Character Fame

[The Professor]

f0xx: I don't think it's about opinions here. This is the lore of FL we are discussing, and I can bring you multiple examples where immortals state that your character is a well known hero throughout the lands.

There is no disagreeing to that. If you disagree with it, then you go OOC.

This is like, a law in RL. If you "disagree" with a law in RL, what happens?

the-nameless: You have to think about it like this.

Our characters are medieval equivilant of actors. There is no way johnny depp can walk around, pretending he is not johnny depp. He can TRY, but he will fail. Also some of the more pious (read clerics, dks, and paladins) followers are going to be well known as patron/matrons of their respective gods. To expect someone like Anamus to walk around uknown is just hilarious.

since the two of you want to have this discussion, we can do so here without ruining Mya's thread.

it would seem that both of you are laboring under the notion that every famous person, in medieval equivalent times, can be spotted with absolute clarity. something that not everyone can achieve today in a world of mass media. aside from our characters actually wearing items that cover their face at times, whenever they're mentioned or discussed we pull out portraits so we all know exactly what they look like?

I've never stated that characters from creation aren't famous, I merely mentioned that by looking at a person, even someone famous, you're not always going to know, "Hey, that's an evil thief!" etc. doing that is OOC, IMO.

I would also like to add, I don't agree with "your character is a well known hero throughout the lands" mentality. that doesn't mean I'm saying that isn't how it is. I'm merely stating that I don't agree with it and wish it wasn't that way because of the abuse it provides. again, my opinion.

for those of you that have an opinion on the matter, please feel free to share.

[The-Nameless]

I do not agree with the fact that you singled f0xx, and myself out, to remove us from discussion of an idea which we did not argue, or attack. We simply stated our opinions, and suddenly we are ruining Mya's thread by disagreeing?

If you see a duergar, walking around in a city, wielding two daggers. You have to assume it is a thief. In a hostile place like Aabahran, you have to assume the worst scenario, or your enemies will very quickly create it. And it has been stated by immortals MANY times across this forum, that FL characters ARE great heroes, and the masses will see them, and rejoice. On this notion, wanted characters should be able to buy stuff at a shop, with a % chance of being recognized.

If the SAME elf is wwalking around all the time, dressed in fullplate armor, carrying a massive, flaming lance. People are *probably* going to remember that. If the SAME ogre is running about cleaving heads, shields, and swords while ripping the body parts off of his fallen enemies to wear as trophies of battle, you are going to remember that. If the same Werebeast is seen trapsing about the vampiric tombs, and Crystalmir Caverns repeatedly for months as he gains power in his guildhall, you are going to remember it. To suggest that someone can become one of the most powerful creatures on the face of this planet, while remaining COMPLETELY anonymous is a bit naive.

[The-Nameless]

Lately ALOT of people appear to have become post Nazis. Trying to basically tell people what/how they should/should not post. We are in an environment encompassing people from around the entire planet. As such you have to either respect the inevitable in the fact that someone IS going to disagree with you, and more often than not, you are going to disagree with them. Now the important part: Disagreement is HEALTHY. It represents a willingness to stand up for your own belief structure. It also means you can expect it of others as well. This is where problems begin to arise. I cannot tell you how many people exist in this world who simply CANNOT debate a topic. They invest too much emotionally into their stance, and it simply devolves into a bitchfest because neither person can intelligently bring up their points.

Telling someone their mentality is wrong would be a prime example. As opposed to providing facts to support your stance (as both myself, and f0xx did) you are simply attacking our views on the subject, attempting to dismantle our arguments, without any facts to support your own claim.

[Enethier]

I once had an RP where I was a "Faceless" - A type of undead that could essentially change its form to match those of the souls it devoured.

I RPed it well enough even with people going "Oh that's _____, the _____." I just developed multiple personalities that I would adapt depending on the face I wore, spoke different ways for each, and let it be.

Does it suck sometimes? Sure. It'd be neat for certain RP aspects to have it not be known what you are. In the same respect, it has some serious potential for abuse. Not knowing the profession of your enemy would be a large detriment and actually break the immersion aspect. Our characters, mostly, still exist in the world when we log out. To say that they don't learn about Charlie the Battlemage at all through word of mouth kind of makes the world seem dull. Do NPCs not talk to each other? Do rumors and legends not exist? The idea that such information is OOC, in this light, makes the brilliant and wondrous FL world seem rather dull, grey, and devoid of any of the real light and lure of its RP: complete immersion.

