Old/New players idea

[Cephirus]

So I know there has been a lot of discussion in the past on ways to draw new members or even old players whom once played, back to the game. I think there have been some awesome changes and developments within the game that would (IMHO) peek the interest of some older players and perhaps at least encourage them to check out what is going on.

 

I noticed today there was a birthday for someone whom has not logged into the forum since 2006. That's nearly ten years. If the staff has access to the email address's of accounts that have not logged in for some time (I would think maybe start with a year and older), we should send them an email update. Give them some quick highlights on changes, new areas, the inclusion of journals and an excellent rp rewards system, I think we may at least get a few of them to log in and check things out.

[Manual Labour]

If you do manage to luckily draw some old players back the pbase should consider not being complete douchebags and maybe you will have a chance at some player retention.

 

Anyway maybe I'll try again in another year or so, then again maybe not.

[Trick]

What happened?

[Anume]

I recommend the prayer forum, both for venting and also to let us be aware of problems.

[Manual Labour]

There are no problems. It's the same old thing. Nothing illegal, no cheating, just behavior designed to drive people to quit. I just don't understand why people do things that make others want to delete when there are so few players left.

[Cephirus]

Well if we can approach issues objectively, maybe we can figure out what the sticking points are. Obviously you are not going to suggest we blunt all our spear tips, but perhaps you can give us one specific thing that occurs within the game that does not make you want to play.

 

All games frustrate players and cause them to rage quit, hence where there are hordes of videos about such.

 

Please do not call any players/characters out, simply give an example scenario or simply state something like full loots, or ignoring/sabotaging your characters RP.

 

I am interested to hear what your specific troubles have been Manual Labour, but as Anume suggested it may be more beneficial to have that discussion with the staff (although I suspect this has been something you have brought up or mentioned and you felt like they were simply blowing you off).

[Manual Labour]

Here is a "hypothetical" situation. Someone returns to the game after a long hiatus because they noticed a holiday exp + training boost. They are also curious about a new area or two. They decide to roll a monk because it was one class they never really explored back when they played regularly. Despite being the only person in the lands for 24 out of the 30 hours played this character was still able rank to level 40 and get almost all their key skills mastered. Very late one night after hours and hours of training (despite the holiday boost and the skill learn gloves) this monk still cant believe it takes nearly 2 hours to master each weapon type (with practice weapons). Suddenly a very tryhard berserker pops out of invisibility and begins a slamlock on the monk who is wearing a practice glaive. Luckily the player was not AFK and immediately enters a flee command. In between a couple of slams the monk fails 4 flees in a row and gets killed. After returning to their corpse the berserker who is still there begins to RP with them. The berserker thanks the monk for the honorable battle that had just taken place. It is in that moment the player of the monk realizes not only is this game a monumental waste of time (why on earth should it take 10 hours to master 5 weapon types DURING a learning boost no less) but that the others who play this game get off solely by seeking cheap kills and using "RP" to rub it in.

The player also realizes while writing this that the few remaining people who still play will spout the usual rhetoric like "harden up" and "be more prepared" and so the player prefers to just quietly go away and play games that are more fun and do not require obscene amounts of time to be get to the point of relevance.

tldr: I was content to make a quick post and leave but since some people are curious why someone would quit I thought I would tell a little "hypothetical" story.

[Anume]

While mastered skills are a very nice thing to have, I think it would be probably more worth your time to focus on getting better in pk first, by pking.

 

I still recommend a WM for that.

 

If you are training, you should still be aware of potential threads in the lands (detect invis up). If you notice someone is around who has a reason to kill you (e.g. evil and you are good), be super careful or relocate to some more remote area (anatomy training can be done in very out of the way places). Also, anatomies are probably more important than having all weapons at 100 for a monk.

