrows ignore/reduce missile defenses further.

55. Merchant becomes a faction. Allows goods.

Unanimously deciding on something is a futile effort. 

There will always be one person that a change will negatively effect and they will vote no.

I vote we remove all consumables and then balance everything around that. 

Does anyone enjoy collecting consumables?

Berserker Ideas:

Diminishing returns, hit/dam

I think berserkers should be less affected by diminishing hit/dam returns than other melee classes. The whole idea of this class is that they defend relatively poorly but are able to do more raw damage than other melee classes. Right now I don't think this happens. Sure there are times where a berserker will do more damage than other classes, but as a general rule a similarly equipped warrior or ranger will hit more often, and for very similar damage, with far better defences. Maybe while raged a berserker could completely ignore just the DAMROLL diminishing return?

More damage while hurt

I think Pali mentioned this as a proposed change somewhere a while back. I think it's a cool change that would give berserkers a little boost while not being overpowering. I think it also fits in really well with the general flavour of berserkers.

Voting no on the removal of consumables. Far too complex to prepare in the time frame. If you are serious, please work on how you would rebalance it. If you can flesh out the idea, we can go from there.

4 hours ago, Celerity said:

 

1. Remove all consumables and rebalance. Underdeveloped idea, @Celerity votes no.

No, way too much effort and some consumables are actually needed. Lol, to think of classes without detect invis never seeing anyone who can go invis. Screw that.

2. Remove fire resist from ash cloak. Replace with what?

Just remove the cloak as a whole, who cares about replacing it. No vuln should ever have something that can negate it.

3. Racial vulns take precedence over equipment resists. If a piece of a equipment negates your vuln, the vuln is not negated.

No vuln negating equipment. Period.

4. Lag on drug use. In combat? Always? How long?

One round lag on drug use or chances to fail, like that of a potion. Does not need higher lag than the dispel magic spell because after it, drugs are a consumable that disappear.

5. Drug use in combat has chance to fail. What chance?

Same as potions.

6. Lag on wimpy flee.  @Wade votes no to all wimpy changes.

Agreed, no changes.

7. Cooldown on wimpy. @Wade votes no to all wimpy changes.

Agreed, no changes.

8. Fury duration reduced. To what?

Not sure what the duration is now when stacked, but should be looked into if it is a huge deal.

9. +1/+2 base spell level for Paladins/DKs.

Hell to the no. Want +spell lvl, go get the gear.

10. Removal of class specific perk of vampires vs paladins.

What perk are we talking about here? The ability to dismount them with thrust? I've always thought thrust was broken. Change thrust to same as bash/bodyslam.

11. Ninja push lag increased to two rounds.

No.

12. Mental/maledictive opening spells do not cause free round against caster.

Am I missing something here or did we already discuss how murder rounds are? Opening with a mental/mal spell is like getting murder rounded.

13. Lower all damage by 30%. Underdeveloped idea, @Celerity votes no.

Wouldnt it just be easier to leave the damage how it is and perhaps double hp?

14. New class. Please provide links. (make new thread if new idea)

We do need a new class, either one for neutrals or one open to all 3 alignments.

15. RP point bonus for grouping at all ranks.

Hell yeah.

16. Can choose reward of some quests (e.g. cp or rp points).

Hell yeah.

17. More quests that provide RP points.

Hell yeah.

18. Berserker class revamp. Please post in relevant thread.

Hell yeah.

19. Healer class revamp. Please post in relevant thread.

Hell yeah.

20. Paladin class revamp. Please post in relevant thread.

Whats wrong with Paladins?

21. Healers as a paladin path. Seems redundant. No big change from them being a cleric path. @Celerity votes no.

Ugh, what?

22. Vampire thrust lag reduced. (victim lag)

Yes, and also remove it completely from the shadow and lower the shadows spell lvl.

23. Vampire thrust no longer dismounts victim.

Not sure why the hell it does this anyway, remove it. Stupid.

24. New cabal. Please provide links. (make new thread if new idea)

KoB (Keepers of Balance), sole purpose is to balance the scales of PK at 50. 1 Knight vs 3 Nexus, they side with the Knights. 3 WM and 1 Savant, they side with Savant. So on and so forth. No one likes being outnumbered. :P

Since your editing and adding to your list

Let classes with doublesheath actually sheath ALL their weapons without removing them.

