Berserkers and Selectables

[mya]

"arrows to just partially pierce missile shield."

They do.

 

"bash for -1 round of lag through protective shield."

Bards can.

Monks can dispel it.

 

"just have a chance to disarm a cursed weapon/shield."

Let me see the number of classes that can disarm cursed weapons....

Monk, Warrior, Blademaster

Let me see the number of classes that  can ruin burnproff weapons...

Berzerker

 

How many of those are mages?

 

I still remember when my mage never had to worry being disarmed after getting an cursed weapon. Or ever having his burnprof weapon destroyed.

 

Meele based bias is a fact...

[Dale]

I remember when a decked prepared mage was nigh unbeatable.  Even human mages flourished.

 

 

Sorry you're not OP anymore Mya, guess you will have to rely on strategy now.  

[Trick]

Has anyone not fought Lejarak? Like.. who the hell is saying mages can't be unbelievably overpowered to all hell? Its the player. Not the class. 

[f0xx]

"arrows to just partially pierce missile shield."

They do.

 

"bash for -1 round of lag through protective shield."

Bards can.

Monks can dispel it.

 

"just have a chance to disarm a cursed weapon/shield."

Let me see the number of classes that can disarm cursed weapons....

Monk, Warrior, Blademaster

Let me see the number of classes that  can ruin burnproff weapons...

Berzerker

 

That's a lot of fact twisting there, dear Mya.

[mya]

Has anyone not fought Lejarak? Like.. who the hell is saying mages can't be unbelievably overpowered to all hell? Its the player. Not the class. 

I'm more worried with Thulgans 3 year reign... Actually not because all that blood and carnage deep down, Thulgan is a softie, tender hearted ogre.

 

Regarding Reaver invokers, it's the pheflora of Nexus powers/bonus geared towards damage amplification. Same reason a FG zerk reaver Elder can be absolutely destructive. And highly offensive tactics such as dual wield whip warriors, work so well.

 

 

I remember when a decked prepared mage was nigh unbeatable.  Even human mages flourished.

 

 

Sorry you're not OP anymore Mya, guess you will have to rely on strategy now.  

 

I don't remember those times. And the only human mages I recall are lich applicants.

[Trick]

So.. Let's work this out.. You're always saying how mage classes are weak.. I give an example of a current mage powerhouse and your counter is that its his class/cabal combination that makes him strong?

 

Uhh... yeah..

[Evangelion]

I'm more worried with Thulgans 3 year reign... Actually not because all that blood and carnage deep down, Thulgan is a softie, tender hearted ogre.

 

Regarding Reaver invokers, it's the pheflora of Nexus powers/bonus geared towards damage amplification. Same reason a FG zerk reaver Elder can be absolutely destructive. And highly offensive tactics such as dual wield whip warriors, work so well.

 

 

 

I don't remember those times. And the only human mages I recall are lich applicants.

 

Can I just say that I was really hoping "pheflora" was a word? I so seldom come across cool new words, and I was really hoping that was one.

[Trick]

That's gonna be my new character's name. 

[Dale]

pleth·o·ra

ˈpleTHərə/

noun

 

1. 
   
   
   

   1.

   
   

   
   

   
   

   a large or excessive amount of (something).

   
   

   "a plethora of committees and subcommittees"

   
   

   
   
   synonyms:
   
   excess, overabundance, superabundance, surplus, glut, superfluity,surfeit, profusion; More
   

   
   

   
   

    

   
   

    

   
   

   
   

    

   
   

   
   

   
   

   
   
   

   
   

   
   
    
   
    
   

   
   

   
   

   
   
   
   
   
2. 
   
   
   

   2.

   
   

   
   

   
   

   MEDICINE

   
   

   an excess of a bodily fluid, particularly blood.

   
   

    

   
   

    

   
   

    

   
   

    

   
   @ Mya - I guess you don't remember Poplin?

   
   

   
   
   
   
   

[f0xx]

Regarding Reaver invokers, it's the pheflora of Nexus powers/bonus geared towards damage amplification.

That is why Mya is my favourite.

As for Lejarak, I am pretty sure he would have kicked ass no matter his cabal.

As he likes to say, everything he plays turns out to be a power combo

[L-A]

Weapons and armor can be repaired in Falen Dara.

