Bard Review

[Serinkane]

After playing several successful bards to pinnacle I'd like to give an honest evaluation. I'll disclose the strengths and weaknesses:

First and foremost I have always loved the concept and had several pre-revamp. The issue with the current bards is bash and that sole skill is their hand to existence forcing one of the following; Enlarge cb skills, Avian class, boots of stomping or brace. Limiting a class to rely on this limits their potential variations all in all.

Their staple attack combo relies heavily on refraining reverberate, sitting then spamming reverb or four seasons throwing depending on the enemy. They've a nice output to some degree but lack in the ability to lock down an opponent and having non target specific skills that lag them to hell if the enemy flees.

I'd like to suggest Lullaby, which doesn't seem to work on players, and reverb to target when cast as to not be constantly lagged trying to chase with such. Other songs including echoed voices, remembrance, arduas regret all seem quite useless in the combo. Tarot cards without luck perk a complete waste of a point and eblven with luck nothing worthwhile exept over padding an already capped stat.

Instruments are quite a nice concept though maintain could use some toning for how.much effort is required to max it. I also didn't notice the perk to craft better had any effect. The amount of trees seems fine but mines were a bit lacking.

Vogues seemed only to have one valuable path and that's pwerchord. The others didn't seem to do much or relative damage. Recent changes started making vogues impossible to land and end up with a.broke weapon before ever landing one.

Cards overall seemed to do less damage than before the revamp. This makes them less useful refer to reverb spam. Dissonance lags for 1.5 but gives the caster 2 rounds which I will never understand the point making this a one shot showstopper at awful. Up the damage if we're not getting 2 rounds or lower the casters lag to 1.5 as well.

Now to the meat and potatoes, Carol of lethargy. This needs a huge nerf as it makes melee hit like school girls. In combo with arrow shield,which BTW good job nerfing that spell.forge made melee useless.

Overall some minor rounding would make them a decent fit. My suggestions would be:

Buff:

Piercing note damage

Lullaby, echoed voices, arduous regret, card damage

Bash resistance with a song or something

Mineral nodes

Dissonance lag or dmg

Tarot cards ***

Duel wield evne with an instrument is just the suck.

Uppercut blocked by shields

Nerf:

Vogues instrument damage if they suck so bad against saves

Carol of lethargy

Pwerchords masochism effect

Steal - limit to a timer or something

[Anume]

A brace wouldn't help you at all there. Resistance to bash is bash attacks like in your ac, no lag help.

There is a song that does what you are looking for already. Dissonance lag doesn't need any upgrades. I think finding minerals should get toned down again somewhat atm. The max you can get out of a new instrument will already be less than what you could do before, this has already been toned. 

[f0xx]

To be honest, there's not a single thing I agree with in your post. Including your definition of "successful"

[Serinkane]

Phone double post

[Serinkane]

Foxx your the apidamy of argueing with any post for the sake of argueing. Post something useful or gtfo

[mya]

I doubt they nerfed bard throw. Bard throw has always been iffy. Sure you can get a cloud at times but most of the time it was low damage.

 

In my view Bards are Hybrids, and should be in the same boat as DK/Paladins. They should have a bash mitigation but not protection. DK have only magic strike and Paladins have that and mounted combat. But none of them has bard like offensiveness, and only Paladins can lag through protective shield, once per 2.9 hours.

Bard lag is extremely synergistic due to the offensiveness of the class. Even at low avg damage, no other class knows instruments, it completely cripples parry/two handed, not to speak of other stuff. This is valid against every other class. Where a Paladin/DK has to have multiple weapons a Bard only needs one, his instrument.

 

Regarding bard songs. I think they should save at the same level as every-other spell. But there are two things to consider.

1) Atm there aren't saving vs breath saves.

2) Even necro sleep saves at level -3 (or did).

 

Uppercut. I imagine that the shield you are speaking of it protective shield.

Even Headbutt does not pierces protective shield (unless anger...)

There is a reason. It's to unbalancing to completely negate another class with an at will skill.

[The Forsaken]

I have some saves vs breath. You guys don't?

[Fool_Hardy]

Mintos?

