Ebah and Melfron

[kamikazi]

Are no more. I have dropped and sacrificed everything, so there should be a lot of stuff back in circulation. Peace out,

[Trick]

 

 

I liked both. 

[Vintervalpen]

Bleh.

 

I was hoping to talk to Ebah again sometime.

[f0xx]

Ebah ta....

[kamikazi]

Ebah ta....

You've no idea. An almost naked ogre zerker destroyed me with an axe and a fiery dagger while I was decked to the teeth. No point in such experiences, hah.

[f0xx]

The knife cuts both ways.

Unless you post a log, we can't really discuss it more.

[kamikazi]

The knife cuts both ways.

Unless you post a log, we can't really discuss it more.

True. The combo did not meet my expectations. I was doing great against invokers, but this was the first melee I fought and I did not want to fight another, haha. I am sure that Rylfarn with that solar mace would've hit for mangles trough sanc and prot since this guy was hitting for 5 dismembers a round trough sanctuary and a - 500 ac. The fire vuln is insane.

 

P.S. - You know I never keep logs, unless they are so fast and brutal, that I am able to see the whole fight when I scroll up, hah.

[kamikazi]

And about the thief...the first thief I fail. I better stick to drows.

[mya]

You were a combat feral cleric. You should be pulling 3-4 attacks per round + Steel wall. You should be the one eating him up with a magic burnprof mace/whip and burnprof shield while you casted dispel.

And Rylfarn is a sadder, which will have about the same number of attacks as you. The lance doesn't hit that hard, and the Solar mace you can parry.

If there's anyone you should fear, it's Thulgan and his associates.

 

A shame you are giving him up. I though you were learning so much about clerics.

[kamikazi]

I know a lot about evil clerics actually. Had a drow that was kicking ass back in the days, although I hadn't played one in about five years and I decided to try the combat oriented feral. The attacks were pretty nice and I was using a magic whip against the ogre, but he tore trough me like a train, wielding a forgemaster's hammer and a fiery dagger. He raged and destroyed me in two rounds. It was like five from six attacks all at me hitting for dismembers, as I said trough sanctuary and a -500 ac. I decided to let Ebah go, because of the low hp and mana pool and the insane fire vulnerability. Now I am thinking on what to roll and everytime that happens I end up rolling a dark knight, haha.

[mya]

That is what you get from wielding a whip. I would have gone with holy hands, and once he was spelled up, changed to a mace.

 

And you roll well. DK's and BLM can stand vs anything.

[Imoutgoodbye]

The fire vuln on ferals is ridiculous.  I played one and will never play one again.  Anyone who has ever played one will tell you it is too much.  Just ask Celerity what they were supposed to be.

[Erelei]

I played some pretty decent ferals. Fire vuln wasn't too much either.

[The Forsaken]

I've played two feral rangers and a feral ninja. Fire hurts, but at no point did I think it was too much compared to the advantages they have.

[Vaerick]

There have been some very tough ferals in the past and I'm sure there will be again. Don't see how a fire vuln is worse than other vulns out there.

[kamikazi]

Getting completely destroyed while being decked from a char that has just hit 50 and wearing crap is proof enough that the vuln is too much if you ask me. I might suck at PK, but I don't see how can 5-6 dismembers a round trough all kind of protective crap can be countered with a cleric. Also I never said ferals suck. I like the race, but not for a cleric. Low hp pool and a low mana pool. Perks like fury and the other one are cool, but they cannot compensate the vulnerability when you have only two defences. I will surely play a feral again, but never a cleric. Also, the combat cleric Holy Hands are bugged as I mentioned in the bug forum.

[Trick]

Certain races are better at certain classes. This game has never, nor will it ever be, balanced. One thing will always be stronger than something else or vice versa. We like to say things are balanced to MAYBE see a few unique combinations rolled, but the fact that certain race/class combos are rolled to the extreme is proof enough that certain combos flat out suck.

 

I've voiced it time and time again in regards to small sized warriors. They will NEVER be as good as larger ones and everyone that says different is just plain wrong. How do I know they are wrong? Because they have never played them at 50 and if they did it didn't last long.

 

Playing a combo for RP is all well and good, but when you constantly get wrecked as said combo, you don't wanna play it anymore. One of the most fun characters I have played in FL was Zkrivuur. A duergar bard reaver. I had tons of RP going with players and IMMs alike. But in PK I lost nearly every exchange. Not fun. Losing sucks and losing with a combo that is blatantly shit compared to other ones is even worse.

 

There is a reason why we see the same combos rolled over and over. I can tell you that it's not because of RP. I forget who said it, maybe Despiser, but we form an RP around a PK combo. Not the other way. 

 

Now, sometimes people roll a combo and legitimately have no idea of the strength of that combo. I've done it and I know Emp_Newb has done it a few times. Sometimes stuff works out that people haven't thought of. But that is rare.

 

 

/rant

[Enethier]

Certain races are better at certain classes. This game has never, nor will it ever be, balanced.

