Monks

[KRins]

I know at least 4 people are gonna jump down my throat for this one. I think that monks should receive some sort of selectable skill, perhaps at pinn. I think this would encourage the pbase to make more of them. I have seen very few. I am aware that monks are one of the very few classes that can fight anyone effective provided they are prepared correctly, but they are also one of the most linear classes also. There is a prescribed method for every activity as a monk. Much as ninjas were dirt, nerve, grapple spamming material prior to ninjitsu, monks are jump into horse (or whatever else you feel will be effective for your target), dirt, kick kick kick. Perhaps call the selectable skill ki art or something like that. Yes I know we have a skill called chii already, but chii and ki are not the same thing. I think it would make monks more of a branched class like warriors or zerks (like anger zerks or dev zerks. Staff mastery, dagger mastery, or shield mastery warriors.)

[Tom]

I'm going to disagree with you but steer clear of your throat.

Every class has a certain number of common strategies they can use. The only problem with monks is they have those 7 ( stances, and people substitute the word "stance" for "strategy," so people think they're less flexible than other classes. Making every class branching isn't something I'd consider necessary.

[Hegemon]

Something.

I don't see any reason to make a Monk with Blademasters around.

[archgold]

yea it seems that monks will always be the underdog as long as blademasters are around, they should get a tone up.

[Magick]

And as soon as they are, we'll hear about monks needing toning down. It's a perpetual cycle.

[WarriorCleric]

And as soon as they are' date=' we'll hear about monks needing toning down. It's a perpetual cycle.[/quote']

WC

[zetakappa]

And as soon as they are' date=' we'll hear about monks needing toning down. It's a perpetual cycle.[/quote']

That's why this something would have to be clever and well thought-out.

Just to remind myself and anyone else who may have forgotten what a monk is:

MONK MONKS

Monks are ascetics who learn their skills at a monastery instead of a

guild. Monks must practice rigorous mental and physical training and

discipline to achieve their powers. Although they perform incredible

physical and mental feats, they cannot cast spells. They receive their

powers through heavy meditation. Monks are guardians of knowledge and are

also masters of unarmed combat. Most monks shun weapons as the last resort

of the weak. Because monks rely on their quickness, they can not wear heavy

clothing. Also, due to their exstensive training monks excel beyond most

mortals in their skill in hand to hand fighting, surpassing normal

boundries. Monks are also able to stay the killing blow to their opponent,

instead granting them mercy.

I do agree with the original poster, it would be nice if monks had a single selectable skill somewhere between 40 and 50. Monks at pinnacle can be terrifying lag-machines if they're on the attack, even without cabal skills, so this something shouldn't necessarily be a simple damage buff.

Though those damage buffs are the most fun to think about. A skill that added an extra attack of a single selected element/alignment and functioned in a manner similar to a certain ninja skill? Riiighteousssss. But monks don't really need to do more damage if they know their skills and anatomies.

Something as useful as a blademaster's critical strike skill would do. It's useful against all classes, but not too useful.

My favorite idea is a skill that would function similar to chii bolt, in that it would require charging outside of combat. Its use would be limited to initiating combat (like charge) and it would have the effect of disrupting the victim's connection to magical forces. Casters could not cast, communers could not commune. Psionicists would be unaffected, I suppose, since they don't connect to any magical forces. In effect, it would be silence+blasphemy.

The strength of the skill would be counterbalanced by the fact that it can't be cast during combat and it wears off very soon. Casters and communers would only have to survive until the next tick to teleport/word/portal/gate away, and they wouldn't have the effect stuck on them during combat, when they may be very near death already.

The only thing I'm sure of right now is that whatever this something is, it shouldn't be determined by alignment, or there'll suddenly be a lot of monks. And of course it should be something that can be (but not necessarily should be) included in a character's RP/desc, not just an anonymous boost in some numbers somewhere.

[Mister E]

The thing everyone is forgetting is that Monks could beat the crap out of many classes out there. They just have a very hard time vs BLMs. That isnt a reason not to play monks. Just dont fight BLMs

Would still be cool to see an interesting change made to them. I think it should b stance based as that is what monks are about. Maybe add a stance to offense and one to defense, Or if you want to get more in depth a new empoerment could be created so monks had say Offense, Defense, and Balanced. Or we could just keep O and D and have a whol bunch more stances and the select could be for a package of stances. One package could be animal for instance, another could be spiritual, one could be a weapons package even. For the weapons package the monk would still rely on hand to hand but for the various stances he would have to be holding a certain weapon type. Just some ideas.

[archgold]

we should style monks IG after shaolin monks IRL, I know tons about them, just come to me for any suggestions;) . But truly if you consider the top power classes IG monks should be up there, but to be truthful BLM beat them, Alotta rangers beat them, giant warriors here and there beat them and so....I would say that its not that much as an extra skill selection needs to be coded in but the use of the stances. I.e. Tiger stance....you'd never use that besides ranking and have you actually seen anyone use that at pinn? doubt it, because your defense is sacrificed for offense yet.....crane stance could easy just cover that gap.

The only possibilities I see a monk beating anyone is vs. some type of spellcaster, but not even then because most can put out lots of dmg especially evil clerics and invokers. Then you also have buddha stance......from what I have seen and when I played Rhaegar, no one I asked around IG has known how to train it or even come close to mastery. I've used it about twice....against a shaman or two and it's good but you could easily use an offensive and having air thrash and trip mastered beat them too.

So in conclusion the overall effect of the stances in a monk is that many of the defensive stances can be traded for your choice of 3 offensive stances against spellcasters. But towards melees or half-melees the most common choice would be defensive, either horse or drunken plus mantis. Stances are not strategies but strategies include the right stance. Strategies are flexible but defensive stances are not. They're just a simple linear way to defeat the enemy.