 

Icestorm still (at the moment) destroys weapons. Something I overlooked.

 

Broken armor or damaged armor/weapons decreases damage output and the 'usefulness' (read -AC) of weapons and armor.

 

All berserkers now break with shield and weapon cleave - they don't destroy. Burnproofed weapons CANNOT be broken unless

 

A fury berserker destroys with shield and weapon cleave if it's not burnproofed, if it is burnproofed, they have a chance at breaking it.

 

 

Why the nerf to invokers and berserkers?  Forcing people to choose burnproof eq or chance losing it to icestorm or cleaves assisted greatly in the items people could use (at least until enough CPs could be gained).  I understand fury zerks - being specialists - being able to deal with burnproof stuff (even temporaily), but why stop actual equipment destruction?

 

L-A

[mya]

So.. Let's work this out.. You're always saying how mage classes are weak..

 

I'm not saying all mages classes are weak. While in my opinion some of them are others aren't. Just like melees. There are stronger melee classes than others. Example, Ninjas vs Blademasters. And needed some tweeks, like Zerks needed in the past.

I don't think I ever said Invokers aren't a strong class, just like Necromancers (the strongest in my opinion).

 

What I say is that FL is biased towards meeles.

Weapon removals being one of them, that been growing for some time.

 

Then there's the multitude of casting negation effects like fury,silence/blasphemy, forget, uppercut, spell turning ... some of which completely negate casting.

But there is nothing to prevent skills. There some things to reduce attacks, but nothing that eliminates them.

We have slow which reduces number of attacks, but leaves you exposed to attrition tactics.

We have hysteria which makes you miss skills more often. -25% compared with -60% from fury and most 'disruption'.

Blind... I leave outside, because for any melee benefit a mage can get, the melee can reverse with dirt kick.

 

Then there's paralysis.

Lower base HP for mages.

But since most of you play meeles, you guys don't care.

I suggest Invokers damage burnprof weapons and you guys are all vocal against it. But when berserks got it, no one was against it.

And Invokers like berserkers are the only regular class that can access weapon destruction through spell/skills.

 

Thanks Dale, that was the word I intended to use. Never seen Poplin on the who list.

[Zhurong]

The difference between zerks and invokers here, is that zerks have to special into a certain selectable to have the perk of breaking weapons.

[Evangelion]

I'm not saying all mages classes are weak. While in my opinion some of them are others aren't. Just like melees. There are stronger melee classes than others. Example, Ninjas vs Blademasters. And needed some tweeks, like Zerks needed in the past.

I don't think I ever said Invokers aren't a strong class, just like Necromancers (the strongest in my opinion).

 

What I say is that FL is biased towards meeles.

Weapon removals being one of them, that been growing for some time.

 

Then there's the multitude of casting negation effects like fury,silence/blasphemy, forget, uppercut, spell turning ... some of which completely negate casting.

But there is nothing to prevent skills. There some things to reduce attacks, but nothing that eliminates them.

We have slow which reduces number of attacks, but leaves you exposed to attrition tactics.

We have hysteria which makes you miss skills more often. -25% compared with -60% from fury and most 'disruption'.

Blind... I leave outside, because for any melee benefit a mage can get, the melee can reverse with dirt kick.

 

Then there's paralysis.

Lower base HP for mages.

But since most of you play meeles, you guys don't care.

I suggest Invokers damage burnprof weapons and you guys are all vocal against it. But when berserks got it, no one was against it.

And Invokers like berserkers are the only regular class that can access weapon destruction through spell/skills.

 

Thanks Dale, that was the word I intended to use. Never seen Poplin on the who list.

 

Melees are on an upswing, in terms of popularity. Mages were king for a long time. But like any bubble, this WILL burst. As key players start to get fed up playing the same dirt kick and bash game, they'll switch to a more interesting, versatile class. And when they start beating up on the existing melees, those players will roll mages or rogues to compete. It's a cycle - it always is.

 

In the meantime, relish the fact that there is NOTHING that prevents mages from being competitive except skill and knowledge. And the last thing invokers need is anything to make them more powerful. (trigger warning: humble brag) I proved it with Geoffram, crackwilly proved it with Sylf, Lejarak is proving it now, and countless others have proved it throughout the years.

