Code Changes (Sep - Dec)

[Erelei]

September to December Code Changes, 2015
 
[09/11/2015] titled: Horde range changes
Ranger Changes
 - paralyze behemoth’s horn with horde rangers is now an ‘effect’ rather than a spell. 
 - paralyze will now wear off properly.
 
[9/15/2015] titled: Majestic solo changes
Bard Changes
 - rage effect from majestic solo changed to ‘majestic’ effect, which now:
   - you don’t lose HP if your clas is a berserker when it ends, and
   - you don’t bound after anyone else while the effect is active - you just can’t flee.
 
[9/21/2015] titled: Balance Work
Bard Changes
 - brawl no longer works like pugil - it has it’s own formula and procs less frequently.
 - brawl works with staffs as well as instruments, but less so with staffs.
 - more brawl distraction commands added.
 - majestic solo toned: fantasia of illusions effect has been removed, and rage effect changed.
 - lamented tears and rhapsody of delusion are both able to be sang in combat.
 
Ranger Changes
 - beastmaster’s behemoth paralyze is now level+1, changed from level 45 from previous fix.
 
[9/28/2015] titled: Shield Bash
Warrior Changes
 - 8% chance to silence character with shield bash.
 - 8% chance to whirl shield (during auto_shield_bash) for 3 blockable attacks at reduced damage.
 
[9/30/2015] titled: Parry/Dodge changes
All Classes
 - Dodge is now dependent on DEX, changed from being dependent on STR.
 - Parry is now dependent on STR, changed from being dependent on DEX.
 
[9/30/2015] titled: AC changes
All Classes
 - AC now diminishes more the higher it is. Starting at ~1000 at 25% decrease, and smaller decreases the closer it is to     
  400. (e.g., 1000 AC roughly translates to 750 AC instead)
 
[10/8/2015] titled: Foliage, Druid Skill
Druid Changes
 - added new skill ‘foliage’ to druid arsenal, at level 50 and duration depends on sector, and respawn rate of area.
 
[10/11/2015] titled: Fly/Land
All Classes
 - all perm-fly classes can now use ‘fly’ to rise up into the air and fly.
 - all classes whom are currently flying, can ‘land’, dispelling the fly spell.
 
[11/8/2015] titled: Shield Bash changes
Warrior Changes
 - auto_shield_bash reworked: 25% chance each round to auto bash.
 - damage based on weight of shield and level of shield.
 - auto_shield_bash does not get extra affects, only bleed.
 - regular shield bash mana reduce from 15 to 5.
 - affects removed: silence, misdirection, lag.
 - affects added: chance to disarm, shield-disarm, or rake weapon if weapon is no-remove.
 
[11/23/2015] titled: General changes
Bard Changes
 - chopping down better pieces of lumber increased by 10%.
 - mining better pieces of material has been decreased by 5%.
 
Warrior Changes
 - throwing items at warriors (ninja/ranger/bard/thief throw) now have a chance to pass shield.
 
Ninja & Thief Changes
 - envenom now properly works on all types of shurikens and daggers.
 
[12/12/2015] titled: Throw/Edge craft
All Classes
 - fixed an issue where cards/daggers/shurikens could gain value avg dmg 0dX, creating non-damaging thrown weapons 
   that didn’t reflect number thrown. If value[1] is 0, it will now change to 1.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Morlhach
changed color from black to auto

[Insepiddeception]

Busy bee

[f0xx]

Btw, thanks for being so detailed.

[Erelei]

Thanks for pointing out that the text was black instead of white on black backgrounds. Fixed it and hid your post.

[Chesta6384]

why did you all decide to make parry STR based?  I can understand the Dodge.  But why not make them both Dex based?  As it now stands, all low str mage classes will parry for crap.  Faerie vokers won't parry for crap.  On a 1 defense class that doesn't defend well at all, they now defend even worse.  I've waited a while to post on this because i've noticed the change considerably.  This change greatly gimps mages while and in the end helps melees vs mages.  

 

all melees have dodge/parry so the swap there does not hurt them.  Invokers/necros/psi all have 1 defense, Parry.  The most viable classes for each of these are the high int classes which in turn have low str.  I don't even want to see the parry rate of a fae voker now.  I don't really understand where this change came from in the first place.  

Edited December 21, 2015 by Chesta6384

[Trick]

I don't play mage-type classes for its difficult for me to comment on the play style, but I will say that I believe it was the way it was for a reason. I don't fully understand why some changes are being made the way they are, but it seems like a lot of them are hasty, general changes that are designed to fix small problems. Unfortunately, the smaller things this fixes are being out-weighed by the big.

 

 

I assume this change, as well as the -AC change, was done to attempt to lower the defensiveness of specific classes(read characters). That is understandable and totally agreeable. The solution to the problem is not creating an -AC scale that will lower -AC if it hits a certain point, the solution is to tone down the equipment that is allowing those numbers to be achieved. Think about when this all became an issue and you'll see it correlate directly to the introduction of specific pieces of armor.

