Sleepy Arrows Discussion

[Unknown Criminal]

 

Someone please assassinate one of UC's characters so we can get a discussion on that skill

 

I bring up mages need a little tweak and then sleepy arrows and all the sudden im 'that guy', lol

[Atticus]

Shit, ill bring a ninja back. I'll let them stand on the forest awake unblind lol.

[Anume]

You can save vs arrow sleep btw. If someone got the right saves, it will be very very hard to sleep them.

Also, as was being said, the ranger can't spell you up while you sleep.

 

No more missile scrolls.

Also keep in mind affect arrows are that paths' signature skill.

 

I see no balance issues here currently.

[Cephirus]

Honestly, I do not see an issue with Sleep arrows as they are. Every character that is vulnerable to being blackjacked/strangled should have herbal brews, and they are a simple solution to this issue. In fact, I would even use the herbal brews to poison me, so as not to be affected by the rangers stronger poison arrow.

[Ellwyn]

The only problem I've ever run into with sleep arrows was as a GLADIATOR. No missle protection scrolls usable. Even using herbal brews, the act of sleep even for  a second dispels the stance. Was easily repeated over and over for free un-stanced murder rounds.

[Naruthiron]

The typical gladiators all have a skill from their respective classes that helps against ranged weapons. 

Certain saves lower the chance of being put to sleep.

Herbal brews also work wonders.



I see no reason that sleep arrows should be changed. They have plenty of counter-play, and if the issue is that a person fails to protect themselves in an applicable matter, then that is not a reflection of the skill in question needing to be tweaked, rather an area of growth for the player to expand on in the future. Which is a nice way of saying "It's not broken if it only works very well against the unprepared."

If anything, ranger arrows are too weak in certain areas. But that is a different topic.

[Celerity]

Let's put on a timer on wake for zero hours of no sleep. That way you can't just wake/where/sleep. Stops all forms of sleep lock too Bahahaha.

[dewaholic]

I would suggest playing an archer and experimenting. You may find the frequency at which the sleep lands in PvP surprising. The most reliable tactic I have found with sleep arrows is to use them long enough to get someone to poison themselves and then switch to disease or flaming arrows. Mostly so I don't have to poison them myself.

[mya]

My input.

I don't see why sleeping arrows are the only sleeping effect that doesn't has the timer that prevents it's spam on success like every OTHER sleeping skill. DK cleave, Necro sleep, Qclass stuff x3. I even think Bard Knockout has this (not sure cause never landed on PC).

And none of them work in combat like Arrows do. A ranger can sleep someone he is fighting, all others require out of combat application.

 

The most dangerous use of sleep arrows, is the sanctuary waiting game. A ranger double murder round with pets can take 50% of the HP of a sleeping mage who had his sanctuary fall.

 

I also don't understand how rangers can shoot L50 plague, poison as meeles automatically. It's a shaman wet dream to be doing their stuff while something casts this mals automatically on their opponent every round (rapid fire).

 

In my view the mana per arrows shot should increase. And distance shots (cross-room) should grow exponentially. If you are casting a L50 plague every round at least pay the mana for it. Perhaps this way higher INT(mana) races would be better archers.

 

There is a reason why most rangers are archers. It's because the PB perceives them as the most powerful ranger path, a good indication that they are indeed the most powerful path.

[Erelei]

I'll roll an archer ranger and use them to the best of their applicable ability per code - if I steamroll the player base, or if I see something I think needs balanced, I'll balance it.

Give me a few weeks.

Any suggestions as to race? Human perhaps? Or the more obviously picked ogre?

[Aulian]

My input.

I don't see why sleeping arrows are the only sleeping effect that doesn't has the timer that prevents it's spam on success like every OTHER sleeping skill. DK cleave, Necro sleep, Qclass stuff x3. I even think Bard Knockout has this (not sure cause never landed on PC).

And none of them work in combat like Arrows do. A ranger can sleep someone he is fighting, all others require out of combat application.

 

The most dangerous use of sleep arrows, is the sanctuary waiting game. A ranger double murder round with pets can take 50% of the HP of a sleeping mage who had his sanctuary fall.

 

I also don't understand how rangers can shoot L50 plague, poison as meeles automatically. It's a shaman wet dream to be doing their stuff while something casts this mals automatically on their opponent every round (rapid fire).

 

In my view the mana per arrows shot should increase. And distance shots (cross-room) should grow exponentially. If you are casting a L50 plague every round at least pay the mana for it. Perhaps this way higher INT(mana) races would be better archers.

 

There is a reason why most rangers are archers. It's because the PB perceives them as the most powerful ranger path, a good indication that they are indeed the most powerful path.

 

 

Firstly its really not a L50 plague, so lets not go there. All of the spells can be saved against too.

 

Secondly - with a single scroll you negate a rangers entire path - almost every selectable skill they have available to them is suddenly removed - just cause you spent 18k gold? Pulleeezzze.

 

Can you please tell me Mya when was the last time you were killed by a Archer Ranger with one of your mages? 

 

 

If a ranger is sleeping you to death every round, you are, and I repeat this, doing something EXCEPTIONALLY wrong.

 

Only very few bows shoot through doors. Find a door. This will help with pets too, pets also do not have a lot of health. 90% of mages are attrition classes. Use some attrition.