Even if you do die though, that is not a reason to quit, your character has 61 deaths after all. eq does not crumble any more either, so unless you are heavily looted (at rank 40 even if you are naked it should not take you more than half an hour to regain your stuff) nothing is really lost by the death. So yes, it is certainly annoying, but it should not be a reason to quit or delete a well trained character.

(If you do wish to give it another try, Morl can probably dig out a still existing version of the pfile ).

 

So again, my advise, focus on getting better at pk and do one or two chars you do not grow too attached to, train what you need (defenses) and then give it a go. WM is great for this as many will agree to challenges to the stun. Neutral align even better, fewer people want you dead. Challenge your whole pk range. Everyone. This is how you get better fast. If you die, pick yourself up, look at the log, think of what you could do better. If you suffer a cheap death or two, shrug it off, it's not really relevant anyway, just annoying. If people see you are willing to pk, they will also let you prepare and get ready in your own time, you'll see.

[Manual Labour]

I was already in battle clan and on my way to do just what you suggested.

To suggest not needing mastery of weapons seems ill advised.

The death didnt make me quit. It was the "RP" that followed that reminded me about what sort of people play this game.

[Erelei]

Weapons are learned by how many times you swing such weapon, weather it be a miss or a hit. Monks are notorious for hitting once a round with a weapon

As for the hypothetical story you wrote - that hypothetically sucks and hypothetically any other character wouldn't just up and delete over it. I know if I invest enough time into a character I won't delete.

And many games nowadays require time and energy to get what and where you want in the game. Nearly every game I play has time = value + enjoyment.

[Anume]

For a monk, mastery in anatomies and battle practice > having all weapons at 100 instead of e.g. 85.

 

You can always train them on when there is nobody around to challenge / fight.

 

Also, would you have preferred a silent pk? At least they tried, even if you did not like it.

[f0xx]

Tbh, I don't know how "learning how to PK" would have helped in such a situation

That being said, monks are annoying to train and even play, due to their dependence on luck. But that's what makes them fun for some.

On the other hand, all of us have been on the giving AND receiving end of such situations. I would be thoroughly disappointed if said zerker is a Q-race wannabe though.

Either way, the situation you described is nothing big.

My biggest annoyance are players, STRONG players, who grind on the edge between OOC and IC behaviour, who abuse bugs just to stay on top of their game, who keep grudges against players across all their characters and even share them with their little OOC circles.

People don't seem to understand that when you are the "top dog", it's your duty to enrich the environment for others. It's like being an Immortal. You can do whatever do f!ck you want, to what end though?

[Manual Labour]

This is why I didnt want to get into it...

At the end of the day it's a simple choice. Gamers play games that are fun for them and spend time they deem worthwhile.

My experience returning was a combination of annoying grind and annoying player interaction.

I decided to post on this thread because I was pissed and as a returning vet it seemed like perhaps im not the only one who has flirted with a comeback but been driven away by an unpleasant experience. Even though I'm done again, for some inexplicable reason I still care about this game and thought maybe if those who still play heard my complaints they might alter their decision making in an attempt to retain and grow the pbase.

As I predicted there would be a slew of advice about what I could have done differently but frankly it was not my choices that drove me away.

As I and others have said for a long time now "this would be a great game were it not for the players"

[Trick]

What can be done? You can't tell a player not to kill another player in a Player-Killing MUD. Having to kill in FL is a part of a lot of things. You need a certain amount of kills to get this or that. You need to kill to be rewarded. If you don't kill you can't get undead, demon, vampire, Nexus, Syndicate.. hell what else requires a PK?

 

I don't know what the solution is, but other MUDs have figured it out while FL is still in the dark. I will agree that its the community that is hampering this game. From Staff to Player. We are more 50/50 when it comes to trashy and non-trashy people. 

 

Telling you to get better at PK isn't the answer at all and its getting old to see that as the catch-all answer. That being said, it is your fault that got caught training and not paying attention. FL used to be far more aggressive to the point people would form groups to train at the Scarecrows or the trapped door in Mahn-Tor because people would hunt them there for the "free kill".

