Proof to me that.....

[Teralis]

the MONK class has always needed revision then and still needs some form of update to spicen them up some.

 

 

Dungeons & Dragons (1974-1976)[edit]

The original monk character class was created by Brian Blume, inspired by the fictional martial arts of the Destroyer series of novels.^[2] The monk was introduced in 1975'sBlackmoor supplement.

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 1st edition (1977-1988)[edit]

The monk was a main character class in the first edition Players Handbook.^[3][4]

In 1981, Philip Meyers argued that "the monk is the weakest of the character classes" in an article published in Dragon Magazine #53 (later reprinted in Best of Dragon, Volume III). Meyers offered an extensive unofficial revision to the class, expanding and strengthening many of its game abilities (for example, increasing the monk's hit dice by 50%, raising the maximum level from 17 to 21, and adding class abilities as a "form of psionic power").^[5]

In 1985, the next official revision of the monk appeared as a character class in the first edition Oriental Adventures rulebook, by David Cook.^[6] This version retained most of the class as presented in the first edition Players Handbook, but replaced the abstract hand-to-hand attacks with a more specific rules system to emulate different styles of martial arts (such as karate, judo, etc.). According to a reviewer for White Dwarf, this version of the monk was "altered to fit into an Eastern pattern", and was "at last in the proper context".^[7]

Dungeons & Dragons (1977-1999)[edit]

The monk was available as a character class known as a "mystic" in the game's "Basic" edition, introduced in the Rules Cyclopedia.

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition (1989-1999)[edit]

The monk was dropped as one of the standard character classes available in the second edition.^[4][8] The Complete Priest's Handbook did, however, allow for clerics to take on some aspects of the monk class via the monk kit. This version of the monk retained clerical spellcasting and gained unarmed combat skills.

The monk was reintroduced as a second edition class of the priest group in Faiths & Avatars and Player's Option: Spells & Magic. This version of the monk is a fully playable character class, but differs significantly from previous incarnations of the monk. This version of the monk gains priestly spells (though from different spheres of influence than the cleric) and retains skill with unarmed attacks and unarmored defenses, but no other abilities attributed to earlier versions of the monk.

With the release of The Complete Psionics Handbook, many of the psionic or psionic-like abilities of the 1st edition monk became available in 2nd edition, though the 2nd edition monk was not given these abilities.

The monk was also reintroduced in The Scarlet Brotherhood for the Greyhawk setting, along with the Assassin class. This version is a direct update of the first edition class, and has no clerical powers.

Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition (2000-2007)[edit]

With the release of the third edition rules, the monk was reintroduced as a class.^[8]

Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition (2008-)[edit]

A preview version of the class was published online in the 375th issue of Dragon, released in May 2009.

The playtest version of the class published in May 2009 has the psionic power source and the striker role. Earlier in its development, the 4th edition monk was intended to use the ki power source. As strikers, monks are focused on mobility and single-target damage. Most monk at-will and encounter attack powers use the "full discipline" mechanic, powers with this mechanic have two modes: an offense-oriented mode which can be used by expending a standard action (the same action type used to make standard attacks) and a mobility-oriented mode which can be used by expending a move action (the same action type used for normal movement).^{[dated info]}

As published in Player's Handbook III,^[9] the Monk uses the Psionic power source, but may use ki focuses (similar in use to implements used by spellcasting classes) to add enhancements to his unarmed attacks. The monk class now makes it possible for them to use weapons effectively, even allowing them to be used as implements for some powers. In the absence of proficiency with high-damage weapons, however, the monk is still primarily an unarmed class.

 

 

JMO BTW!!!!!

[Volgathras]

I'm inclined to agree, I think there needs to be some adjustments to the class, and in fact several imms have taken a stab at things like paths for monks (as you know!). Interestingly, a particular sticking point is how monks are percieved; western, or eastern. I believe FL monks need to be 'defined' before we can make artistic and subsequently playstyle changes. That's actually a very cool fiscussion I'd like you players to have!

Of course monks and paths are there with patch changes and adjustmets for a myroad of other classes, in addition to all the othef changes with higher priority, so unfortunately it's unlikely a monk adjustment is coming any time soon.

[Teralis]

yeah I have a couple ideas but until I know they are on the block I think I will continue to develop them for when there is an open discussion for them.  Any time frame for any fun new changes, sorry just eager to see whats done, being done etc.... heh.

[Trick]

You know what the FL Staff should revise first? BARDS! Why? Because they F***ING suck! Terrible PK class and lacking any "real" bard spells. Taking skills/spells from other classes and saying, ; " Here ya go! " Doesn't make them unique.. It makes them suck. 

