what would you like to see?

[Trick]

50 minutes ago, Mali said:

Ok, back to topic, to address the question "if something is not working". I do not believe RP points are working. BAM.

Why do you say that?

I think the points DO work, but for only certain players and that is because of players. There are players that churn out note after note or journal entries constantly and don't really get much for them and that is probably because of the content involved. Anyone can throw together some bullshit. Players are expecting points for stuff they probably shouldn't get a single point for and when they don't, they whine. Or, they do just enough to get that necklace or that edge that they want and stop. Once again, trying to win a game that can't be won. 

I think if we look at the points as incentive for GOOD RP instead of just RP, then they are effective. Players will always be jealous of what another player has and it will be deemed unfair that they don't have it. I have personal experience with this as many people bitched about all the custom pieces of equipment I had on Ekhurift, but I worked very hard and experienced quite a few consequences along the way. For example, my torso piece was a custom piece that did a graze randomly during fights. It was a huge deal apparently, but no one noticed that I was bleeding non-stop before I got that. For MONTHS, I literally left a trail of blood when I walked around similar to being wounded. Do you know how difficult it is to PK when your enemies can just follow the trail you left to find you? I didn't once complain, but the moment I got something out of all my hard work everyone bitched and moaned about it. And, to top it off, I had to lose some of my RP points for it. 

The points work, its the players that don't. 

 

EDIT: After reading this I think it came off a little hostile and that was not my intention. 

[Erelei]

I've done some fixing up with the IMM sides of things so that it'll be easier to see if journals are out and can list journals by character. 

While I was at it, I recoded a lot of the spooler so that it could work easier for everyone. Applications, notes, etc. You can now copy notes (easier) and can even see what applications you have in your spool now, and see if they fall off the face of the earth before IMMs can. 

Should be easier to reward RP points.

[Ithric]

As for RP points here are my personal opinions:

I feel they are nice incentives for players to feel acknowledged and have goals.  As a player it always felt like a "pat on the back" when seeing it awarded for RP, plots, notes, etc.  It made me strive harder to rp and gave me incentives to do so.  I don't think any of the edges are real game changers tbh and most of the rp pts are practical/rp stuff (help rp points). 

As for notes/journals going unnoticed I can tell you they're not.  I stay on top of them unless I'm out of town, like now, and get back to them ASAP.  It's not just special people getting special rewards atm.  Across the board I've made it a point to attempt and get everyone on board with this little plot in some form or another.  If you feel your part is silly or miniscule I can tell you it's not.  What you DO determines how involved you get.  Hell, some things have happened lately that you guys did that was completely unexpected.  Some people have done things and gotten insight I didn't expect them to know.  This little story is cooking and I'm just watching.

Mali I would be curious to hear your opinions on why rp points don't work and why?  Perhaps offer some solutions or adittions/retractions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trick]

I think the biggest thing people need to keep in mind regarding RP points is value. If you present a journal, note, session, log, or whatever, you're going to see it being so fantastic and amazing and others might not agree with that. Personally, I suffer from this. I feel like I put out some pretty intense and in depth journals or notes, but the fact may be they could just be mediocre. This is a personal flaw of mine that I am trying to work on..

Overall, I think the IMMs do a pretty great job awarding points. Also, I don't think they compare entries from one player to another, but against your own stuff. If you send an amazing journal entry that is full of life, emotion, and extremely well written, chances are it will be used as a standard for future entries as the Staff then knows what you are capable of. Of course, that is all speculation as I'm not an IMM nor do I know how they "grade" the entries. 

 

[Ithric]

Essentially you are correct in that aspect Trick but there are a lot of variables we consider.  A well thought out note/journal that involves your character into rp is wonderful whether it be feelings, interactions, or just thoughts.  We like to see character development, overall, and that progresses through what happens in game.  Personally, I prefer to see your characters grow based on the things that are occurring around you IE: plots, character ineractions, character relationships.  

I generally have a cookie cutter mold when I pinn.  I have an "end game" idea on what I'd like them to become overall BUT 9 times out of 10 I end up so far left field from my original idea of "who I am" and that is because I let "life" mold me based on my characters interactions with other players.  It's tough to change something you've got all mapped out but you you need to consider as an MMO you can't have your entire plan etched in stone.  Be fluent and flexible by getting into your character by leaving your own personal feelings out.

I make it a goal to follow you guys around invis and observe.  I like to get a feel for "who you are" and "what your about" before I start nudging.  When you start sending notes and journals keep in mind what's transpiring "as a whole" and what your characters role/feelings/actions reflect.  Don't get upset when things don't go your way as its not a negative interaction.  We have a forum where we try and keep an up to date list going of how things evolve and each person's feelings/actions change.  Focus yourself into it and as chapters close new ones begin and side plots devlope.  Allegiances and Vendetta's form and change just as in real life.

 

 

 

 

 

[f0xx]

On 05/03/2016 at 4:00 AM, Mali said:

Ok, back to topic, to address the question "if something is not working". I do not believe RP points are working. BAM.

 

Not getting them, Mali?

[Mali]

My issue with RP points is the meta-gaming involved to get the points. I have less than zero interest in writing out what I just did in a journal or a note, I have even less interest in using the forum to post it up. My only interest is immersion in the game. If I have a character the assumption is that I am roleplaying, therefore I should be awarded RP points at intervals regardless of whether I used the forum or another IC mechanism to report my RP behavior up for some points.

I am against any system that requires immortal approval or review in order to function.

My character certainly would not be writing notes to immortals for pay. 

Anything that breaks my character immersion is flawed.

Writing for RP points is OOC and OOC behavior should be punished.