Make ninjas new skill (forget the name, the one that hits hard and every round) have a chance to be blocked or dodged. It is strong damage every round that cannot be stopped. Even disarmed they still hit hard.

Fix regeneration for berserkers.

Make swing skill useful.

Give roar a bonus other than to devastation path.

Make mounted combat work for regular mounts at 50% reduction OR allow for goliath to be summoned indoors OR increase goliath timer.

Make missile immunity scrolls more expensive OR make scrolls crumble like drugs OR put missile immunity on usable equipment OR place a cooldown after the shield drops (it is way too easy to be a kazillionair now, might as well just trash fired weapons with how easily the scrolls are gained and stored).

Maybe add a few more pieces of +spell lvl gear with a hefty toll of adding +ac. Mages do nothing but stack hp and ac, might as well make giving them higher spells by sacrificing the ability of having your arse whipped easier.

Perhaps a +1 innate added to shamans with the increase of saves gear. Shamans were always the ones people turned to for killing those which were unkillable, now they seem moot.

Combine the Slith abilities to all alignments. Good, neutrals and evils can shed, swallow whole, block dirt but just get rid of chameleon. Also, make thirst much higher (you have to drink more but you become thirsty 50% less, meaning you get the you are thirsty msg twice a long but you have to drink twice as much).

Make mundane weapons great again. Everyone uses magical only, except for fighting invokers.

Lower the gold dropped from the Gor'Gorak to reduce farming. Too many people just load their bank account with gold and have unlimited supplies in consumables from it. (See my earlier post of missile immunity). Make people work for gold again.

This is all I can think of at the moment.

How about giving halflings a small bladed bonus, daggers and light swords. 

Stone Giants do more mundane damage. 

Storm Giants do more water/ice damage. 

Make Giants be the damage option, where ogre is the hp option.

We need to narrow this down. Which of these do you (not) want to see in game? Any other ideas?

This has been rolling around my head since http://theforsakenlands.com/community/index.php?/topic/38877-for-the-magi/ for better or worse.  Selectable wand/staff/scroll specialty targeted at pure magic users only.  IE: BMG, invoker, necro, cleric, shaman, healer, druid, possibly psi and lich.  Wanted to have an active and passive aspect to each.  While what I have may not be refined, it's a starting point.  Also, couldn't think of a better format.

Wands: Created wand from table similar to rangers, including unlocking further types.  Gains special features.  Single target only, 100 charges.  Categories: Fire, water, ice, lightning ... protection? (sanc, -AC), passive? (flight, invis).

• Passive: Held; auto-fire every (other) round @ 1 charge per attack
• Active:

Zap Light: level 30 equivalent damage, 2 charges per; 1/2 round lag. (As flame arrow, icicle, etc)

• Zap Medium: level 40 equivalent damage, 5 charges per; 1 round lag (With fireblind, str reduction, etc)
• Zap Heavy: level 50 equivalent damage, 10 charges per; 1.5-2 round lag (chance for [elemental] damage over time, break weapon, etc)

Staves: As wands, multi target only.

• Passive: Recharge (non-crafted) staves.  Must use source staff.  Source staff allows #charges*level/2 "spell points" which can be applied toward charging non-crafted staves.  Recharging rare staves requires double spell points, unique triple.  Full charges only.

EG: Staff of control weather has 25 charges of L10 'control weather' - 125 spell points (25*10/2).  This would feed 5 charges into the Orb of Dragonkin (L25 flight) or 1 charge to a glimmering staff (L50 sanc, rare).  Cool down timer (24 hr?) after each successful recharge.  Full staves only?  Base staff consumed?

Active: Similar to wands:

• Brandish Light: level 30 equivalent damage, 2 charges per; 1 round lag. (Flame arrow, icicle, etc)
• Brandish Medium: level 40 equivalent damage, 5 charges per; 1.5-2 round lag (fireblind, str reduction, etc)
• Brandish Heavy: level 50 equivalent damage, 10 charges per; 2-3 round lag (chance for [elemental] damage over time, break weapon, etc)

Scrolls: Created scrolls.  Possibly using reagents (parchment, wood, ink, etc; some/all needed).