 

And before you bring cabal powers into it, you can't tell me that Thulgan would be half the beast he is without cabal powers. He'd be strong, but he wouldn't be an unstoppable force. Same goes for every other melee that's doing well for themselves. 

[L-A]

Mya - do you realise that the point of being able to destroy weapons limits the choices people make?  You can't go and round up your greatly powerful weapons, you need to get ones that can't be destroyed or run the risk of valuable rounds being lost while the invoker casts on you.  Not being able to destroy some weapons - well, the burnproof flag isn't (or shouldn't) be on many super powerful weapons and that is the reasons.  This is part of eq balance.

 

Add to that you can block magic weapons, reduce ice or fire damage, blow up non-burnproof and when it's time to fight an invoker the selection gets even more limited.  Until you add cps - which is why I never liked players being able to circumvent burnproof so easily.  It really screws with balance.

 

BTW - if you allow invokers to 'break' burnproof but stop them destroying anything, you de-power them.  Players will still get -60 sva and you no longer have the option to rely on attrition and hellstream to kill off the saves gear so you can kill them.  As soon as you damage it they run to Falen Dara and repair it.   You get too...I don't even know what you're going to do against a -60 sva ogre with a Mask of Dischord.  Most likely die screaming with very little in the way of options.  Then you'll come here saying it's not fair when the change you talk about removes the options you would have needed.  At least before with a couple of lucky hellstreams you could get those saves down and spell damage up.

 

 

Zerks are a bit different - mostly because I thought the changes (until I read this thread) were limited to fury zerks.  All zerks could destroy, fury zerks (and I'd wager you'll find it's under certain circumstances ie raged and 2h weapon) could 'break' the burnproof weapon (which I doubt was made fait acompli).  Those that can do this cannot haymaker through a shield or ramp up their HP with berserk (and btw, my last ogre zerk had 2k hp once I spent all my mana on ferocity).  Again, making people choose burnproof weapons to risk losing offense and defence to a cleave helped the class fight back against melees.  Putting a good scare into those who have burnproof weapons helps one small subset of a class.

 

If it's really been changed to 'break only' without any chance of destruction, zerks will be weaker for it.  Not as much as invokers as there is a still a chance to lag and finish them quickly - but if all it takes it a trip to Falen Dara and the weapon comes back that's a pretty small price to pay considering to get max value out of cleave a zerk will need to rage (no fleeing, no tick healing) and go for a 2h weapon (less attacks).  Even then, it's a two round lag skill so there is a good chance to flee.

 

L-A

[Erelei]

L-A: some changes you need to know -

You cannot permanently burnproof weapons anymore. There is a timer. You can't run to the armorer to get it repaired "just like that" either - there's bloody timer.

So it's not really a huge it to any classes.

[L-A]

L-A: some changes you need to know -

You cannot permanently burnproof weapons anymore. There is a timer. You can't run to the armorer to get it repaired "just like that" either - there's bloody timer.

So it's not really a huge it to any classes.

 

Can you still destory non-burnproof gear?

 

L-A

[Erelei]

Ice storm can (but not armor or weapons). Same with hell stream.

Fury berserkers will always try to.

[Anume]

LA: you are wrong in this. The eq will still break and be useless while broken, allowing for wearing down tactics. There is one shop in all the lands that can repair eq, it lets you in only if you are not bloody, it takes multible repairs to repair something fully (each repair costs gold) and it lags you each time, considerably.

So for the invoker: if the enemy is still bloody, they can't repair. If they are not bloody, you won't be either and have a good chance to get another 4 hellstreams in while they are lagged from a repair, finishing them.

 

The repair change is meant for people to repair things AFTER a fight is over, thus strenghtening the mid to lower power slot of people who do not have thousands of cp yet to spend on burnproofing eq.

[L-A]

Thanks very much for all the information.  Much appreciated.

 

L-A

[Mudder]

Was rake removed?

[Anume]

What is rake?

[f0xx]

What is rake?

 

Was wondering the same thing....

[Erelei]

Rake was an old berserker skill from a long, long time ago. Only in AR as far as I knew. (it still exists in other forms)

[Mudder]

Still has a help file. I'm pretty sure I used it in the past. *shrug*