 

How many years has this game been around and for how many years has this NOT EVER been a problem? The problem was created with the introduction of this insanely overpowered armor. 

 

 

Parry and dodge worked the way they did for a reason. I don't understand the necessity to change that either. 

[Erelei]

These changes weren't hasty.

The accusations that they were made because of a singular character (rather than months and months of logs and discussions) is ludicrous.

If you think the change is un-needed, then provide examples of why they're not, not just that you disagree. After all - these changes were made because the players wanted them.

[Manual Labour]

I agree with dodge being a function of dex, that just makes sense.

Parrying also requires more dexterity than strength to pull off and I disagree with that change.

 

I agree with Trick, why diminish AC returns rather than just make it a harder stat to stack?

[Trick]

These changes weren't hasty.

The accusations that they were made because of a singular character (rather than months and months of logs and discussions) is ludicrous.

If you think the change is un-needed, then provide examples of why they're not, not just that you disagree. After all - these changes were made because the players wanted them.

 

 

The reason I say the changes seem hasty is because of the overall affect they will have on the balance of the class itself. This big of a change, as Chesta noted, will absolutely devastate the low strength mage races in the game. I can't believe that the Staff could have looked at this change and thought that it would not have a hugely negative impact to the gameplay of those specific combinations. 

 

In addition to these changes in parry, defense, and -AC are the newer pieces of armor and how strong THEY have been until some of them have been recently nerfed down to a more appropriate level. The balance aspect of these items is an indicator that PK balance is not being considered as heavily as it should for these new items. 

 

That could be the case or the implementor of these items didn't understand just how strong he or she was making these items at the time. Either one is completely logical, but if I had to guess I would say that the latter makes much more sense given who built the two newer areas - no disrespect intended to the builder, I love the areas.

 

 

 

Why do I believe they were created for one specific character? Because there is one specific character that this will impact greatly as the majority of the player base that I have seen since my return has been melee/bards/rogues. I am not against toning combinations, skills, or armor/weapons for the sake of balance. That is how you balance things anyway. Someone makes a combo and then we realize that its just too strong and we dissect why that combination is so strong.

 

In this particular instance it is because of the armor that this character was able to get that allowed him to achieve -AC numbers that made him capable of tanking the entire game and even the most highly offensive characters. 

 

 

 

Why do I feel these changes are not needed? Well, honestly, I don't think it should be my position to tell you why they are NOT needed, but instead your's to explain why you think they are needed. We haven't been given a reason why these changes have been implemented outside of the players wanted them. Players want all kinds of things and I don't think that's an adequate reason to implement a change of this caliber. 

 

 

 

All of that being said, I am extremely happy to see new and exciting things come into FL from areas and items to new classes and balancing. Its nice to see the Staff willing to dive into the code and building in order to create a new and exciting atmosphere for the players that have been here for so long. 

[tassinvegeta]

I remember posting a similar thread about the stats players are able to achieve now due to the new equipment. Most notably the saves. I didn't include the a/c as I wasn't sure about it yet. Couple of questions...

 

Wouldn't this have an even bigger affect on beginner to average mage players whom already have a tough time in today's meta?

 

Doesn't this also tone druids quite a bit? A class that was never really considered top tier to begin with?

[Serinkane]

Omg +1000000 for fly toggle!

[Erelei]

Reverted Dodge/Parry changes.

Being I'm not one willing to, or intent on arguing over something that was actually a problem over the past 10+ years, i.e., "How did this faerie parry EVERYTHING!? I'm an FG and he's a puny runt!". I know I don't need to search for the actual posts regarding this, since you all know it happened, so I'll let it at that.

And since three or four of you have donned on the "you gimped me" wagon, I've reverted it because I really don't want people to believe they were actually gimped because of this change. I really do listen to you guys.

That said, please keep in mind, proficiencies and other checks like hitroll, and damroll go into deciding if dodge actually procs or parry actually procs. The actual difference was, MAYBE, if a faerie was fighting a high strength Fire Giant, of -11 chance to parry post change.

[Aeva]

Interesting read here. Obviously I don't really KNOW any of the code stuff, but it seems like this might be an area looking for a change, if not the one that was originally made.

 

Is there a separate minor change/add that could bring in something of a +/- parry/to be parried in extreme cases without this total UnHiNgInG of the ages/old foundation?

 

 "How did this faerie parry EVERYTHING!? I'm an FG and he's a puny runt!". I know I don't need to search for the actual posts regarding this, since you all know it happened, so I'll let it at that.

 

 

 

 

edit- great to see staff engagement, regardless of outcome. kudos and thanks for that.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Aeva

[Naruthiron]

The logic to parry being based on strength is that when you parry a blow, you are stopping the momentum of a blow with roughly equal force. No way a faerie invoker, elf invoker, etc is matching strength with a FG warrior or Ogre berserker, or some other big bad melee. It makes zero sense. Parry is NOT classically a dexterous combat maneuver. It's not the Hollywood style redirection technique we see in movies. A sideways slash comes hard, and the force gets redirected harmlessly downwards by a quick flick of the wrist... yeah no. Doesn't work that way. A hard slash comes in, you aren't redirecting it. You're stopping it, or its smashing right into you. The argument for parry using Dex makes zero actual sense.

