Newcomer's perspective.

[Fool_Hardy]

We need to think of a way to get more vets on newbie chat.

Newbie chat can be applied for. As a vet if you would like to aid the new players it only takes a prayer.

pray "{your god here} let me guide the new souls in Aabahran that they may one day learn to follow you, let me hear their plees and aid them as I may."

[Cephirus]

Not to derail the thread, but as long as players do not abuse it as Anume indicated in her post, having those higher level mobs has been instrumental for my being able to level my characters into the 30's as quickly and easily as I have. Otherwise, it ends up taking a very long time.

 

Mird- As a long time veteran, I appreciate that you have taken the time to offer your view and experience on things, and offered suggestions. I hope that you continue to do so, so that the game will continue to grow and improve.

[mird]

What's the current position about neutral monks ?

I was sure monks are neutral only before I rolled one.

I found discussion and poll from year 2013, with common conclusion(imo) that there is no reason for this restriction.

 

Monk looks very appealing after adventurer.

You don't need to bother about finding proper weapons over and over while leveling.

You are save from nastiest blind/disarm combo, which shuts down your offense AND defense simultaneously. 

Skills are very few and a lot of defencive stances feel good for the first character.

 

Ban of neutrality kinda outweighs  all these advantages, because of the risk of becoming outcast accidentally or being involved in some cabal wars.

One of the three neutral cabals are for neutral characters only and neutral cabals are the most appealing for the first time.

 

.

[Aulian]

We need to think of a way to get more vets on newbie chat.

 

 

I always join newbie chat with my pinns. Well almost always. 

 

To be honest the inflow of newbies is not very large

[Magick]

Ban of neutrality kinda outweighs  all this advantages, because of the risk of becoming outcast or being involved in some cabal wars.

One of the three neutral cabals are for neutral characters only and neutral cabals are the most appealing for the first time.

 

 

 

I'm not going to touch the monk portion of your statement as this falls heavily in with balance and the Imms and other experienced monk players would be able to provide a much better and perhaps more detailed answer.

 

Instead.

Not exactly true that there are only three cabals neutrals can join.  If anyone is restricted in this, it's good aligned people.  I would like to add that alignment preference is heavily dependent on the person.  My first couple characters were evil to the core because I thought it would be the most fun.  Additionally, neutral does not mean easier nor less PK oriented.  They're not like Switzerland (trying to be independent from conflict) or France (everyone's punching bag  ).  If I had to put a country analogy with them, it'd be more like the US in WWII.  Though the US didn't directly mobilize forces, they still supported the Allies through industrial means.  Then when the US was directly attacked, stepping up and kicking ass was "morally acceptable".  More recently, the good reason was to liberate Iraq from tyranny.

Disclaimer: I speak of 'official' reasons, not apparent reasons - it wasn't to spark a political debate.

 

 

Cabal alignments:

 

Savant - G/N/E

Warmaster - G/N/E

 

Knight - G

Nexus - E

 

Watcher - N

Tribunal - G/N/E

 

Syndicate - N/E

Merchant - N/E

Herald - G/N/E

 

All cabals can be at war with all other cabals, but some are hardcoded to have a permanent vendetta which is the way the above is grouped, with the exception of Syndicate/Merchant and Herald.  Those three (two really, as Merchant is grouped with Syndicate) have no hardcoded vendetta.  If you're joining a cabal, you can just about expect to be involved in some sort of cabal warfare.

 

I see the Watcher/Tribunal as the most vicious of the hardcoded vendetta's, strangely enough.  Might be because of all the yelling in town while a raid is ongoing.

 

If you want to join a more reactive rather than proactive cabal, you're left with Merchant and Herald, both of which accept neutrals.

[mird]

Wow, I was sure that the enemy of tribunal  is syndicate, not watcher and vendetta is based upon law and crime.

[H&R]

Tribunal has two hard coded vendettas. Watcher and Syndicate. So, yeah, it's not a cakewalk to uphold the law

[Anume]

Tribunal - Syndicate USED TO BE a hardcoded vendetta.

It was removed about 3 (or maybe even 5?) years ago, with the following statements:

- Syndi will fight a war anyway to improve their cp gain via raids  -> result after 3 years of testing: mostly not true.

- Syndi is required to go after bounties, that is basically the same as cabal wf  -> result: hard bounties are mostly ignored. If I see this as the cabal Imm, I usually push them a bit in the right direction. Overall very very few syndis always try to collect any bounty at least once (= try to retrieve at least once in cabal wf), so not true.

- Syndi will be often at war with tribunal anyway, so the tribunal skills and armor which were designed to fight TWO wars, will not be imbalanced. -> not true. See how hard Watcher struggles.

- Players need more freedom to design cabal politics to their wishes, they will fight some wars and not just avoid any conflict to be comfortable. -> obviously, not true. (After 3 years of trial, this is also the hugest argument against completely player run cabals.)

 

That said, the staff currently is discussing how to handle the problem. The hardcoded vendetta might come back OR trib gear / skills might get a tone down AND syndi will get hardcoded penalties for ignoring bounties.

 

If you as players would like to chirp in with some suggestions, please do so on a separate thread. This was just to clarify the current situation.

[Insepiddeception]

I think even though Tribunal have only one hard coded vendetta currently, their skills and armor are still applicable considering that In essence you could be 'in war' with any number of the cabals depending on the individuals outlook on the laws and how they feel about them. On the flipside I would look more into their enemy, The Watchers and consider a boost in their armor and skills to entice more able bodies. With Syndicate I see them as a shadowy mob with the resources to keep the coppers off their backs for the most part until it is time to collect a bounty. 

 

just my two copper pieces

[mird]

@Anume

And what about neutral monks ?