 

 

I hate to nitpick, as I agree with a lot of your post, but the quoted statement is fundamentally wrong, in a sense. FL applies a system of balancing often called perfect imbalance. In fact, the system is designed so that it doesn't succumb to being overloaded with these combos. Without accounting for individual skill, every race/class - possible exceptions exist or else there would be no change log - has a niche that it does not perform well against, and others that it performs excellently against.

[Imoutgoodbye]

I wish I could find a link for Game Informer's 4th Annual Sacred Cow BBQ for the Dark Souls franchise...the idea of Stockholm Syndrome in a player base applies so well.

[J.Twendrist]

I think small sized warriors should get something neat to make them more viable. That said if you're a halfling, or whatever, and there are ogres and giants running amok, maybe going and sticking them with a toothpick might not be the the best career choice. Just my thought, but, Fl is balanced kinda like rl is. There is always a either bigger/tougher fish or a quieter sneaky fish to worry about. No, you as an individual are not going to be able to take on every single person. But you might be able to deal with the physical bully others can't touch, and others might be able to make the intellectual bully that messes with you look like a fool (comparrison to mages/melees). It doesn't really make sense that every class/race should be perfectly able to fight every other class. That seems kinda like communism, looks good on paper but doesn't really work out practically. I mean, at that point why have race or class at all? Balanced=same and they are not the same, they are not supposed to be. Not saying the overall classes and races couldn't use some work and tweaking, but the notion that every class will be as equally able to fight every other class makes no sense.

[Trick]

I think small sized warriors should get something neat to make them more viable. That said if you're a halfling, or whatever, and there are ogres and giants running amok, maybe going and sticking them with a toothpick might not be the the best career choice. Just my thought, but, Fl is balanced kinda like rl is. There is always a either bigger/tougher fish or a quieter sneaky fish to worry about. No, you as an individual are not going to be able to take on every single person. But you might be able to deal with the physical bully others can't touch, and others might be able to make the intellectual bully that messes with you look like a fool (comparrison to mages/melees). It doesn't really make sense that every class/race should be perfectly able to fight every other class. That seems kinda like communism, looks good on paper but doesn't really work out practically. I mean, at that point why have race or class at all? Balanced=same and they are not the same, they are not supposed to be. Not saying the overall classes and races couldn't use some work and tweaking, but the notion that every class will be as equally able to fight every other class makes no sense.

 

 

 

 

And that is why we see people roll stronger combos. More or less. In a fantasy world, you want to believe that a halfling has a chance against that super evil, super badass fire giant warrior. That's why this is a fantasy game. Do I think every race/class combo should be just as strong as every other race/class combo? Not necessarily. I think player skill will USUALLY prevail and you can do some tricky shit to pull off a kill every now and again. But how many times are we going to see Ogre Warriors on the top of the PK list until we go, " Okay.. Maybe if this race was buffed a bit or a vuln was reduced, we might see some dwarf warriors or feral warriors that play longer than 2 days at 50. "

 

Why is this important? Variety. FL is the most fun I've ever had and it can be the worst, most brain numbing experience I've ever had. It is so hard to be original in this game because of that. Look at Qraces. You can usually tell what religion someone follows or what they are aiming for based off a cookie-cutter RP. It's no fault of their's.

 

I would love to see a duergar warrior reaver L or a dwarf warrior praetorian L. But I never will. Why? Because Thulgan's water whips will fuck that combo harder than anything. EVEN THOUGH dwarves and duergars are stereotypically, in other fantasy settings, extremely sturdy and powerful warriors. Why does this matter? Because no one wants to lose in a game. And who the hell wants to RP a loser? No one. 

 

You can not take into account any kind of intellectual power in this game. It is not something you can apply a number to and the stats you DO have that are suppose to dictate that(intelligence) doesn't matter. I've have RPed with some seriously stupid elves and I have RPed with genius level fire giants. Suunmar comes to mind here. And the reason you can't do that is because of the player's intelligence. Pali is smarter than me in real life. I fully believe this. Just because I am playing an Illithid and he is playing a fire giant doesn't mean that my character is smarter than his BECAUSE I can't RP it that way. Is it my failing? I don't think so. I can't role-play above my own IQ. 

[Mmm Coffee]

I know this is a shoutout and off-topic but you know how you fix giant vs non-giant melee?  You make melee skills, at least the signature ones, cost mana.

[f0xx]

Yes, my bash costs 50 mana now. Cute way to solve problems.

[Mmm Coffee]

There's no reason melee skills shouldn't cost mana.  No other RPG have I played where melee skills did not use some sort of endurance/mana.  The thing is, we all consider mana as "mental energy" when it should be considered more omnipotent....or basically just "energy" to use certain skills/spells.

 

Bash would be a relatively low-cost skill IMO but the trade-off should come into play with smaller-size warriors who generally have better defense and higher mana.  It would give the smaller size more attrition capability.  It wouldn't necessarily give them more capability, but it would add more fairness to the playing-field so to speak.

[kamikazi]

What I think on the matter is that there should be some new lores made selectable only for small sized warriors. That way things can get some balance. I can think of a couple of examples, but I will post them in the ideas section and I am going to do it tomorrow, cause they look at me like a freak when I start writhing things like that at work, haha.