Clarifying The Process

[Volgathras]

For background and the inspiration for this post, look here: http://theforsakenlands.com/community/index.php?/topic/34349-moderates-being-looted-of-non-rare-non-cabal-containers/

 

The above thread started as a thought. A question and opinion. The resulting exchange from staff and player clearly struck a cord, and the exchange became an argument. It isn't the first, nor will it be the last time this sort of thing happens - arguments are common when people who care deeply about something have different opinions.

 

What I took away, though, was the tone of several comments that used the conflict as a platform to express their general displeasure with the state of the game. Certainly while this didn't do anything to improve our community or the game, people are free to express their opinions. That wasn't the point I took from it. Instead, I wanted to dispel some of the misconceptions (and deliberate disinformation), detail the administrative decision-making process, and share my own design theory as an implementer.

 

How Decisions Are Made:

Immortals have a set of rules we're told to read and adhere to when we get started. These 'god rules' are largely outdated, but form the bed-rock of our administrative system. Among things like how to deal with punishments or keeping your imm job separate from your mort play is the general 'hierarchy.' That is, immortals ranks and what they're expected to do.

 

In-game, this means whether or not they're required to stay visible, their particular duties, and so forth. However, these differentiations largely do not apply in the decision-making process. Policy changes, game design, balance, and more are an open forum. Any and all opinions are encouraged and discussed. The only time a staff member's voice is not heard is when they choose not to weigh in. Once adequate discussion has taken place, the implementers make a decision.

 

During some heated arguments among the playerbase you'll hear things along the lines of 'only a select few make all the decisions,' 'they don't listen to anyone and do whatever they want,' 'Anume runs the game like her own play-pen.' This is entirely false, but for one part: a select few do make the decisions. Who are they? The imms, mostly, but when it comes down to it final say lies with me (head builder), Anume (head staff) and Morlach (head coder). That's the job of upper management.

 

Unilateral decisions are rare exceptions to this rule. Like a president can enact executive orders, implementers can make changes are we see necessary, but never when it would amount to a significant change to the state of the game. I will specify.

 

As head builder, I can make adjustments to the cosmetic appearance to the game as needed. I can adjust item, room and mobile programs as necessary for stability or aesthetics. In a pinch I can change item values or spawn rates or make changes to the narrative of the game, but only in rare cases. For most anything else, I bring it up with the others before a decision is made.

 

Morlhach, as head coder, can tweak the game code as needed for balance and quality of life, so long as it maintains the original design parameters. He has autonomy on what projects he works on that have been approved by the staff as a whole, as well as bugs. If necessary he can make any changes needed to ensure the game remains up, stable, and working. Anything else, he brings it up and we discuss it as a team.

 

Anume, as staff imp, keeps the administration on task, watches over and directs lower-level imms in game matters, handles disciplinary action of imms and more. All of these she can do as she sees fit to ensure the administration keeps running and the game stays up. Her years of experience and extensive knowledge of all aspects of the game means she has a say in all decisions, but this is no different than Morl or I.

 

Let's look, then, at how a decision is made from start to finish. I'll use a recent example:

 

- Proposal: Either from players or staff. In our example the player of Dilorry offered a number of item adjustments for Herald Cabal gear, as well as Herald powers for the cabal overhaul.

 

- Discussion: The proposal is posted in our 'changes' forum, and picked over by any imm with an opinion. Counter-proposals are made, adjustments to the original proposal are offered, and so on. In our example I created a number of items on test and posted their stats and progs on changes - nearly all of which were shot down for being too OP. Morl, Vaerick and Anume gave their opinions (Naruthiron wasn't staff yet, Tongar and Grimulfr abstained). Counter-proposals were made, changes agreed upon.

 

- Implementation: Once a consensus is reached and the changes made, it's moved from test port to main and noted on the Change Thread. In this example the items were ported over, and the cabal powers suggestions placed in the Herald Rework thread to be added to that discussion.

 

Sometimes we don't agree. In such cases, discussions drag on until a suitable compromise can be found. Only in very rare circumstances is a decision reached while someone still holds significant qualms.

 

Some argue that staff transparency is an issue. Why don't we share everything with the players, or get them involved in the decision-making process? Often we do, as outlined above. We don't always bring them in to the 'live' discussion, but we take their input in to consideration. The reason we make decisions instead of leaving it up to a pure democracy is the same reason governments don't - it's impossible. It's hard enough, sometimes, for five people with all the information to agree. Fifty people with some information - or wrong information - will never get anything done. We don't share all aspects of the game as a design decision.