The person with the most RP points does not necessarily have the best or most immersive RP. They are simply the squeaky wheel that gets greased. if I see anyone with RP awards I am going to full loot/full sac because your behavior is unacceptable.

[Zoichan]

Hey. Full loot and sac them. See if all those RP points were legit, or if the break character and cuss you out. An interesting experiment.

 

But seriously, don't full loot/full sac someone just because they have an RP necklace.

[Naruthiron]

There have been several characters to never submit any "RP grab" journals, and not increase above their prayer posting of RP logs since even before the system was introduced, that have received multiple items/services from the Bazaar, simply through their own IG RP. Urist, Ilthrias, Sylf, Dilorry, Rilithin, Kyros, Laelanis, Ekhurift, Tkanzhar, Thulgan, Valerion, and Garacci, just to name a few. Your argument is thusly flawed.

Bonus note: I award more RP, personally, to characters that don't spam about what they ate for breakfast last week. I have also detracted RP from players that do. Trying to abuse the system is punished. People putting more effort into their character, and thus furthering their attachment, is not punished. We know the difference.

[Trick]

The journal system was not created to send the IMMs a play by play of what you did that day, but rather give the character/player an opportunity to reveal some aspects of their RP that might not come up during an RP session or conversation.

If your character has a story they'd like to tell or something that has lead them into thinking one war or another, then a journal is the perfect way to get that point across without saying, " I did this because of this ". Instead, it allows the player to take a far more creative approach to the game.

For example:

You hurt people because Dad hurt Mom and its what you know as "normal". Instead of saying it so bluntly, you could write up several journal entries detailing the abuse and your character witnessing it. As the story continues on, you are allowing other people into your character's story, life, and potentially their future as the IMMs can try to spin up some RP or moment that could affect your character greatly. 

 

Full looting and sacrificing another player's things because they are RP items and you think its wrong, is extremely poor RP from your character's stand point, if you want to get into that. You're being aggressive for no reason. I have a feeling you have this opinion because you don't like to do them therefore it'd be easier if it were removed to save you the "hassle" of doing it. 

 

 

[Erelei]

Oddly enough, when I have a character I use journal simply to explain my character from a third person view (or a view from within) to help immortals RP with me better. 

 

The RP points are just a bonus for letting them know how I work as a character. 

[Zhurong]

From the beginning, I thought journals were a cool concept until I realized there were players/characters that would write repeated journals full of non-sense just to gain points. If the immortals are now to a point where this has become unacceptable, then I am happy. I, myself, try to refrain from writing utter non-sense just for the rewards, but then again, I am also the player that refuses to "farm" consumables and other things.

[Erelei]

If someone wrote journals of just utter non-sense, they didn't get any, maybe even negative, rp points.

If someone wants to write a story about their character's pre-creation, that's fine, and that's generally what we see. It's most fun when I know of a character's past before I interact with them.

[Mali]

I'm thinking about your words.

I still think the best solution is for the Mud to run an AI that grabs all says, tells, emotes, pmotes, smotes, umotes, zmotes, yells.

The AI would auto-grade each contribution and reward points.

[Naruthiron]

Except it would be really difficult to give it a quality control function that takes into account that a good portion of the playerbase has english as a second language, or people that are very much trying and putting in the same (if not more) effort into developing an RP, but just are not as articulate or experienced as the long-time RPers. Fairness is the most important thing when designing a feature.

[Erelei]

1 hour ago, Mali said:

I'm thinking about your words.

I still think the best solution is for the Mud to run an AI that grabs all says, tells, emotes, pmotes, smotes, umotes, zmotes, yells.

The AI would auto-grade each contribution and reward points.

That could be done, but what would I grade it against? Immortals will always be > than AI. You don't have to oust who you are on prayer forum, or oust who you are in game. Write your journals as a 'role' to your character. Write them with the inclination that only you will be seeing these journals. IMMs have a list of new journals when they log in, and we grade them accordingly. If it's a "I killed so and so so I think I deserve RP points" journal, they won't get RP points. We're pretty thorough. 

If you have any other suggestions, apart from AI (which won't work, I assure you) please, let us know.

[Anume]

A journal can also be an outsiders pov and written by them, without your char ever being aware of it.

Examples: A Val Miran guard's report about some occurance that took place there.  An eye-wittness to some crime scene4. A soldiers thoughts on some battle. etc

[Atticus]

Equality among players. Crazy thought eh

[Naruthiron]

3 hours ago, Atticus said:

Equality among players. Crazy thought eh

What do you perceive as not being equal among players?

[Anume]

Compare prayer thread.

[Naruthiron]

Side note about equality among players:

The current mortal L of Knight flipped out on me personally over a name change. 
I have personally included him in 2 of my 3 RP plots. He was not created within the timeframe of the other.

Just an example of how little I care about personal disputes when I am looking through applications, character investment, RP attention, etc.

[Atticus]

People know enough, just love seeing people turtle waiting for the other shoe to drop.

[Trick]

What the hell are you talking about bro? lol

[Atticus]

I'll be respectful here,  it seems Iike some people are able to get by with behavior that others would be denied or slain for. I came back telling myself the cookie cutter days were over, evil centric player base would even out and player creativity would win out over hard coded mind sets. Here I am though confronted with the direct opposite of that, history is I had a bad run with something I wanted to do in game, however I noticed these problems before I ran into my speed hump, being branded for whining only now that I have a platform to voice such. Look, the game has improved tenfold, it's just constructive criticism. Don't take it personal.

[Anume]

If you see bad behavior, going ooc, cheating, etc. Please report it. Best with a log. 

 

Thank you.