Are Ranged Weapons OP for bards? Your opinions...

[Mmm Coffee]

I haven't played one past 15 myself, but I have traveled with several now.  I keep thinking the same thing when I see what they're capable of melee-wise (with all their songs) combined with near invoker-style song damage plus health AND mana healing, dirt kick, being able to craft awesome weapons (from what I've heard via forums and in-game - I haven't ID'd any).  It seems to me that the ranged weapons skill is over the top for bards in their current version.

 

One reason I can see is vs giant lagging-types because they can't sing.  But vs every other non-lagging class, they're damage output is crazy with the other perks above.  My idea is to get rid of ranged weapons and add a song that grants enlarge for x hours.  This helps bards with lag prevention and balances their damage output for the other classes.

 

What do you guys think?

[Fool_Hardy]

bash is horrible for bards

dirt kick, blind is horrible for bards

silence is horrible for bards

Not sure where I stand on the output damage of fired weapons, it accounts for very little of total damage output.

Would it make a difference to their ability to win if they lost it? I am not certain.

Perhaps one of the current pinned bards will make a couple of Warmaster challenges and Log them so we could see.

Hint, hint, Karisha.

[Imoutgoodbye]

I think...

 

I'm never going to stop laughing.

[Mali]

[f0xx]

Only op thing about bards is steal.

[Dale]

Make a moderate bard and steal everyones backpack.

[mya]

Till you get killed behind a no-pass no-pick door and get full looted.

 

Now really. My only concern about bards is that their weapon:

It appears to be a new weapon type.

It can get avg 30.

It appears to be able to hit vulns, like ice, light.

 

I think bards are to strong to have a vuln hiting avg 30 weapon that no one knows how to parry.

Remember Bards can still throw vuln cards, or use they special power.

 

I'm all up for an enlargement song.

 

I think Instruments should check parry known weapon type as an exotic. Since that is what they are.

That would make them on par with polearms, allowing them to maintain their defense yet not be overpowering offensively.

 

For me Bards are the new blademasters. Right up there should to shoulder with DK's as one of the most versatile/powerful classes.

A shame they got shifted from hybrid casters to no magic - full song.

 I'm waiting for a warmaster bard to show up and kick everyone's butt.

 

Curiously bards bane might be BMG's and BLM.

Battlemages with localized gravity for instrument disarm.

And Blademaster for critical blind + iron arm disarm (bards instruments are a pain to disarm).

 

 

[Atticus]

Bards need toned down, the end. My case- since dale brought me into this game.... Yeats ago. I've never seen 5 bards online, 3 pinned. There's a reason for that, they are pure evil.

[mya]

They need some minor tweeks,  not a hammer tone down.

 

You are right on the number of bards. Can't even get myself motivated to play my bard because there's a bard crazy out there.

 

Also:

 

 

POST MORE BARD PK LOGS!!!

 

So we call also enjoy people getting canned by bards .

[Fool_Hardy]

why not make that special bow nobard? instead if taking bows period.

also instruments can be avg 32 if you know what your doing.

While I agree they need some tweeks, I believe if we implemented other class ability to craft their own weapons the need to tone down bards would go away.

As to the number of bards, I like it. It means the nodes are less apt to be present, slowing the growth of the bards, adding craft to other classes would slow this more. JMHO

[Atticus]

There are at least 5 times more nodes, that respawn.... than starstone. Largely, their weapons cannot be parried, their "songs" saved against. The majority of people I speak with say bards are "op". Honestly, let's discuss how to tone them down.

[Erelei]

Honestly, let me see some proof instead of hearsay. I . NEED . LOGS .

[The Forsaken]

Uhh...the thing is there is no proof. I have yet to actually beat anyone of worth with my bard. Period. Invokers kick my ass. Warriors kick my ass. Rangers kick my ass. How many people have actually got killed at level 50 by a bard?

[The Forsaken]

From the original posters post, he is basing this off of PvE. Which bards actually DO excel at. I continually suck it up at PvP regardless of having some great gear.

[Dale]

I pick up at least ten slabs of starstone every time I play, I don't get your post or how it means anything.

[f0xx]

From the original posters post, he is basing this off of PvE. Which bards actually DO excel at. I continually suck it up at PvP regardless of having some great gear.

 

I give that more to player skill, than anything else.