 

What if you don't agree with a decision? In that case you're free to express your thoughts. That's the point of the ideas/suggestions, polls, and prayer thread. Three forums dedicated to your input. This doesn't mean that the administration will implement all your ideas, but we undoubtedly do read and consider all of them.

 

Some recent examples of changes brought up by players:

- Herald EQ

- Quest changes and adjustments (most recently Gorgorak drops, Ayluin quest, Human quest line).

- Edges (currently in discussion)

- Changes to the Q-A workshop and how it's run.

- Merchant 'sale' command

- Mage gear (adding more on test, will be in with future areas)

 

And many, many more. In short, anyone who asserts that imms make decisions soley based on their own opinions, without consideration for players or their wishes is knowingly disseminating false information.

 

Game Design and Theory:

Due to the way we run things at FL, no one design theory outstrips any other. Each administrator has their idea of how the game should be run, and we make our suggestions and proposals based on those ideas. We have a foundation in tradition. but we've departed radically from that in recent years. I will share my own design theory here, since it's the only one I'm qualified to express.

 

When Anume approached me to offer a spot on the staff, she asked what I could offer. I told her that my primary focus has been and always will be the state of RP in game, and the state of community in the forums. Those two aspects of the game have always been closest to my heart. I am no PK monster, nor will I ever be. We have other imms who excel there. I remember thinking that I wanted to be like Luqin - an imm who was an RP presence, that brought the story of the game to life.

 

But those are more specific. In general, my compass for game design is the narrative. The first question I ask when looking at a proposal is 'how does this meld with the spirit of the game. and it's story.' This is why in some responses to player inquiries you'll receive a response like the one in the above thread - where the proposed change would undermine the spirit of the game.

 

What is that spirit? To me, Aabahran is a dynamic world rich in history. There are possibilities, but there are also rules and restrictions. It can be magical as much as it can be punishing. To me, all of these are important and make FL more than a time-waster. My hope is that it's an investment which returns incredible experiences if you delve in to it.

 

I love sandbox games. Fallout (Bathesda's) in particular, and anyone who walked through Rheydin after Sepahoona's demon gate could probably see the parallels. It's open, free, and when you walk through it you feel the world around you. The more immersed you get the less it's a game and the more it's an experience. I want that for FL, and we have a distinct advantage in that the code is only part of it. We can exist in a place where we have dozens of heroes changing the world.

 

But that's also a challenge. Fallout is a first persona game. your vault-dweller or courier ends up being an unstoppable force in the end. Skyrim is the same, as is almost any single-player experience. But we can't have that here. It's a place with winners, and where there are winners there must be losers.

 

But ask anyone who's taken an introductory class in creative writing; conflict is what makes a story. In any epic conflict propels the hero along the path to destiny. Fallout 3 you escape a mad overseer, Skyrim you flee Alduin, The Hobbit sees Bilbo drafted in to a group of drunkards and countless more examples. Conflict exists until it doesn't - and when it doesn't, the story's finished. Everyone wants to be the hero (or the supervillain), and I try to provide that experience in the world I build. However, sometimes we're minor supporting characters. Sometimes we're extras. But that doesn't mean we don't matter. It's part of our story, a chapter in a sweeping epic. We all want to win, but to design realistically I must understand that we can't always win. Losing can be as powerful - more powerful in a story's narrative.

 

To bring it back on topic, when making proposals or comments on the proposals of others, I cross-check it with the game's narrative. If it doesn't fit, I try to make it fit. If it just won't, I say no until something comes along that rectifies that.

 

A specific example would be the balance of PK and RP in the game. As mentioned above, I am an RPer. I don't PK, ever. I don't like to. However, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the power of PK in the game world. It is conflict - the real consequence underlying all actions we do in the game world. The fact that it is such a devisive subject on many proposals is indicative of how important it is. Without it, there would be no real impetus, no true conflict. And so I work to the best of my ability to build up RP to match PK, but not to remove or override this very basic aspect of the game.

 

Is PK a greater force than RP in our mud right now? Yes it is. PK is 'easy' - it's coded, it's rewards are easily identifiable, there are numbers to support it. RP is far more fluid, and it's rewards... or consequences... aren't as easily seen. We've made changes to combat this by making rewards more tangible with RP points, but there's only so far we can go. The burden of RP, how much it maters, is up to the player. I can build a rich, descriptive, living world. YOU decide to kill it or interact with it.

