Lejarak

[Chesta6384]

its time to leave FL again.  I came back in hopes of a new era, but it seems some things never change.  This game is built around the imms and their friends.  Everyone on the outside is merely here for the scraps.  Rules are bent to favor the imms.  I've seen it time and time again.  It is easily seen which characters know the imms or in fact ARE imms by their swift promotions.  I've seen players go from Inductee to Trusted in a matter of a couple of days while players outside of the circle sit at V for 3/4 weeks and have to pray for the imms to get a promotion.  It will get defended on a basis of 'RP' which is a crock of shit.  I've never breached RP and got outcasted for betraying a Cabal, NOT my Ethos.  Which is what outcasting is meant for.  I ignored it all for a time but after a while it just gets old.  This post will likely be deleted because the imms do not like people making such claims.  

 

So rest easy.  You no longer have to get raped by me in PK.  

[Naruthiron]

Betraying your cabal IS breaking RP, but sure, blame the imms if it makes you feel better. As for swift promotions, all of Knight, at least, can attest to how slow promotions are for -everyone-. I have strict criteria. I don't monitor other cabals, so I can't say I have any idea what instances you might be referring to in that regard, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that some characters are promoted quicker than others for some reason (although I am actually more demanding of imm-played characters because I know I can expect more from them, the others are the same way). You have your frustrations, and it's not my place to say that your views are invalid, despite the inaccuracies of your conclusions. 

Outcasting, by the way, is NOT meant solely for breach of ethos. Any breach of RP warrants outcasting. Betraying a cabal completely, and breaking the rules along the way, fits that bill. Your character was frustrated, sure, but that's not means to break rules. 

Hope your time away helps clear your head.

[Trick]

Didn't Azantar betray Syndicate and go Nexus w/o being outcasted..?

 

I've seen MANY characters betray their cabal w/o being outcasted..

[Zoichan]

Nope. Azantar got booted out of Syndicate for other reasons. No betrayal there. I still think Messalantha was just worried I was coming for her collection record.

[Erelei]

Since you decided to bring it here rather than to the prayer forum, and blame IMMs for your issues:

All three of your new characters were in DS because your Elder (Lejarak) killed a dozen mobs with EQ, let it sit there, you came along with another character, picked up the EQ, died purposely, and waited at the pit with your new character for the EQ, then picked up more EQ Lejarak dropped around (titanium bracers, etc).

But no worry. It was impossible to catch you online. And I was going to deny your characters anyway for such a huge breach of rules (multi charring is bad).

Have a good one.

[Chesta6384]

BETRAYING something as an EVIL is no where near breach of RP.  but like I said,  imms have their own set of rules and views that are for their own benefit.

[Zoichan]

Nope...multi-ing is pretty much against the rules all the way across the board. See above. I'd ban the crap outta Morl if I caught him Multi-ing.

[Trick]

What about Narnokles? He left Nexus for Herald and swore to kill all of Nexus. No outcast there.

Having RP that is aligned with a cabal is one thing, but emotions and thought patterns change consistently as a character grows and experiences the world we've created.

Especially as an evil character that is out for themselves and their own power. Isn't demon RP based around betrayal?

Hey, Anume, isn't your character's history of being a god centered around betraying her God and assuming that mantle and power?

An evil betrays a cabal and is outcasted for breach of RP when an IMM's history is based around betrayal?

That doesn't make sense to me...

[Chesta6384]

thanks Morl.  You're the biggest (Fluffy Teddy Bear who spends all his time coding awesome new stuff) this game has seen.  that is far from what happened, but you can concoct any set of lies you wish.  please, pull the logs and post them.  there is a good 3 hour gap from the time those mobs were killed to the time I actually rolled a char.

[Chesta6384]

-----------Edited for overly hateful comments-----------

 

 

Portion of post unedited:

 

I love to be hated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Zoichan

[Erelei]

please, pull the logs and post them. there is a good 3 hour gap from the time those mobs were killed to the time I actually rolled a char.

Actually it was an hour and a half.

And the log is on the IMm only forum posted by the IMM who snooped you doing it. I don't have to prove anything to you.

[Naruthiron]

What about Narnokles? He left Nexus for Herald and swore to kill all of Nexus. No outcast there.

Having RP that is aligned with a cabal is one thing, but emotions and thought patterns change consistently as a character grows and experiences the world we've created.

Especially as an evil character that is out for themselves and their own power. Isn't demon RP based around betrayal?

Hey, Anume, isn't your character's history of being a god centered around betraying her God and assuming that mantle and power?

An evil betrays a cabal and is outcasted for breach of RP when an IMM's history is based around betrayal?

That doesn't make sense to me...

 

 

So...