For the sake of shifting balance in the proper direction without feeling like a kick in the teeth, allow me to suggest an amendment to the change:

Parry is based mostly off of strength (75% of current) with a smaller (25%) being based on dexterity. 

[Aeva]

i totally see the point from both directions here. "RL" and "game effect" or whatever.

 

if this sort of change is founded in "real world" stuff, how do you reconcile that with "this game?" give mage classes dodge instead? i mean obviously any single-defense class that is normally going to be a high-dex low-str race is going to be hurt badly by this. such a major change would, i think, need some other snowball changes to balance back, regardless of the original intent. this change basically ONLY affects them, as obviously a melee or hybrid with both parry and dodge...you get where im going. was already written anyways.

 

i can say one thing for certain: eq is frigging ridiculous now. i have played for a few weeks here and there over the last several years, but not since 2007-2008ish have i spent as much time playing as i have this time around. it's absolutely crazy what some of these new EQ ids look like. not at all saying to change it, "nerf" it, whatever - just that ....it is a much different EQ landscape now, lol.

 

in a shrinking world that's trying to hang on, caster classes are already the hardest things to play to great success imho. whether for sake of "realistic whatever" or...whatever...this kind of thing basically shuts them off completely for anybody but the best of the best and old school players with an instinctual and complete knowledge of the game.

[Erelei]

This really has no tether to real world application or not. I reverted the change, explained the purpose of the change, explained how much it actually affected the class people said it gimped, and moved on.

[Aeva]

i think ya misunderstood what i meant there. more of a commentary on this conversation as elicited by the original post, rather than the change itself. if it's something that, as a staff, you believe is "off" or should otherwise be addressed, then i have full faith in you that it actually DOES.

 

i think this may be one of the downsides of greater transparency- a change that might not be HUGE or EARTH SHATTERING may seem like it when briefly described. it's not like you guys are going to explain line-by-line code in excruciating detail, nor could you expect everybody to understand it if you did.

 

i guess what im saying is this : if you believe it to be a real issue that should be changed, let's talk about it. talk is good. the more people understand, the less intimidating the game is to people that arent 10+ year vets. there are a few chars around lately (hopefully more than one person!) that are actually brand new to this game. i know one of them myself. change is always going to be resisted, but is also more readily embraced with a deeper understanding of intent and real result, rather than just "hey, this." "oh, ok...NOT this. cya."

[Erelei]

This staff is far more open to suggestions and changes than any other staff in the past. In fact, I'd wager 95% of changes in the past 10 years were done with discussion only with the staff and not discussed with the player base - and if someone disagreed, it was a 'tough shit' clause.

 

I'm not going to discuss every change I make with the player base. As much as I'd like to keep everything that transparent, there'd be absolutely no fun or interest in the game afterward. And not to sound like a jerk - but I'm not required to discuss what needs changed next with anyone, except staff, regarding back-end stuff. 

 

I'm not going to ask the player base if I can make this or that change. I'm going to discuss it with the Staff and decide from there if it needs changed, and proceed with the change, and then, with as much transparency as possible, make the change.

 

I reverted the current change because some of our staff also agreed it may not have been the best change. I didn't change it back solely because people complained. 

[Aeva]

so we're saying the same thing..?  rock on!

[tassinvegeta]

Oh nice. One thing I wanted to add about the fg vs faerie complaint. Could this have been due to the faerie also using lots of + parry items?

[Anume]

I suggested a cap to + prof in defenses a while back, maybe it would solve the issue.

Atm it is hard to see which effect comes from which change as - fortunately for us - we have an active coder who does not do just one change a year. We should all be glad and grateful for this, I certainly am.

 

Thanks Morl, and bear with us all (both staff and players) when we do seem unappreciative or overly argumentative.

 

In the end, I bet few of us are really able to see behind the complexity of the code and understand what a change really affects in all detail.

[Aeva]

<3  it's wonderful!

[tassinvegeta]

Ahh I see. Guess no one is sure, and its left up to adventurous players to find out

 

I'd also would like to add that I'm definitely appreciative. I say just look at all the criticism as coming from passionate fans that love your work. If they didn't there would only be silence lol

 

We should start a recent poll, listing our favorite changes. I gotta say, my favorite change lately has got to be the bash change

[Trick]

I'm definitely appreciative to the Staff for all they do. I don't think everyone is going to be in favor of every change or fully agree with all of them and to voice that is in no way being argumentative or rude. After all, like Morlhach said, he doesn't need my approval to do anything, lol. 

 

I was just giving my opinion, is all. 

 

No disrespect intended to anyone.