 

My job, and the one I focus on, is making the opportunities for RP. My design directive is to build the world in such a way as the story sucks you in. We have other imms who focus on PK, the nuts and bolts, and more. We all work together, the staff, the players. That's how the game is designed.

[f0xx]

That's all fine and nice Volg, the way you put it.

But you are forgetting one small detail here - almost ALL of the IMMs that have been in the management of the game in one stage or another have abused their positions in one way or another.

From Viri through Bahrens to Zhokril.

[edit] I will skip the list...

The only IMMs that I actually trust are Anume (because she's been around for a long time) and you (because you don't actually care about PK).

And by trusting, I mean that you two try to be as fair as possible and are not intentionally trying to bend the game in your favour.

But then, you're just a man who doesn't care about PK, and she is just a... woman 

(Yes, I know I will suffer about this).

 

 

So sometimes, just sometimes.... allow us to question your decisions.

 

[Erelei]

I don't know if I should be offended or relieved I wasn't included in your pass over list, f0xx, but I play by the book and have a special thread where I post exact changes in for the immortals when it's done to make sure it's transparent and obvious I don't make changes for my own gain.

That said, I rarely have a character last a month now, because I work so often and the only time I get to do anything would be to fix bugs and code for everyone here.

[Volgathras]

This was not about questioning decisions. This was about how decisions are made. By all means, raise your points. As I outlined, we listen. But when people do so for no other purpose other than to incite disunity, or willfully foster an environment of 'us versus them' that is unacceptable.

[f0xx]

I don't know if I should be offended or relieved I wasn't included in your pass over list, f0xx, but I play by the book and have a special thread where I post exact changes in for the immortals when it's done to make sure it's transparent and obvious I don't make changes for my own gain.

That said, I rarely have a character last a month now, because I work so often and the only time I get to do anything would be to fix bugs and code for everyone here.

 

I only skipped you and some other IMMs because you guys are fairly new to the staff. In the end, time will show.

[mya]

This is very interesting, I never tough FL was a Triumvirate.

 

"What if you don't agree with a decision? In that case you're free to express your thoughts."

The problem is that sometimes we don't know that a decision was made, and a change implemented.

We not knowing what goes up there is a normal and expected thing. But not informing the players when something is changed/implemented creates attrition.

Because eventually the players will find out (some faster than others) and people will start to ask themselves why was it keep hidden from them.

No one likes to play a game where the rules change invisibly. Specially one where a death can set us back 10 hours. (Good thing people no longer full loot.)

And if people don't agree with the "change", it being invisible will just pile up and make people more vocal.

 

It would be so easy to make an IMM only log where once something is implemented, a single line explanation is written that is acceptable to mortal eyes. Then once a month just post the new lines (mortal acceptable lines) in the change log in the main forums.

 

 

 

[P_body]

I like Mya's idea. There have been multiple instances where something changed, but wasn't announced because it's going to be included in the next set of release notes, but that might not come for awhile, so having some place where we can see the incremental changes as we go along, would be awesome. I believe that sometimes the Staff implement things unofficially on the main port to test it in the field, as it were, to see if it makes a noticeable difference. This idea would throw a wrench in that testing phase, but I think the players would really appreciate something along these lines. Aka a more incremental update of any change put to the main port the same day-ish it was placed on main. 

 

Don't want to add extra work to the staff. But that info should already be recorded incrementally somewhere right? 

[Volgathras]

I never tough FL was a Triumvirate.

 

Only in so much as a final, binding decision needs to be made. Most of the time the staff comes to a consensus. A triumvirate implies three people run everything, and that simply isn't true as outlined above. Three people are department heads, but the staff acts as a board of directors.

 

 

...not informing the players when something is changed/implemented creates attrition.

 

 

We always inform the players of all changes, just not right away. Due to the way the game is built and run (ports, live, small group, various play times) the best method to enacting changes is to do them directly on main port and watch the result, tweaking as a necessary.

 

The two methods we can use are:

A.)  Make all changes to coder and test ports FIRST, then port over both to main together with a huge bundle of (possibly unstable and completely untested) changes or

B.)  Post these directly to main and place the change line live to a public thread.

