New Cabal idea.

but you get so many bonus ones.

Okay, this argument hasn't progressed in forever. So, let me ask you.. Do you think you could be successful in the game without wimpy? If wimpy were removed from the game, could you successfully PK? This isn't a dig, this isn't an insult, this is a legitimate question. I'm not saying your PK skill revolves around it either.

EDIT: Or if wimpy were toned down or changed. IE: A chance to fail or a cool down on wimpy that stopped it from being used back to back to back.

Yes I recently won a challenge predicated on that exact question.  I had lost all previous attempts.  But won on the none wimpy one.

Could a melee win in pk if they didn't get 2x hits in the murder round doing 200 to 300 at times through sanctuary with over -500 ac?  That's the thing.  Wimpy is the only way you avoid massive double round openers that chunk off 20 to 25% of your hp as a caster with your little parry.

FYI I rarely use wimpy unless in certain situations.  Often times turning it on or off as the fight progresses.

5 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

Could a melee win in pk if they didn't get 2x hits in the murder round doing 200 to 300 at times through sanctuary with over -500 ac?  That's the thing.

You do not understand it, do you?

Murder is a skill that hurls a combat round on you. What difference does murder make from say, hellstream? It's not a double round. How can you play this game for so long and still not be able to understand this?

The "double murder" round isn't something that happens every time you do "murder someone".

And yeah, melee could win without such murder rounds.

I, with my melees, don't even rely on double rounds.

But you can bet I'm having a shit eating grin every time it happens.

Take away double rounds and wimpy.    Problem solved.   Cry babies.

More often than not murder is the goto command for proficient melee enemies I face.  Their strategy is murder flee murder flee murder.  Waiting till I use any spell/skill that causes lag. 

Most times the murder rounds are double.  And since a caster has minimal defence vs melee, they hit often even with significant ac. 

Then we have pets that also get this double round.  I recently took 240 in one round with all spells up and -700 ac across the board.  This was ~24% of my hp.  MINE which is always high for a caster since I tend to always be very well dressed.  On most people I see it would of been closers to 35%.

Outside of a few special unique spells, which all lag you 2 rounda btw, this damage is impossible without first landing a dispel and some kind of vulnerable being exploited. 

So when you can rip a person's hide off with a low lag murder command, I think it is perfectly fair they have an option for avoidance of that double round on the tail end of the fight.  When they are already below 50%.   

To add, casters usually have much less hp than melee, and melee can still sustain damage while blinding, disabling, or otherwise effecting their enemy.  A caster has to choose this effect in place of dps.

I think wimpy balances.  Melee get the burst potential and sustain on the front end.  While casters have effect advantage and escape potential on the backenf.

Balance doesn't mean jack, when the wimpy fires as low as 50% of your HP pool.

After that, the melee's burst damage doesn't mean shite. It goes to null.

Whereas, caster can autoflee via wimpy and have the melee lag itself by making

sweet love to casters possible charmies. Heaven forbid the melee tries for some skill too -

SPAMS and hits the charmies again - furthermore lagging itself. HA HA. HA.

Now tables have turned. Mage comes and hits a dispel. Oh ####.

And then some. Melee's wimpy doesn't do anything here, probably just kills him/her.

Lag finally ceases to exist and melee autoflees. Mage can just and follow after without lag

and blast that heavy damaging spell of his/hers/its. Yay. Burstdamage.

Anyway.

I like @Chesta6384's suggestion. Get rid of wimpy and double murder rounds.

Just.

GIT GUD.

To elaborate.  Wimpy to me has always been the same as how a caster has to kite melee mobs in rpg games. 

You blast and move, blast and move leading that melee around as he is slowed and hitting air.  

It does balance...melee just gets the advantage on the first half of hp, but has to work for the finish.

I agree with removing both too btw.

BTW @hotspring monkey you agreed with my point. Melee gets first 50% advantage, cc's are on the tail end.