 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE FIX BARDS BEFORE ANY OTHER PK VIABLE CLASS!

[Ayroduth]

I agree with Trick.

[Dale]

Do bards really need to be pk viable?

[f0xx]

Do bards really need to be pk viable?

Only if you want people to play them.

[Dale]

My point still stands.

[Enethier]

Yes they do, otherwise they are wasted lines of code. You may not enjoy the idea of them, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be fixed.

 

[EtsoShex]

It was a toss-up when I rolled Emaeon between monk and bard. I recalled from previous play years ago that those two classes were particularly strange. Very much different. I can't PK with a bard, but I haven't really played enough @50 to get good with anything. But dale has another point (how does this keep happening) with bards not being PK oriented in the first place.

[Enethier]

Etso, that is largely their flaw. This is a PK mud. RP enforced, sure, but a PK mud all the same. Having a class be terrible at PK by design just does not make sense. 

[Volgathras]

Let me alleviate concerns I'm hearing here about the point of this thread. I did not intend my post to infer that bards aren't on the agenda; they are, and further along than monks. However, that isn't to say our creative juices aren't exclusively oriented towards bards. What I was proposing was a discussion on the RP nature of monks in FL, not an immediate overhaul. I.E. should they be considered more western? Eastern influence? A fusion? something else entirely? What should be their lore? At presnt, the idea of 'monk' is so open so as to mean almost nothing. It's defined only by 'beats stuff up with their hands'. I think they, like many things in FL, can do with a backstory update.

[Clavo]

I for one, enjoy the monk class. It is a fun class to play. I always felt the monk here should be more religious in their culture. I picture a monk as someone who shaves their head as a vow to their god sitting in deep prayer and meditation within their temple. I think it would be cool if religion played a bigger role in their lives here. Kind of like a cleric with divine intervention. Perhaps each religion could get their own special stance.

[Enethier]

I think it would be awesome if monks had paths that sort of expanded their flavor. Currently, monks feel eastern with their stances, though there are some strange references to western martial arts (kickboxing for example). 

It would be awesome to see them as a path class branching off at 15, with one branch focused on the eastern disciplines, another focused on western grappling, and a third based off of the spiritual combatant.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

I for one, enjoy the monk class. It is a fun class to play. I always felt the monk here should be more religious in their culture. I picture a monk as someone who shaves their head as a vow to their god sitting in deep prayer and meditation within their temple. I think it would be cool if religion played a bigger role in their lives here. Kind of like a cleric with divine intervention. Perhaps each religion could get their own special stance.

Holy Hands, religion specific

[Magick]

... there are some strange references to western martial arts (kickboxing for example).

 

Kickboxing has been around since at least the mid 16th century in southeast Asia.

 

 

 

I've always seen monks as predominately eastern with a hint of western thrown in.  Just a hint.  And by hint, I mean not at all.

If the eastern and western cultures are intertwined a bit more, doing the aforementioned religion specific skill/stance/chii would make sense.  If we go too far western, we'll be having little more than Friar Tucks running around, and we already have those in the form of clerics and healers.  Unless of course we're more along the lines of Silas from The Da Vinci Code.  Personally, a 75/25 mix of eastern and western I think would be closer to optimum.

 

 

As for the OP, I haven't read it yet.  The main factor with that is that for some reason (and it's happened on multiple posts, not just this one) is that the text is a shade or three darker than the background using the Viril theme.  I have to either highlight the text or copy it to notepad or similar.

[Dale]

Holy Hands, religion specific

Holy hands / Bless / Divine intervention / Bless arms are all religion based for clerics.  And I feel like I'm missing something else too.

[EtsoShex]

My sole understanding of monks is that they're a class wherein you have to train deliberately and carefully, and various stances do various things. That's really all I get out of it. I would retain some psi powers, cause monks would have a mental capacity for that kinda thing, but there should be some communer spells also. I think of them as mostly Eastern, wearing orange robes with a shiny head and stuff. I think it could be a more friar-type class a-la healers, but that would be more of a deviation or path. Bards, they're fun.

[Cephirus]

My thoughts are a more Eastern approach, developing three different schools to represent the different religious aspects and perhaps alter what skills/powers they would be able to choose/obtain.

 

The first being (good) one that focuses more on protecting yourself and others. Doing away with impurities, perhaps even taking vows of poverty and the like to express their holiness.

 

The second (neutral) focusing on the balance that nature (at least this is how I view it) sees the world, not concerned so much with good or evil, but more about respecting the balance of choice in life, too much or too little can cause harm.