 

 

I don't know what the solution is, but we need to figure it out.

[Manual Labour]

Just dont be dicks?

A giant zerk doesnt need to go invis and kill someone training pre pinn to get ahead. They also dont need to rub it in with veiled RP.

If he wanted honorable combat he coulda challenged me.

Also I really really REALLY think the whole skill % system is antiquated. Especially monks and weapons it just seems way more gruelling than is needed.

[Trick]

The % system is to add a sense of work to the character so that people don't just roll a new character when something goes wrong and essentially throwing away a character that had RP, history, etc. 

[Manual Labour]

Im not suggesting no mastery required. But the training system is not perfect or even ideal IMO.

Also when has mastering skills or spending any number of hours ever prevented anyone from quiting/deleting.

[Erelei]

If it isn't perfect or isn't something you approve of then post something that's worthy of change and suggest it.

Don't keep slamming it if you can't offer any constructive changes.

[sarduarkar]

1. Yes, some people are dicks. I remember getting raped by a decked pinn at lvl 43 when I asked if he could help me rank at the caverns. Yes, it can be super frustating because it's totally one sided. What did they gain or prove by doing it? So understand your frustration.

2. However, this is the minority, not the majority. I found many more good people to offset the bad.

3. Dont worry about dying on this mud. I dont think ive ever actually reached condead on any of my chars. The only downside is you lose CON, but you can retrain it back up once you get into a cabal. Also imms do allow for con quests if you end up loving your char and need some life extention.

4. Training a monk sucks... a lot. But its also part of the joy of having a char. Like most MMOs, you come to value the thing you put some energy and sweat into building up.

5. Awesome game that the imms seem to be constantly adding new content to. What it could benefit from is more players. Imagine faction wars with 10+ people...

[Manual Labour]

Re Morl: Me and many others have offered many ideas over the years on how to improve and or change the training of skills and spells. All that has ever changed is the amount of time it takes to train.

Re Sard: Yes it would be great if FL had 40+ players on at any given time. So why doesnt it?

[sarduarkar]

Because of various factors, namely lack of exposure, being a text-based game, and the learning curve that comes along with it. Most people I tell about the game chuckle at the idea that I play a game of pure text (no graphics) and don't even give it a second thought. I truly believe if many people who enjoy MMOs gave it a shot and tried it would find themselves having fun. When I was back in high school, that is exactly what happened. A group of us tried a place called Abandoned Realms and all of us ended up loving it. Only one or two of us actually ported over to FL though in the end. I miss having an illusionist with four hasted duplicates of ettins. :/

[Anume]

What I suggested makes perfect sense.

 

It is (too) frustrating if you put a lot of time into perfecting a character but then get raped. I've been there. My personal solution was to not try to reach perfection but simply enjoy the game, and a huge part of that was learning how to pk. First step of that: learning how to survive. A perfectly trained and eqed character who never fights (I've seen it) bc they can't pk at all won't really get you much fun either.

So back to step one, no perfection but fun, immersion. Be a part of it rather than the constant victim.

[Manual Labour]

Re Sard: if there was an actual way to track it I would wager the #1 loss of players stems from negative experiences with other players.

While I agree that MUDs are not popular because of the lack of graphics there are still many people around the world that MUD. FL used to have a pretty decent pbase once upon a time. Your points address why new players are super rare but you havent addressed player loss/retention.

[Naruthiron]

The #1 cause of players leaving any PvP game is other players. People don't like getting killed because they make it synonymous with losing, when that could not be far from the truth. If your enjoyment comes only from not being killed when you fail to have proactive defense, then rant when the person at least TRIES to make it a non-silent PK, you miss the entire point of the game.

[Manual Labour]

This will be my last post on this subject.

It's sad that we live in a world that defends mediocrity instead of encouraging greatness.

FL could have been a really awesome game. But hey, at least you TRIED.

/RANT