That's entirely different from what he did, though he may tell you otherwise.

Giving land to warring cabals, helping them kill cabal members, get equipment, etc. because he didn't get his promotion when he wanted it is breach of RP. 

[Trick]

I see it as betrayal is betrayal no matter the extent. Lejarak didn't break his ethos, alignment, or his guild's rules. He did things that placed Nexus, as a cabal, in a negative situation. Isn't this a possibility given the very nature and RP of the cabal? 

 

He SHOULD have been booted from the cabal and hunted down and killed mercilessly by the powers of Nexus. 

 

People in power often aid their enemies in order to destroy another person in the organization. It happens in nearly every society's history at SOME point in time. How do you even give away land? Hell, Nexus declared war on Warmaster, took the Order of the Crusades, then declared peace like it was no big deal.. I mean c'mon.. 

 

The only thing I am defending is the standards that we operate and how we choose to outcast and penalize players for their actions. Breaking rules by trading EQ to their own characters? Against the rules. Betraying your cabal by any means possible? Not so much..

[Naruthiron]

Betraying your cabal by breaking game rules is punishable by Outcast. In fact, outcasting is light for punishment for doing that sort of thing. At least with Outcast, you can redeem yourself with the appropriate steps and RP. 

 

Stabbing your allies in the back for Nexus/Syndi is supported by the coup feature. Sabotaging your cabal's OOC mechanics is not acceptable. Cabals are a privilege and a commitment. Just like Religion is expected to not change over the course of a character's life, Cabals are also expected to not change. In the rare case that they do, it is expected that the proper steps are taken. Cabal quitting would have been that step. Killing cabal mates with coups would have been acceptable behavior. What happened was not.

[Trick]

What game rules did he break?

[Zoichan]

He killed multiple mid and high level creatures with Lejarak, then later created a new character and ran around grabbing the gear he left on the ground from killing them previously.

[Naruthiron]

Not only did he not defend his Cabal's standard, he let the Knights take it, even encouraging them to do so. While to a certain extent, betraying a cabal with a vote in to kick you out is acceptable, the actions taken as a whole were not. Still, rather than a slay/eat, he was given a title, Outcast, and then almost immediately put in a different cabal by the same Immortal he has been trashing in his posts. The idea was to make the punishment something that fit the crime, but was not permanent if he followed the rules outlined to him. 

 

We shouldn't even be having this discussion, honestly. We tried a fair punishment, it didn't sit well with him. No doubt it fed into this belief that the immortals are conspiring against him (we're not). I mean, can you imagine me trying to conspire against anyone? The most diabolical thing I can come up with is stuffing drier lint in the victim's shower head. I'm not built for such things.

And neither is the rest of the staff. We are just people trying our best to be fair to everyone. Unfortunately, that means disciplining players at times. They can either take it well, or... well... see above. However, the moment we start compromising for tantrums, we set precedents which can tear down almost 20 years of hard work to keep this game alive.

Personally, I wish Chesta all the best, and hope that if the time comes where he cools down and wants to come back, that he takes a deep breath and takes a less jarring approach to something that is intended to be fun.

[Anume]

Trick, sometimes I think you're argumentative for argument's sake.

 

So, to clear this up and close this topic.

 

There were two different situations here.

 

The recent one: trading of eq between your own characters, very clearly against the rules (help multi), this is usually punished by a denial of all concerned characters. We do have the log on Imm only, including time marks.

 

The one before: there was an expel vote running and he got to know this by ooc means

he then actively asked Knights to take the standard, did not defend, did not retrieve, actively aided Knights against other Nexus by defending the captured nexus standard at the Knight Castle, this goes against all cabal rules and is ooc knowledge transfer, it is also VERY borderline rp for an evil to actively help the Knight cabal. A denial would very well have been possible at this point however Morl decided to give him yet another chance and see what it got him, a ton of hatemail.

What also comes on top here, is that on his previous character, he also broke cabal rules and we tried to get the point across, apparently without any success.

 

Apart from these two points: there are some characters that constantly force us to reevaluate eq, features and other things bc they find ways to combine and abuse things in a matter they were not meant to work, quite obviously. It is unfortunate that players that are so brilliant in finding these features do not post them for us on prayer or at least ask about it, but abuse them until we put a stop to it via code, olc, etc.

Personally, I never quite understood why a characer that is one of the BEST pkers all around needs to get another huge power spike on top of his already great skill, so he can't just win but has to annihilate anyone without giving them a real fight. What fun is that. 

 

Summary: if something looks to good to be true, ask about it first. 

Trick: Imms don't make up stuff just to annoy you or anyone else. We usually don't bring all the details out in the open however, for the PLAYER'S sake.