[delfytheelfy]

The thing everyone is forgetting is that Monks could beat the crap out of many classes out there. They just have a very hard time vs BLMs. That isnt a reason not to play monks. Just dont fight BLMs

Would still be cool to see an interesting change made to them. I think it should b stance based as that is what monks are about. Maybe add a stance to offense and one to defense, Or if you want to get more in depth a new empoerment could be created so monks had say Offense, Defense, and Balanced. Or we could just keep O and D and have a whol bunch more stances and the select could be for a package of stances. One package could be animal for instance, another could be spiritual, one could be a weapons package even. For the weapons package the monk would still rely on hand to hand but for the various stances he would have to be holding a certain weapon type. Just some ideas.

On my monk, easiest battles I had were against Paraxus and Luris.. so BLM's arent the worst to fight as a monk.

[Tom]

A monk beating Paraxus? I want a log of that one.

[mya]

And a Paladin ?

I think i never seen that.

My problem with monk is empowering defensive/offensive. Having 2 hours of no fighting ability is a total killer. Then you empower defensive and a invocker jumps on you and you are dead, because you need to change everything.

[delfytheelfy]

Beat no... came closer then against anyone else though. Lets just say nexus skill just hurt to much to ever pull a win. Thern again I suck @ pk... so..

[crackwilly21]

Monks are nice. They are a LOT of fun, and have lots of opportunities to whoop ***. Monks and blademasters are close to the same, but are also very different at the same time. I don't feel like getting into all the details, but lets just say, a well played monk could turn the tides if someone rolled the right combo, they'd be in business.

[mya]

To inspire new monks to be i would like to drop this pearl.

http://comegetyousome.com/video/tai_chi_masters.wmv

[Hegemon]

The problem I have with monks is that the Blademasters have the ability to switch weapons, whereas the Monk is stuck with just his fists and his ****.

A Monk, in defensive, is using mundane damage. A Blademaster, in a defensive stance, can use magic or mundane. They just switch the weapon.

Ogre Warrior, Battlemage, Giant, you run into problems a Blademaster simply won't have. They also get the additional bonuses of actually having a weapon, they get acupuncture which is FAR better than healing, blood vow trumps beads, race selection is far better (25 Dex Magic Resistant monks?), they can be any align, they get anatomy perks, they don't rely on a "maybe, maybe not" mechanic in offensive stances like phantom dragon or chakra strikes which, take it from me, are more likely to NOT go off, and there are likely a few more points I had but am missing at the moment, so if someone wants to feel free.

Monks genuinely feel "old school", and Blademasters really do feel like a "cutting edge" class that rewards those who can get them to work in ways a Monk really does not.

[Iyorvin]

Heh. All I think monks need is a better incorporation of warmaster skills. As it stands now, alot of them are just plain useless to a monk.

[Boy Kid Wonder]

But they get that sweet cabal item.

[Iyorvin]

Yeah, but that's only good if you can afford to either a) keep rebuying it upon death, or afford other means to prevent it's loss. Either way it is way too expensive, but hey, nothing else to use your CP on if you're a monk

[Hegemon]

Gentlemen, relying on a cabal to make or break your class is....well, bad design..

And beyond that, there is still a long rocky road to that cabal.

But this is beyond the scope of my post, I just feel if Blademasters are around, and monks are essentially an obsolete precurser class, then why would you be a Monk if you can be a Blademaster?

[delfytheelfy]

thye look better in tights?

[Mister E]

I think Hegemon made some good points about what the monks lack, but lets not forget this isn't a thread about why BLM > Monk, because I am sure some classes would do better against BLMs than Monks as they both are now. In general though we should get more ideas of how to improve Monks. I think healing could use a buffing, either restore a little more hp, or be usable more often than each 24 hours. Acupuncture is better, field dressing is better, herb is WAY better.

I think Monks have the potential to completely own someone if they get the jump on them. Anyone unsanced who gets hit and lagged by a monk could be dead in two rounds, but as others stated of all the monk stances how many of them are actually useful? It seems that people either use Horse, Drunk, Crane or Dragon. Monkey is also pretty popular I think. I still think it would be sweet if monks had 3 selectable paths, each with a different set of stances and all with some generic monk skills, but revamping a class totally requires a lot of work...Such a cool class that hardly anyone plays anymore. The only other option is for despiser to come back and roll a monk and own everyone, then the new monk thread will be how to tone them down.

[Magick]

I think Monks have the potential to completely own someone if they get the jump on them. Anyone unsanced who gets hit and lagged by a monk could be dead in two rounds...

Some of the suggestions behind the rest of your post stands pretty solid. I'm really not much one to talk, since I haven't ranked a monk past 25ish.

I'm going to point this one thing out, if only to state the obvious. I know you've posted monks in their defense.

Any class has the potential to completely own someone if they get the jump on them. Anyone unsanced who gets hit by any class could be dead in two rounds.

[KRins]

What monks really have is the ability to do the single most damaging attack in the entire game. Name something nastier than Strike of the Phantom Dragon...you can't. Unfortunately, its not as practical as say an Invoker Hellstream, because it is uncontrollable. They are nearly untouchable in defense, but then they can't reach out and touch anyone. Something to make them more reliable would be all that is necessary, since I happen to think chakera strikes could be the coolest thing ever. A selectable set of a pinn stance or something would be sweet.

That being said, played correctly a monk could technically hang with anyone if they know they are coming. Only problem is, how do you know what is coming? Monks need something that can hurt someone regardless of the situation. Hellstream hurts period. Dual Backstab hurts period. Wrath + Holy Word hurts period. I'm sure everyone has gotten the point by now.

[delfytheelfy]

Maybe they get to master a stance? like choose ONE stance that would be say 1??% ?