kamikazi Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 I've had an issue with the bard issue for a while now and now that I rolled one and checked it out myself I have even a bigger issue. It just isn't right for a bard to beat up certain classes in melee. I give up again for now as the issues with the bards are still not resolved. Goodbye from Izrud and soon another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithric Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Let's be a little more in depth with your appraisal of the bard class. Having played one and fought many you should be able to offer an evaluation of the class in detail. What are the high points and weak points specifically for and against. What would be your specific opinions on what skills/songs to change and why? Give us options to view not just a complaint. Players opinions are valued but it takes time and a group consensus to observe change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted February 20, 2016 Report Share Posted February 20, 2016 Imho make bards songs respond to -aff, -mal, and -mental saves. The breath idea was cool but does not sync to bard songs in an RP way and certainly seems overkill in practice. Second, remove bard instruments as weapons. Make the instruments take up the bow/shield slot and have bards use normal weapons. This will remove the issue of bards in a certain cabal using songs, weapons, and projectiles and mitigate the awesome melee of bard weapons. Make bards use those spells strategically. Right now they are more like a blunt force instrument where finesse should be priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atticus Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Good on you mali. Hope to see you back soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarduarkar Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Having played Kyros and faced many bards myself, here's just a quick 2 cents: 1. Bards are very much a hybrid class like Dark Knights. And much like a DK, they rely somewhat on a stable melee base because their songs don't land reliably against a half decently saved opponent (unless you're an ogre). 2. Bards DO have some exploitable weaknesses that can make your fight against one more manageable. Examples: lack of blind fighting, all their songs are aoe, lack of protective shield, reliance on instrument. 3. The only time I feel bard melee is too powerful is when they are hasted. But I heard the hasted path got toned, so hopefully that fixed that problem. *** If you really hate bards, I'd recommend rolling a bard killer specifically. Either monk or blademaster or warrior (with a focus on being able to disarm through cursed weapons). A well timed disarmed instrument + blinding + lag/bashes should do wonders assuming you are well equipped enough. Also, can pop into a room with a strong mob here and there to make things harder for them (especially if you ever see them four seasons - that thing keeps singing even while they are chasing you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Kinda think that's the reason the pb numbers have dwindled recently. If there was a bard in a cabal, its opposing cabal became inactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted February 21, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 The majority of those returning are unaware of the changes we've made (which can be seen in announcements and changes forum). I suggest everyone go look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 1 hour ago, tassinvegeta said: Kinda think that's the reason the pb numbers have dwindled recently. If there was a bard in a cabal, its opposing cabal became inactive. That can be said of ANY strong character in any cabal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 But this is happening from a single class. Over and over and over. Also it's usually other classes or numbers that overcomes a strong character but the trend has mostly been constant tones to the class that has had the effect of the bard player quitting. Luckily others have recruited players back to the game only to see bards yet again run players off. How many examples of this do we need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 I haven't been back for quite a while so I guess I haven't seen that trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikazi Posted February 21, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 31 minutes ago, tassinvegeta said: But this is happening from a single class. Over and over and over. Also it's usually other classes or numbers that overcomes a strong character but the trend has mostly been constant tones to the class that has had the effect of the bard player quitting. Luckily others have recruited players back to the game only to see bards yet again run players off. How many examples of this do we need? I completely agree. Although I decided to experiment and I will deck myself out and fight the same bard. If the issue remains, I rest my case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tassinvegeta Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Great you're trying again Kamikazi! It usually helps Imms to balance things as they do take notice. Especially if you submit logs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarduarkar Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Might I ask for name of bard that has been causing said problem? Havent had issues with any I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithric Posted February 21, 2016 Report Share Posted February 21, 2016 Kamikaze keep your pk's logged and if/when you run into the same issues you can add them to your class overview synopsis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal Zoichan Posted February 22, 2016 Immortal Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I'm not seeing Watcher dwindle against my bard in Tribunal. (I don't play the bard, just saying my bard because I own him.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted February 22, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I'd also like to point out we're not against changes. We've made changes. Many per issues discussed with players. Many with whom have posted here telling you they agree that the class is OP. I make changes almost weekly with bards. If I do more changes (at the extensity of some suggestions) bards will be worse off than before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insepiddeception Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Logs are your best friend. I post to Prayer frequently annoying the imms with what I think are issues and get pretty good feedback, and there have been a ton of changes to the class in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archbishop Monk Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Ugh, coming back to see bards this strong actually makes me wish I had these skills when I was Thren. I thought I was pretty darn tough as a bard before. These bards are no comparison at all...... They make Thren look like Samwise Gamgee...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I am glad you decided to give it another go, for sure, but also keep in mind just because you are losing doesn't mean everyone else is. It might be something you are doing or not doing that is the issue and less so the power of the opposing race/class. Personally, I have yet to fight a bard that I've struggled against. Once I figured out what their particular path was about, it wasn't difficult to overcome it. I think you're blaming the class for being overpowered rather than addressing your own failures in PK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikazi Posted February 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I don't fail in PK. I just bash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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