Might as well ditch tells, in my opinion, if we lose out on access to basic NPC rumor knowledge.

[Anume]

Disagreement and discussion are welcome. Just keep it POLITE and discuss in a mature way, accepting other opinions without insulting anyone.

[mya]

To suggest that someone can become one of the most powerful creatures on the face of this planet' date=' while remaining COMPLETELY anonymous is a bit naive.[/quote']

I agree. PC are known characters.

But that does not means that you know all information about him.

People will know the information that is obvious and the information that he projects.

From my point of view people know what gender you are, unless you are using magical means to change it.

They know your race, unless you can do stuff.

People know you power compared to them.

People know your reputation.

People know your alignment.

People know your Title. They do not know your guild. As a thief can disguise himself.

People only know your god, if you sacrifice in front of them or they can cast Know alignment.

ATM if's I'm a thief, I can pretty sure fool anyone (without hide) that I'm a Cleric.

I have had a bard, that you would never know his class unless you were intimate of him, or you fought him and I revealed myself through bard skills.

And I got lost...

[Pali]

Are the who list and related mechanics OOC? Yes. Is the argument that PCs are famous and well-known and thus recognizable an imperfect RP justification for the OOC nature of the who list? Yes. We could argue hypotheticals all day on whether a person should be recognizable or not - you say I shouldn't recognize an evil thief as one, I say that his reputation is big enough that there are/have been wanted posters, you counter, I rebut, etc., but we'll be left in the end with "some characters should be instantly recognizable due to their RP/deeds, some shouldn't" and the impossibility of coding the game itself to recognize and differentiate between them.

But as a game, FL NEEDS the who list. As a game, FL NEEDS ways for characters to size each other up relatively quickly. It may be feasible to do a game differently, but FL's design ethos has always included such, and removing the ways we have to identify each other and our relations is a fundamental change to the game that would have huge ramifications - among the largest being giving evils a significant boost, as goods without a way to tell that people are evil (such as who group) lose something that is an intended perk for them: the ability to trust other characters not to kill them.

On top of that, it would diminish the multiplayer aspects of the game to make us all anonymous to each other. Grouping becomes far more difficult and dangerous, especially for goods who can no longer trust that those on who group won't be evil. Newbs would have a harder time finding people to ask for guidance and help. I also sincerely doubt that an incognito-style change actually would really add to RP except in a minority of cases, cases that already have ways to deal with it - the classes that actually gain an RP benefit from being unknown have ways to be unknown (disguise, hide).

[The Professor]

Are the who list and related mechanics OOC? Yes. Is the argument that PCs are famous and well-known and thus recognizable an imperfect RP justification for the OOC nature of the who list? Yes. We could argue hypotheticals all day on whether a person should be recognizable or not - you say I shouldn't recognize an evil thief as one, I say that his reputation is big enough that there are/have been wanted posters, you counter, I rebut, etc., but we'll be left in the end with "some characters should be instantly recognizable due to their RP/deeds, some shouldn't" and the impossibility of coding the game itself to recognize and differentiate between them.

But as a game, FL NEEDS the who list. As a game, FL NEEDS ways for characters to size each other up relatively quickly. It may be feasible to do a game differently, but FL's design ethos has always included such, and removing the ways we have to identify each other and our relations is a fundamental change to the game that would have huge ramifications - among the largest being giving evils a significant boost, as goods without a way to tell that people are evil (such as who group) lose something that is an intended perk for them: the ability to trust other characters not to kill them.

On top of that, it would diminish the multiplayer aspects of the game to make us all anonymous to each other. Grouping becomes far more difficult and dangerous, especially for goods who can no longer trust that those on who group won't be evil. Newbs would have a harder time finding people to ask for guidance and help. I also sincerely doubt that an incognito-style change actually would really add to RP except in a minority of cases, cases that already have ways to deal with it - the classes that actually gain an RP benefit from being unknown have ways to be unknown (disguise, hide).

that's how I feel about it. shared the overall premise of this point of view on Mya's thread, just not so well. thanks for clearing a few things up.