I just wanted to re-confirm that adding a new cabal is a great idea, just look at how hot this thread is with all the people who are interested in talking about adding a new cabal.

Love you @Gaunticles you sexy beast.

Kyz, mate, you are really good at being manipulative and playing the victim, but I am not falling for this again. You've lost ALL credibility to lead sensible argument after the last fiasco, posting from the anonymous account. When someone can lie openly and when proved proved wrong allowed to come up with shit like "I was just trolling", then this person should simply not be allowed to post anymore. But since that is not the case, and you can still post crap with zero proof and sense in it, I will not bother with proving you wrong.

Wimpy is a bug that is being sold as a feature. It was the same with being able to wield light two handed weapons in your offhand while wielding a heavy one handed in your main aka Turnus:

Turnus is using:

           'Khyer-Dirohm', the Vorpal Sword of Atonement

      (Magical) (Glowing) (Humming) the Arctron

Either way, the IMMs are going to decide if wimpy is OK or not, a bug or a feature. Just keep in mind one thing, Zhokril decided that it was OK for his character to walk around using those two weapons.

Foxx you miss the point of reasonable discourse and debate as usal.  Making a reasoned discussion into some kind of personal crusade against other people.

One does not simply lead a reasonable discourse and debate with a troll. Sorry mate. You are biased, you manipulate and lie. And when you get called out for it, you go "oh I was just trolling."

Umm sure dude.

Then don't participate.  Trick asked me for the counter point, and I gave it.  If you can't get your panties un wadded enough to join in the debate minus personal attacks then piss off.

31 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

To elaborate.  Wimpy to me has always been the same as how a caster has to kite melee mobs in rpg games. 

You blast and move, blast and move leading that melee around as he is slowed and hitting air.

The difference is in those games you have to make the conscious effort to flee or move your character. For wimpy, the game does it for you. I see it as not having to skillfully decide when the BEST time for you to flee would be because the game will flee FOR you at the first knick of damage. It allows you a safety net that, in my personal opinion, should be reserved for moderate tier, adventurers, and journeyman.If you are a skilled PKer, I think one of the biggest things to understand and know is when to flee and when to fight. Wimpy eliminates the decision making process and nullifies the time you spend thinking about your next spell or if you should flee. Wimpy kicks in, you flee, and you are entering directions to get away before the enemy is done being lagged from their murder. 

Since it IS in the game, use it. I can't fault anyone for using a mechanic to their full advantage when it is in the game and available for use. 

I think wimpy should be 100% for moderate tier, adventurers, and journeyman. If you are standard tier or hardcore tier then your wimpy should have a lower HP% requirement, a chance to fail, or a cool down. This allows you, a skilled PKer, to make the tactical and strategic decision of placing your wimpy at the right % and the right time, instead of keeping it at 50% and fleeing around the game. Wimpy should not be a guarantee flee, just like murder rounds are not guaranteed damage. You have a chance to defend them and the melee has a chance to miss. Wimpy is 100% guaranteed to flee for you. There should be a chance you get flustered and flee into a wall and fail the flee. The fail will result in 3-4 hour cool down, or something.

Anyways.

@Chesta6384 @hotspring monkey

the interesting thing would be to see the classes that get hit the most by removing both.

Rangers and necromancers would take a serious dps hit.

While communers would be the most hurt by wimpy changes imo. 

@Gaunticles <3

typically when I use wimpy @Trick, mine is set in the 20% range, 30% for a cleric. 

To high and you miss out on damage opportunities.  

Also when I do play melee I crush wimpy using characters.  If you are fast enough you literally take control of their characters movement.

I'm not attacking you. I suggested a potential compromising solution, but instead of commenting on that suggestion you decided that the better route was to tell me how awesome you are and that you "crush" characters.. That is a problem. That is why F0xx is irritated at you, by the way.

And really, its a big problem we all kinda have. We don't actually read and understand what the other person is trying to say, lol. We just wait for them to reply so we have an excuse to say more shit, haha..

