From an RP perspective

[Sandbox]

Why is it acceptable that people constantly poison themselves on purpose? Is there something that could be added that achieves the same results, but doesn't require this course of action?

[Diten]

Avoiding certain death is the reason that works best for my mind. Plenty of people today poison themselves to feel high, why not to survive a potential assassination?

[f0xx]

I've always felt funny when people try to stomp on balance for realism's sake.

[Sandbox]

Nobody is stomping on balance. Refer to the part where I asked if we could achieve the same balance mechanic without everyone looking suicidal...

[Diten]

Unfortunately there are just some oddities we have to live with. Training counter, for example

[f0xx]

Poison is used in many different games to keep yourself conscious against classes that can otherwise put in you a state where you are helpless and then do other nasty things to you while you are in that state. FL is not a pioneer in this instance.

That being said, the idea of poison in FL, as in many other games, is not to kill to begin with. It is to cut one's regeneration.

Besides, preparing to fight a thief and not poisoning yourself looks more suicidal to me than drinking a brew that hurts you for 15 hp per tick.

[Sandbox]

Except excessive use of poison leads to death. While it translates to you as 15 hp per tick. To me it translates to a guy walking around drinking antifreeze downtown on the off chance someone might knock him out.

[Diten]

Not antifreeze, think chemotherapy that combats the cancer from all those Psis digging around in your brain.

[Magick]

Except excessive use of poison leads to death. 

 

Read up on Mithridates VI.

If done right, IE: taking doses that won't kill you, you'll build up a resistance.  Probably depends on the poison, too.

[f0xx]

To me it translates to a...

I respect YOUR opinion and point of view.

[Dale]

What about getting knocked in the head then using a cabal ability to make that feeling last forever so you can't be knocked out again?

[Sandbox]

This part I get, may cultures advocated body mutilation for the sake of combat, Persians come to mind.  But, just because I don't get something, doesn't mean it is bad or wrong.

[dewaholic]

I also agree with having something else to prevent sleep but for different reasons. If your a class that can poison, having someone inflict a less effective poison is kind of a setback. I can see this being especially prevolant with Lotus Ninja or a shaman where the poison is either vastly stronger or lasts five times longer than your standard brew. Of course I have never played a lotus ninja or a shaman to 50 so I may be way off base here.

 

I propose three things. First make something else that can replace the intended effect of poisoning yourself to preserve game balance in that respect. Second, make the current self inflicted poisons do damage without waking you from a forced sleep. Lastly, make a more powerful (higher level) poison overwrite a less powerful one, which would then wake people as they are not self inflicted.

[Trick]

If you start playing around with stuff for realism sake it's going to get messy. Besides that, the brews are totally realistic anyways. There are countless pills, medicines, teas, brews, drinks, injections, radiation, and more that have a negative affect on the body to prevent another, more dangerous affect.

[Sandbox]

That is true.

[Fool_Hardy]

jmho

there ARE other avenues, the brews were just an easy implementation that allowed access to every class at low levels.

 

Its like the old wives tale, you can ease a toothache by placing a clothespin on the large toe on the same side of the body because the nerves are connected. Or, running through fire to escape the burning building. Sometimes, we must accept the lesser of two injuries in order to survive. Would you rather lose a finger or your head?

 

From an RP perspective, answer truthfully.

 

Edit: Easy implementation alternative. Syntax: Selfmutilization   Effect: Bleeding 4 ticks, followed by a cooldown where you fear to cut yourself of 3 ticks. Available to all.

[The Forsaken]

I'm good for a timer on how long you can consecutively poison yourself. I'm sure many necros, thieves, psions, and ninjas will agree.

[Dale]

The skill I described in my earlier post will just be used to take advantage of that aswell.

[mya]

I'm good for a timer on how long you can consecutively poison yourself. I'm sure many necros, thieves, psions, and ninjas will agree.

 

Thieves have ways around brew poison.

Psions and brew poison are Ok.

Necros aren't really dependent on sleep.

Ninjas, everything they can do to sleeped opponent they can do to a woken opponent, they just take damage. They may be the worst affected.

Also Thieves and Ninjas are surprise classes. If they know you are coming they should have a penalty.

 

So I don't agree.

[The Professor]

since a lot of the sleep classes use poison themselves, it would be reasonable to think poisoning yourself to prevent being put to sleep offered a danger of its own. e.g. would/could stack with or be enhanced by other poisons. a degree where it would still be better than the alternative of being put to sleep, but enough of a risk and detriment that it would be used more sparingly. simply enough, maybe brew could do a bit more damage. *shrug*

I prefer a concept of poison being strengthened and/or prolonged by the use of poison skills/spells. poison yourself with brew and the Necro, Ninja, DK, Thief would find their initial poison landing easier... with slightly increased damage and duration. 

[Mmm Coffee]

The only gripe I have with herbal brews is they don't apply a -STR penalty like the spell would.  I think there should be a -2 STR penalty with herbal brews.

[Magick]

Herbal brews also don't affect all races equally (dwarves and duergar) and last only 3 hours.

[f0xx]

Yes, that's a big downside for dwarves, duergars and halflings, to an extend, and it's why they used to be successful as blademasters, since those don't need brews. It's a very well thought out balance mechanism.