[The Forsaken]

(Mentos not Mintos)

 

And no...There are save vs breath items out there.

[f0xx]

Foxx your the apidamy of argueing with any post for the sake of argueing. Post something useful or gtfo.

 

I don't think I am arguing. I am merely disagreeing.

[Serinkane]

open flaming. And I thought you had edited it out. Pity. - Anume

[muddmann]

ouch guys...

[Fool_Hardy]

I agree with a couple of things in this thread.

Lullaby does not seem to work on players, sleep spell for mobs only I guess.

Two handed with pugil trumps dual wield.

I disagree with some things as well.

There are breath saves, but to get them you have to give up a different rare.

There are a lot of mineral nodes, they are just spaced out better than trees.

On the fence on a couple of items.

Do bards need bash protection? If I am playing one yes, if I am fighting one no.

Do thrown cards do less damage than before the revamp? Seemed like they do less damage, until I started making them out of useful materials.

Suggestion: If lullaby worked on players even 50% of the time, then the most useful of bard songs would get used. When I first checked out the changes, I thought this will be a finesse class, but the most successful bards have been hack and slash(crush them with noise) types. Knock out provides a chance at making the songs useful, unfortunately I only knocked one player out and did not think of it at the time.

[Trick]

I don't know about much of the other stuff, but I do know I've been put to sleep by lullaby. 

 

Also, in my fights against bards, only ONE bard bothered using his songs and when he did, it was VERY painful. Every other bard I've fought has relied solely on out damaging me. Bard weapons are so SO strong. So strong, in fact, that it takes away from the class as the bard just out damages and chasing. 

 

I have only seen a vogue used ONE time. I've never been thrown at. I've never seen four seasons used against me.

 

ALL of my fights against bards as a warrior have been:

 

1. I take insanely, ungodly amounts of damage. I've taken dismembers to demolishes through sanctuary at 4-5 attacks a round.

 

OR

 

2. I land dirt kick right off and deal solid damage to the bard. I've done maims to mutilates to them.

 

 

In ONE incident did a bard use their songs and it completely had me disorientated and messed up. Darion lullabied Hgurkei and had me spelled up to the extreme. I do not recommend anyone let a bard sleep you.. Hah!

 

That being said, now that I know what will come of the spells when I am slept, I'm not too worried about it. I STILL think the appropriate action is to blind the bard. 

[Anume]

Serinkane, if you hadn't edited your first post, you'd be up for a forum vaction. Please, no flaming. Let us all keep things civil.

F0xx: the "definition of successful" part, is flame / flamebait as well. Not appropriate.

[Dead Voodoo Doll]

lol

this place always makes me giggle

[Anume]

A few more content comments:

Serinkane:

-bash, general melee hits: there is a song that will help you slightly there, figure out which one yourself. (As I said before a brace is useless in regards to avoid lag). Ac also helps and bards have a lot of possibilities to get better ac.

-refrain doesn't lag you more out of combat than it would in combat, you just can't sing anything else for a while if the enemy flees while you refrain; that reveberate is an area attack is intentional and a balance feature.

-lullaby should work on players, if it really doesn't we'll have to look at the success rate. I've seen rest in peace work on players before.

-broken instrument: you'll get that if you either use the wrong sort of instrument, not fitting to your vougue or if you're not high enough in guild rank to have a certain skill. Once you use the correct instrument and have that skill, an instrument will not get damaged this way.

-carol: is the exact same spell as the usual spell, just renamed. Figure out which it is. It's nothing unusual. It also has a downside using it under certain circumstances.

- echoed voiced and ardous regret are fine as they are, figure out what they do exactly.

- nodes are enough as it is, I think the success rate needs a slight toning down when mastered again

- uppercut: balance feature, intentional

-I think you need to experiment with your songs more. Rhapsody and lamented tears also have some very interesting effects.

 

Mya: even though other classes can't use instruments, every class knows them at 75%

[mya]

Mya: even though other classes can't use instruments, every class knows them at 75%

 

Now that's nice.

[H&R]

I have not played one, only fought a range of bards. The only thing that I really find overpowered is the song (magnificent solo?) that makes the opponent rage for two hours so he can't flee.