 

Ha-ha.

 

Suck that.

[Fool_Hardy]

only one pk with a bard since revamp, level 33 bard vs level 30 dk, do not have log to show but I lost in four rounds, Bash, silence, death. Show me the Logs, Darion should have some one would think.

[Atticus]

Dale, as in nodes which allow bards to create weapons that can be on par with malforms or crusader weapons- are much more prevalent than starstone which I believe is needed for crusaders weapons. Such weapons no one else knows and requires no pk involvement to make them so strong.

I know we have our differences but picking at my posts whenever they appear is becoming old. At the risk of edit, I'd rather bury this axe to continue a discussion over a newly improved class, than to hold grudges after two years ago... over a character...

[Erelei]

I'll pick at your post.

Have you played a bard? Have you had, you would know that there is over 80 different materials to mine/chop down, with random drops dependent on your proficiency. Most of which don't make AWESOMESAUCE weapons. They simply do not rival crusader or dark Knights malforms - they are able to excel at something while declining at the rest of whatever benefits may be available.

You also forgot to mention these weapons do crumble after a period of time. You would know this if you played a bard long enough to see.

Harvest, and mining are also very hard to master. As is build. All three have a play in the proficiency your weapon may be able to reach. Bards also lost pugil (though gained two handed) and the instrument weapon class is worse than polearms- except where disarms come in. (Harder)

If you still think they're OP from the above info given, I'm still going to fall back on : logs or it didn't happen.

[Atticus]

I have rolled a bard, I do understand the various materials. Honestly though, I've seen how many nodes there are, that reap awn as fast as a nymph heart. Gaining Those materials aren't that difficult. Look at these bards now, they don't seem to have any problem gaining them at all. I like the change but I believe we went from 1 to 100 when perhaps we wanted a class at 75 where all the others are.

I also believe crumble can be avoided or postponed as well, morl.

[mya]

Fool Hardy - You probably faced a Vamp/Demon applicant who is fully decked. That's why you died in 4 rounds.

 

Regarding the nodes and other sources, taking in consideration that bards are forced to use instruments to sing, they can't be cursed and can be disarmed/destroyed, the average damage value is not that out of proportion.

 

Regarding collection from nodes, when I played my bard, I only once found a decent material from them.

And it wasn't even my vogue type of material. And now nodes are even more scarce from what I have seen.

 

I think this part is fine on bards.

 

Regarding weapon type. I got into a PK with a bard, while I was wielding a staff (parry/2handed/dodge). I couldn't parry very well. It looked a lot like I didn't know his weapon type. Unforgettably there is no log.

 

I'm also worried about saving vs bard songs, as I now only know 1 piece of breath gear.

But then again, I didn't want to comment because I have little to no experience.

 

 

 

[Fool_Hardy]

I think bards can be tough, but its another finesse class.

If prepared and played by the right player a bard could do very well.

Most bards will fail I believe.

Someone kill a few bards so we can see the posts.

if Trick is not winning with a bard, then all OP shouts are unproven.

[Dale]

First off Atticus, I pick at everyone's posts, especially if I think it has false information or doesn't make sense.

 

I don't think bard instruments are not even close to on par with Crusader/dk weapons.

 

I have experimented with bard instruments, not as much as others, but I have a pretty good understanding of them and knowing how they work I know that it is not an issue.  I also know that every materiel you get is different and does different things.  Most of time you will get crap, a slab however is never crap.

[Trick]

Yeah.. Bards are capable of doing WAY too much shit. 

 

They have a weapon NO ONE else knows. Their spells operate off a save that NO ONE can get. They can steal. Their weapons do INSANE damage. Their vogues do INSANE shit. 

 

This is very clearly overpowered. Morlhach, I understand you created them and you're very proud of it, but come on man. This is ridiculous, and you know it. 

[mya]

To be fair, I don't think bards "are capable of doing WAY too much shit."

 

It's just that some things they do, are a tad to strong.

But if we don't point up this stuff, Morlhach can't fix them, because he isn't aware of it or can't evaluate how much impact they have..

You guys could help a lot if you posted logs of this situations.

Many stuff has been toned down because people where helping with it.

 

Remenber, Morlhach isn't playing bards. I doubt he does anything else other than coding. You guys are the ones playing bards or against them.