 

 

In fact I want to add, I don't think people should be able to return fire cross 9 rooms. Its my ranger class, why is a warrior returning fire, out damaging me and he isn't a bloody Archer!

[Aulian]

I'll roll an archer ranger and use them to the best of their applicable ability per code - if I steamroll the player base, or if I see something I think needs balanced, I'll balance it.

Give me a few weeks.

Any suggestions as to race? Human perhaps? Or the more obviously picked ogre?

 

 

I would suggest halfling but you've nerfed them into uselessness. Please give me a tiny ranger who gets bashlocked to death by gnome warriors with 0 added benefits besides some dex. 

[Magick]

My input.

I don't see why sleeping arrows are the only sleeping effect that doesn't has the timer that prevents it's spam on success like every OTHER sleeping skill. DK cleave, Necro sleep, Qclass stuff x3. I even think Bard Knockout has this (not sure cause never landed on PC).

And none of them work in combat like Arrows do. A ranger can sleep someone he is fighting, all others require out of combat application.

 

The most dangerous use of sleep arrows, is the sanctuary waiting game. A ranger double murder round with pets can take 50% of the HP of a sleeping mage who had his sanctuary fall.

 

I also don't understand how rangers can shoot L50 plague, poison as meeles automatically. It's a shaman wet dream to be doing their stuff while something casts this mals automatically on their opponent every round (rapid fire).

 

 

 

Wait.  You don't understand why ranger sleep arrows don't have a timer?  I thought that was answered several times already.  They can do nothing to you without waking you up aside from scattering/killing your pets.  Two classes and four cabals have to worry about that.  All the others you've listed (DK's, Necro's, etc) can light you up like a Christmas tree while you're sleeping.

True, none of them work in combat like the arrow, but hey, they can also do a lot more to you while you're out as mentioned previous.

 

I agree that the the most dangerous use of sleep arrows is the buff duration waiting game.

 

You're mistaken if you think poison/plague arrows are cast at L50, Mya.  Saves play a factor as well as vulnerabilities and resistances.  Shooting sleepy arrows at a vulnerable race is much more effective.

 

There is a reason why most rangers are archers. It's because the PB perceives them as the most powerful ranger path, a good indication that they are indeed the most powerful path.

 

 

 

I'd be willing to say that they're the most versatile in a number of situations, not that they're the "best" or "most powerful".  Trackers serve their purpose.  Beastmasters are limited to three cabals if they want to make the most of cabal and path skills, one of which is restricted in PK.  Both solid choices though.

[Erelei]

Halfling it is.

[Anume]

Sidenote: I still say let's give beast masters the choice of a third pet that is not a raven and see how that works balance wise. (no two pets of the same kind)

[mya]

I strangely agree Anume. Knowing it will bite my mages.

Perhaps add some Magical vulnerability to some of the pets. Mages can't hit Bash and pierce very well.
And perhaps remove the charm immunity which makes no sense, and ruins Necromancers sleep.

 

Name: a large mammoth   Rank: 50
Immune    : charm
Resistant : bash cold
Vulnerable: pierce

Name: a large spotted leopard   Rank: 50
Immune    : charm
Resistant : cold
Vulnerable: bash
You have become better at analyze!

[Magick]

.... or new animal that can only be called by a beastmaster? Hmm?  Hmm?

[Aulian]

Sidenote: I still say let's give beast masters the choice of a third pet that is not a raven and see how that works balance wise. (no two pets of the same kind)

 

So basically offer a displacer instead of a raven.

[Unknown Criminal]

Halfling it is.

 

Ive always thought stone giants made the best rangers(still do imo), orges are my second choice if an align is needed, then halfling. Your strength

as a halfling will depend on what classes are sitting at 50, if its all zerks and warriors you might be in trouble but thats not the case

 

UC

[f0xx]

So basically offer a displacer instead of a raven.

 

 

Or wyvern.

[mya]

1º Missile shield does not fully protects you from archers Aulian. And can't be bought while wanted. It's also extremely expensive. It costs 22000+ gold coins.

2º "Firstly its really not a L50 plague, so lets not go there. All of the spells can be saved against too."
But it is. I got plagued by Zaiis for 10 hours with a -5 STR penalty. It may not have the duration of the shaman spell plague but it has the same level. Meaning it checks saves at L50. That -5 STR there is L50/10. Even DK's don't get -5 STR, just -3 STR.

3º "Can you please tell me Mya when was the last time you were killed by a Archer Ranger with one of your mages? "
It may come as a surprise to you, but rangers are the class that kills more of my mages.

4º "Only very few bows shoot through doors. Find a door. This will help with pets too, pets also do not have a lot of health. 90% of mages are attrition classes. Use some attrition."
Doors and corners help. I agree. But the attrition mages are communers. Not the pure mage classes.

[Trick]

I feel like people argue just to argue anymore...

[f0xx]

I feel like people argue just to argue anymore...

 

Cel made a very good Meme on the matter:

 

 

 

 

Ho ho.

[The Forsaken]

Yes. Raven is near worthless. It pretty much kills the beastmaster's 'super perk.' I don't think that a displacer beast or perhaps wyvern would tip the scales too much in their favor. Even then I think you'd still see more archers and trackers than beastmasters.

[Unknown Criminal]

PLEASE let them have a better third pet!