[Fool_Hardy]

@mird Perhaps the trouble with neutral monks comes from the fact that the protection from evil/good spell does not diminish the damage from these monks, in effect causing them to be too powerful. Also, in my opinion, the easiest class to learn ALL of Aabahran with is was and always will be a healer. A well trained Healer can go almost anywhere alone, can Identify everything, can see traps, and retain multiple options for escape should things get too hard.

[mird]

@mird Perhaps the trouble with neutral monks comes from the fact that the protection from evil/good spell does not diminish the damage from these monks, in effect causing them to be too powerful. Also, in my opinion, the easiest class to learn ALL of Aabahran with is was and always will be a healer. A well trained Healer can go almost anywhere alone, can Identify everything, can see traps, and retain multiple options for escape should things get too hard.

 

Isn't protection double-edged?

They can't use it too.

[Erelei]

It's a long time issue of balance, and aabahran lore.

[mya]

I'm not sure adventurers need more time. For me they are good for learning basic mud commands, but to learn the mud layout one should learn it with a class. In fact I think the original premise of the adventurers was to learn this basic commands without the pressure of PK. Something that doesn't exists anymore. Now PK mostly happens at Pinacle range and sometimes at 30 with quest applicants.

All the he is learning on an adventurer he could learn on a real class, and while we could make arguments that Adventurers are better that some classes like Shamans for newbies, Adventurers aren't that great of a class and only teach the very basic of meele and damage spells. I also fear that players who spend to much time under the protective umbrella  of adventurers also will become frighted with the savageness of real PK.

 

Regarding best class for newbies. I used to say Clerics (because of curatives, sanctuary and food/water), then I started to say DKs because they teach about being a warrior and  spell casting (and lots of mob power). Now I just say, play what ever you like, you going to suck, better to have fun while sucking.

[Mmm Coffee]

@mird - Monks might seem like an easy class on paper, but in practice they require a considerable amount of luck and finesse play-style to be successful in PvP.

 

You will also lack many utility spells that make learning this world MUCH easier.  Spells such as detect invis, locate object, sanctuary, cure spells (yes you get healing but there's a huge cooldown timer), protective spells like armor/shield/sanctuary, and the fail-safe escape plan...word of recall.

 

This is why many suggest a cleric or healer.  I suggest a Savant battlemage which is able to explore and solo 99% of FL significantly faster than a cleric or healer.  They're naturally a bit tedious but with Savant cabal powers, they become the ultimate tanks.  Just my $0.02

[Dale]

I proudly broke the vendetta to Tribunal and Syndicate when I played Vindis.  Oppressant was the ruling factor over Tribunal at the time and well we eventually came to odds but the vendetta never came back.  It was about 4 years ago I'd say.

[Anume]

Removing the hard coded vendetta was a staff decision at the time (I did not agree with).

[mya]

I suggest a Savant battlemage which is able to explore and solo 99% of FL significantly faster than a cleric or healer.  They're naturally a bit tedious but with Savant cabal powers, they become the ultimate tanks.  Just my $0.02

 Battlemages (BMG's) have hellish unkeep. Not all players can keep track of all the spells that must be active most of the time.

DK's for me are the best learning class. Specially if you are going Journey man, as they only lack not having a identify spell. Something that Journeymen get for free ™Mya rymmor.

Amazing meele, better defense than a battlemage and charmy offense, cure HP, huge damage spells, summonable sanctuary, dirt kick, and extort for 5 fiver discount shoping. They only lack flight, but this is where Avians come in. With the added bonus of the anti-bash bonus. Low eq dependency with high EQ gains. Medium fast training time. Amazing solo hunting capability, and ...

Excuse me, I think I'm going to roll a DK.

 

PS: Bards and BLM are also amazing choices. And bards are not more complicated than casting, it's just replacing Cast for Sing and remember to be wielding an instrument that you can make from wood.

[Magick]

 Battlemages (BMG's) have hellish unkeep. Not all players can keep track of all the spells that must be active most of the time.

DK's for me are the best learning class. Specially if you are going Journey man, as they only lack not having a identify spell. Something that Journeymen get for free ™Mya rymmor.

 

 

 

 

Battlemages are good to learn how to juggle spells.  That's not a bad thing.

And Journeymen get identify for free?  Mya, you need to tell me who your dealer is because ... damn.

[Mmm Coffee]

@Mya - I'd love to see you solo places like Blood, Magic, Dischord, Desolation with a DK   Yes, BMG's have an upkeep and it's why I suggested Savant...the cabal equipment + powers + slow make mana regen practically a non-issue.

[mya]

I don't think any newbie is going to solo those places. What they are going to do is not notice when terra shield or force field falls while fighting something.

[Magick]

What they are going to do is not notice when terra shield or force field falls while fighting something.

 

 

 

And thus we learn.  Find the mistakes we do and correct them.

[Fool_Hardy]

Ok, spells drop. Most clients have triggers, I do not use triggers to recast as this will kill you if someone dispels you. I DO use triggers to HIGHLIGHT the phrase that warns my spell has dropped. A BRIGHT PURPLE Warning, is not only unmistakable, its real hard to miss. I had triggers to highlight when skills/spells improved but some really intelligent coder fixed this for me.

[Mali]

Thanks for your perspective!

[Aulian]

To be honest - play whatever the hell you want. 

 

As long as you find it fun who cares if its not the most survivable? If you're having fun you'll die 60 times and still be having fun.

 

Play something that someone recommends you and you don't like? You'll give up in no time. 

 

My first 50 was a half-elf monk in Knight that was literally Despisers malform fodder. I really wanted to play a monk so I stuck around and even made it pretty far in Knight and learnt a hell of a lot. 

 

And guess what - I'm still here. I didnt stop playing and go back to counterstrike instead.

 

 

Play whatever your feel like as long as you love it. The rest will fall into place in time.