 

The final (evil) focusing more on hard training and the respect it should garner. Tournaments would be frequent to determine who is worthy to be considered a master. Strict discipline would be required and punishment would be severe.

[The Professor]

TAKING FROM THIS CONCEPT.

My thoughts are a more Eastern approach, developing three different schools to represent the different religious aspects and perhaps alter what skills/powers they would be able to choose/obtain.

 

The first being (good) one that focuses more on protecting yourself and others. Doing away with impurities, perhaps even taking vows of poverty and the like to express their holiness.

 

The second (neutral) focusing on the balance that nature (at least this is how I view it) sees the world, not concerned so much with good or evil, but more about respecting the balance of choice in life, too much or too little can cause harm.

 

The final (evil) focusing more on hard training and the respect it should garner. Tournaments would be frequent to determine who is worthy to be considered a master. Strict discipline would be required and punishment would be severe.

A group, deemed extremists by the outside world, isolated themselves from the rigors of normal daily life and societal trappings. This group, secluded as they were, sought enlightenment. Believing, by governing every aspect of the self with discipline, they could transcend their mortal failings and attain perfection; and through perfection - divinity. Laboring in the quiet of their commune, spanning centuries, they formulated mental and physical exercises aimed at perfecting their being. These inspired concepts of the natural world, by the gift of oral tradition, were passed down through the ages... sculpting and shaping what we've come to know as the Order of Monks. 

These Monks have two main legacies: Xhi the internal, which refers to the philosophies and principals of Oneness of Mind, and Xho the external, which refers to the martial arts and physical mastery of the Oneness of Body. To monks these are not separate disciplines and they have always pursued the unification of Xhi and Xho. Where they differ, is how they believe they can seek and ultimately obtain divinity... or rather, True Oneness. 

Three Sects have emerged within the Order, each with their own approach on the teachings of Xhi and Xho: 

The First (Good) is Lun Te Sai, a branch within the monastery that believes True Oneness can only be obtained through purity and acts of kindness... of course, what is truly deemed an act of kindness or perceived as pure is certainly a matter of debate among them. They are said to focus their efforts on mental acuity, excelling at defense and proving themselves learned disciples of the healing arts. "To have an enemy is to be an enemy and our worst enemies are always ourselves." - Zhen Choi, Lun Te Sai founder. 

The Second (Neutral) is Jin Te Sai, a branch within the monastery that believes True Oneness can only be achieved through balance. The path to balance is as varied in its methods as those that seek it. They are said to exhibit a mixture of skills suited for most any situation, but some sources say they practice trickery and manipulation. "An unbalanced man, like iron, is in every way invariable; The balanced man is always varying to find his center." - Jho Kin-Don, Jin Te Sai founder. 

The Third (Evil) is Hon Te Sai, a branch within the monastery that believes True Oneness can only be obtained through superiority and self-preservation... of course, how to go about doing that is subjective to say the least. The are said to focus on physical prowess, proving themselves the most offensive of the Three. "Power and authority are not things freely given, one must have the ability to claim them if they are to wield them. It is only through this that we may effect the world and so doing, ourselves." - Meng Lin, Hon Te Sai founder. 


[This is just me spit-balling a more involved take on Cephirus' idea. Personally, I've always been opposed to the Eastern take on any class... however, since terms like Ninja are here to stay, I don't see a problem adding more Eastern concepts. Any words/names that happen to be reminiscent to Chinese -or any language- was purely coincidental... I would like to keep the Eastern views and philosophical approach on things... but I would like us to step away from using real-world terms/names/languages and create something specific to FL]

[Celerity]

Monks are very clearly far, far more eastern in design and background as of now. FL monks are almost entirely based on a Chinese Shaolin template...

 

I don't see any connections to western monks...I can't think of any western orders that trained in unarmed and unarmored combat or adopted animal-based fighting styles. Much less believed in internal energy forces like chii...

 

The closest thing the west can offer are militant holy orders...perhaps something like the Knights of St. John or the Teutons...both of which are more like pirates and crusaders respectively.

 

Monks are overwhelming eastern in flavor.

[f0xx]

I don't know what anyone means by eastern/western style, but the monks of shaolin are the first thing that comes to my mind when talking about FL monks.

[Dale]

I think of WIND TUNNEL!

[The Professor]

I think what Volg had in mind was to come up with a story on how our Monks came to be... Eastern/Western terms were more for aesthetics... Someone, if they really wanted to, could create their own story (a backstory) about the FL Monks and actually fabricate a "Westerner's point of view" meaning... decidedly medieval in their approach. (of course, that might entail changing the names of monk skills and the like) 

[Volgathras]

She's got it. Oooooh baaaaby she's got it.