That's cool though. I'm exhausted by this particular discussion, and honestly, about ganging and rares. Back to topic.

Cabals:

I think there are a lot of potential cabals that could/can be created, but it has to be well thought out for Aabahran's RP style. Introducing a new cabal brings a TON of new aspects that can be unbalanced or mean another cabal is irrelevant. Instead of MORE cabals, maybe we should work on refining the RP for the current ones?

39 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

Umm sure dude.

Then don't participate.  Trick asked me for the counter point, and I gave it.  If you can't get your panties un wadded enough to join in the debate minus personal attacks then piss off.

Do you really want me to dig in your crap once again? Alright then.

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More often than not murder is the goto command for proficient melee enemies I face.

Of course that would be the case. Warriors have no other opener that allows them to chase effectively. Every skill they have lags them for two rounds. Even charge who is supposed to be a finisher lags the melee for two rounds and the mage for just one.

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Their strategy is murder flee murder flee murder. Waiting till I use any spell/skill that causes lag. 

Most times the murder rounds are double.

Firstly, murder is very easily counterable. Invokers have firestorm, other mages have blind, pets that dirt, or can simple engage them before they engage you. Whoever engages first always has the upper hand. An invoker can engage with hellstream, and then when the round passes he can dish out another hellstream. Isn't that a double round for him then?

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And since a caster has minimal defence vs melee, they hit often even with significant ac.

What do you mean minimal defense mate? I see characters taking mauls and wounds from melees that are decked to the teeth and have 70+ damroll. Is that what you call minimal defense?

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Then we have pets that also get this double round.  I recently took 240 in one round with all spells up and -700 ac across the board.  This was ~24% of my hp.  MINE which is always high for a caster since I tend to always be very well dressed.  On most people I see it would of been closers to 35%.

I wont even comment on this before seeing logs really. We already know how much your words weight.

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Outside of a few special unique spells, which all lag you 2 rounda btw, this damage is impossible without first landing a dispel and some kind of vulnerable being exploited.

Now this is simply crap. An invoker can hit a decked ogre for 600 damage with no sanc, which means he can hit it for 300 with sanc up. And that's not just now and then. It's a constant. Funnily enough, most melees that can dish out the type of damage you speak of have exactly the vulns you can exploit. Fire giants, ogres, ferals.

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So when you can rip a person's hide off with a low lag murder command.

Once again, murder is the only command available to melees with which they can chase. That being said, in the time my lag from murder wears off you can fire a dispel a hellstream.

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I think it is perfectly fair they have an option for avoidance of that double round on the tail end of the fight.  When they are already below 50%.

So lets say we break hellstream into a spell similar to magic missile, except every one of the four missile will do 100 hp. Your character fights my character. My character is at 150 hp, but has wimpy at 100. You cast this hellstream. What happens is the following:

1. You cast hellstream between the rounds

2. First missile lands

3. My character takes 100 hp

4. My character is left with 50 hp

5. Wimpy kicks in and forces my character to flee

6. The other 300 damage of your spell is nullified.

By the way that is exactly how magic missile interacts with wimpy.

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To add, casters usually have much less hp than melee, and melee can still sustain damage while blinding, disabling, or otherwise effecting their enemy.  A caster has to choose this effect in place of dps.

Why do you even bother explaining what a melee can do? While my melee is kicking dirt, your invoker can successfully dispel and land 2 unsanced hellstreams in the time my lag from dirt wears off. Fair?

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I think wimpy balances.  Melee get the burst potential and sustain on the front end.  While casters have effect advantage and escape potential on the backend.

I dont even understand what that is supposed to mean. Mages have burst with dispel. And tons of it. You, out of everyone, know this best. Melees have burst ONLY via murder. A mages burst can not be via mechanics. A melee's burst can be countered by engaging him, blinding him, lagging him with your zombies, and then finally, wimpy. And while the others take skill to execute, wimpy takes none.