 

The issue with B would lie in several spheres. First, it would be largely disorganized. As it stands the current change log is in our changes forum, easily identified by title and date. The changes are posted with additional notes for imms which couldn't be posted on main. Also, if something needs to be tweaked or changed, we can't do it as effectively if the players already expect the one - then people get upset because we changed things again and the whole thing starts over. That's assuming people check the change thread religiously for changes. You would have to, in this iteration, if you wanted the information right away. It's almost guaranteed that people would let a long time period lapse before reading, or only read when a change clearly affects them specifically. In that way it would be no different than the system we have in place now.

 

Changes we implement are rarely so large that would result in someone's death from ignorance. If a change is that significant we usually place a change note in-game. If for some reason a change does result in a negative impact for a player, they are welcome to post their argument and supporting evidence on the prayer forum. Ninety-nine times out of a hundred we reimburse deaths or lost items, so long as the supporting evidence is solid.

 

Question: Why do change logs take so long?

A fair question. We have a target deadline for change-logs, usually over the span of a couple months. However, these deadlines are fluid. The reasons for this are many, and you know most of them.

 

Firstly, sometimes we go a long stretch with no changes whatsoever. Unlike WoW or LoL we can't dedicate ourselves fully to changes and updates as much as we'd like, so there are dry spells. In those cases we let time lapse until we feel there's a generous amount of changes. As mentioned above, if any of those changes are so different or game-changing that they'd negatively impact a character, we post a change log in game.

 

Second, some of these changes need to be monitored, tested and tweaked over a period of time to ensure they are working properly or in the best interest of the game. Sometimes this takes a while, if the change affects a niche group. I feel the playerbase would benefit more and be less confused by a singular change line we know works than several wherein we appear to 'change our minds.'

 

Third, we also have target changes we want to go in together. Because these changes are often worked on by different people they sometimes don't sync. For example, tying a new area with a new race/class. In those cases we have to wait for all projects to be completed before we post the change log. The area might go 'live' on main first while we finish off the race, but they're intended to go together for continuity of the game lore, and so the change log must reflect that.

 

The current change log hasn't been posted yet because there are changes we wanted to add to it as a bundle. Unfortunately we've gone past deadline, and so we must decide whether we want to keep pushing it back, or put out an 'incomplete' change log with a soon-to-be-released change omitted until the next change log several months in the future.

[Grimulfr]

No one suspects the Watcher Imm… Who is, in reality, the biggest cheat of all! 

 

Bahahahahahaha!

[The Forsaken]

Actually I think most of us just forgot about you.

[Grimulfr]

Part of my scheme.

[The Forsaken]

It's all good. Hippies are off the grid anyways.

[The Professor]

personally, I think our current Imm staff is the best we've ever had. we, now more than ever, are heard as a player-base. of course, that's just my opinion. I understand that we all have our own individual experiences, but I feel that, as diverse and demanding as we are, that the Imms actually care - not just about the game, mind you, but the player-base. not insinuating anyone is being ungrateful, but it does seem that we, the player-base, aren't being as understanding/forgiving/patient with the 'staff' as we expect/want them to be with us.

the hardest thing is accepting that our views, though voiced and listened to/read, will not always be agreed upon by the staff. I would like to think, as idealistic as I may be, that no one here wishes ill for FL. so whatever is suggested or purposed by a player is meant to enhance the game, not for them alone, but for everyone. that being said, the Imms hold the position of determining whether or not the aforementioned suggestions should be implemented. which is just one of their many responsibilities. obviously they're not going to be able to please everyone, but it does, from my perspective, seem like they try to. I've made a lot of suggestions over the years. I'm well aware just because I believe something to be better my way, doesn't actually mean it is. simply put, believing in something doesn't make it true. (I see the irony in that statement considering the point of this post )

the character most people know I play isn't pk oriented, that doesn't mean I haven't/don't play characters that are. I know tweaks to skills/spells can prove to be a 'bump in the road' certainly against a particularly tough opponent. though, I can't say I have ever known something like that to be a singular cause for defeat. asking on the prayer section about these sort of issues, in my experience, proves fruitful. (I'm satisfied with the current method of change-logs and updates - don't get me wrong, I'm just as excited as anyone else when they eventually do come out. but, I feel it's the sort of thing that is well worth the wait.) so, given our options and mediums for grievances, the Imms shouldn't be made to feel as though they're not doing things fast enough - that they're not being as forthcoming as we want them to be... (they're people too) especially when we've had more changes and insight into future changes than we've ever had. that old adage "give an inch and they take a mile" comes to mind.

the Imms don't need someone to come to their defense, as their efforts speak for them, and I may come across as a kiss-ass to the player-base (which my post is really directed toward). if that's the case, so be it. I just wanted to state/convey that we, the player-base, could exercise more patience and understanding. (end rant)

Edited January 15, 2015 by The Professor

[Mali]

Volg, could you summarize your original post in 250 characters or less?