• Passive: Able to cast in battle; chance to fail (akin to potions)
• Active: Create own scrolls up to 120 spell levels per scroll.  Cool down on success?  Either:

Option A: Any class spell can be scribed.  Non-class spells (from [selectable?] table) can be scribed at twice spell cost.  IE: Necro can scribe three L40 Acid Blasts on a scroll OR two L50 Acid Blasts + one L20 Acid Blast OR one L50 Hellstream + 1 L20 Acid Blast

• Option B: Takes specific spells from table (flame arrow, icicle, fireball, heal, sanc, etc).  Perhaps player can select their table?

Keep in mind that palis can hit insane vuln damage with wrath & holy word on vamps. They need to be able to knock them from their golitath balance wise.

Make smoking drugs increase your food requirement and make you lactose intolerant. LOL

1. The vamp change suggestions are just wrong.  Q class/races should be left alone.  

Vamps are NOT easy.  They have these advantages to compensate.  They are actually quite hard to play, and require constant monitoring of mechanics and spells.  

1. Leave wands, scrolls, staves alone.  Balance Herbs with some lag mechanics.  1 round in combat, chance to fail equal to potions in combat minus the hold requirement.  Let water seek level THEN go back to look at a scrolls, wands, stave system.

49 minutes ago, Anume said:

Keep in mind that palis can hit insane vuln damage with wrath & holy word on vamps. They need to be able to knock them from their golitath balance wise.

I've considered and experienced this. I don't see how the vamp just can't easily carry aff saves for this matchup? In my experience the vamp can reliably get those 4 rounds of thrust in (taking out half my Paladin's hp in those 8 rounds, which keep in mind is a great counter to wrath). Then I'd have only one round to get away while the vampire can just magic missile, auto blind, weapon proc paralyze, shadow, etc to quickly get the next 4 thrusts in to finish. Seems too easy to me for a class that's supposed to have an advantage over vamps. I even lost to a vamp on halloween madness on a Paladin combination that doesn't even exist lol.

I support the Shaman change.

My last shaman couldn't get 2 spells off without losing 50% of his life.  Their defenses need an update to modern play.

The suggestion to change missile scrolls needs some serious forethought.  You would be opening all casters up to unavoidable vuln specific damage.  As it stands now having or not having the missile shield in place can be the difference between a win or a loss. 

The Impact of making it even harder would just harm all the mages that arent in Savant or Knight.

@Kyzarius Does your no vampire vote extend to the racial perk against paladins in the race tweak thread?

19 hours ago, Nekky said:

Berserker Ideas:

 

Diminishing returns, hit/dam

I think berserkers should be less affected by diminishing hit/dam returns than other melee classes. The whole idea of this class is that they defend relatively poorly but are able to do more raw damage than other melee classes. Right now I don't think this happens. Sure there are times where a berserker will do more damage than other classes, but as a general rule a similarly equipped warrior or ranger will hit more often, and for very similar damage, with far better defences. Maybe while raged a berserker could completely ignore just the DAMROLL diminishing return?

More damage while hurt

I think Pali mentioned this as a proposed change somewhere a while back. I think it's a cool change that would give berserkers a little boost while not being overpowering. I think it also fits in really well with the general flavour of berserkers.

Wow the diminishing returns seems like a very simple change that would fix them. The more damage while hurt change is seemingly borderline op or might actually put them in the top tier status. Either way it'll lead to some exciting battles. Wonder how we might feel about allowing berserkers to rage out of combat? Kinda like a Super Saiyan transformation. :)

Just now, Celerity said:

@Kyzarius Does your no vampire vote extend to the racial perk against paladins in the race tweak thread?

Not really.  

Though I do not see why there would be such a change.  As it stands now a well dressed paladin REALLY delivers some serious pain to a vampire of equal stature.  Why would we tilt it more? Is our intent to make paladins the true anti vampire?

I'll leave it be until I get an explicit no, as with everything else.