Edited January 15, 2015 by Mali

[Mali]

Foxx, why are you the way you are?

[egreir]

Because I ruined his soul.

[Aulian]

This imm staff rocks. 

 

We haven't had a collection of Imms who have taken so much of an interest in keeping this mud running and advancing through additions in balance, areas etc. 

 

Don't get me wrong, we have had amazing immortals over time, Malch, Bryntryst, Sirant, Viri, Crypt, Zork,... But never have we had a collection working together since the days of the founding of the MUD when everyone was working around the clock to bring this place together and to make it better. We're incredibly lucky.

 

We're incredibly lucky that FL even STILL EXISTS. The amount of near misses we've had which could of led to the closing of FL is incredible, literally a cat with nine lives. 

 

I try and donate as often as I can - but I don't expect a vote on what happens - it dont work like that with personal property (which this mud is).. We're lucky we have a staff who are so open, understanding and actually care about our vision for the game. 

 

 

2c

Edited January 28, 2015 by Aulian

[Iyorvin]

I had to chuckle about this thread. 

 

The game has survived. That's a huge accomplishment in its own right. After all, the post Viri period was a a HORRIBLE stagnation period in which I would NEVER have put money on this game surviving. There was a point in time where the staff was so AFRAID to bring in a coder for fear of............................well I'm not sure exactly.

 

I thought about making a big long post, but instead, I just really want to express, from someone who has been here since near the start, that everyone still playing this game has by FAR the best staff the game has ever utilized. That's right. Better than Viri, Crypt, and certainly better than the great depression that followed. I certainly wish that I had this level of dedication from the staff when I was in my prime, but it is still a wonderful thought that at this stage of my FL career, I know when I have 'the great idea' that brings me back for another character, that the current imms are open minded enough to reward hard work and good RP. 

 

I believe that a lot of the issues are player driven. Leftover resentment and hate from previous years. Take a step back and realize how much better the staff and state of the game is now when compared to the past. 

[Naruthiron]

The way the staff has evolved over the years I have played is probably the largest reason I still play this game. Even when I was Supernoob the Unlearning, Acolyte of the Epic Fail, they worked with me and helped me to better myself as a person so that I could in turn better myself as a player. That is no exaggeration, by the way. When I started, I was everything I see that irks me today. But because of the imm staff, old and new, I've been able to develop into a much happier player. And that's how it should be. Games should make you happy.

Speaking more to this current staff, there is a lot that happens that we don't, and can't, make public that really goes a very long way to solidify my love of the rest of the staff. You can really see that they pour their hearts and souls into making this game enjoyable for all, even if its costs them precious time, energy, and a little joy of their own. It's incredibly humbling to read through the many conversations that have taken place over the years, and it has given me tremendous insight as to just how I want to be, as an immortal.

When the people above say that this is the best imm staff they have seen, I have to agree. From Anume to Vaerick, Volgathras to Vaerick, Morlhach to Grimulfr... It's a fantastic group of extremely motivated and compassionate people; and I would know. Compassion is sort of my thing. 

 

If ever anyone feels that your opinions aren't taken into consideration with the direction of this game, allow me to preemptively say "WRONG!" and shake my head. Even with the months I've been on the team spent reading through the evolution of the game and the discussions between imms, I still have a very long way to go before I've read it all - and that's just what's been talked out on this forum. The immortal team we have is fantastic, and truly care about the players as much as they do the game. 

And then there's me. I just sit there and channel my inner grammar nazi on all of your description checks and break people's characters while trying to fix them.

 

K, but seriously guys, might as well start linking this to /r/circlejerk 

[Malchaeius]

So what you guys are saying is that the staff got soft?

 

 

Curses.

[Aulian]

So what you guys are saying is that the staff got soft?

 

 

Curses.

 

 

Psshhhhh... Don't act all tough now. 

[Clavo]

I wonder what family feud brought this thread to life. I might have to roll something to hear it through witful rp and interperetations. Hehe

[Aulian]

I wonder what family feud brought this thread to life. I might have to roll something to hear it through witful rp and interperetations. Hehe

 

 

Wow, aren't all the rats appearing out of the woodwork?

[Magick]

Wow, aren't all the rats appearing out of the woodwork?

 

Must be fleeing a sinking ship somewhere.