Just curious about general info

[Ambroas]

Sorry if this is posted somewhere, been trying to find info on it and reading through change logs.  I'm trying to see a pro/con of the classes and their attributes.   Sadly I made the mistake of starting with a healer which was fun in RP but just didn't cut it everywhere else.  Lack of ability in combat, lack of offense when clearing areas and also to be honest I didn't even feel needed in most situations.  Even when my kids play after using the consumables guide they're now able to fortify themselves for combat as much as I'm able to buff as a healer so generally I feel useless.  I don't have any intention of quitting the game I just want to find a class that's right for me and haven't yet so I'm turning to the forums.

First with races: I read that halflings magic resist was weakened, being small isn't that one of the main things this race had going for them?  Even then how good is halfling/dwarf resistance?  Is it something noticeable to cover for lack of gear or is it something that end game doesn't matter?

With Combat:  I've found that I tend to like the classes that have more to do in combat.  A ranger is fun but if you're blinded you can either Dirt or Kick on a constant basis.  Using a storm requires there to be a storm, insects require sight, pets rescuing you requires sight.  Maybe if I'd gone tracker and been able to throw I'd have felt like combat was more involved.  Typically if I didn't have a storm going I'd dirt  which at this point if they were melee they'd do the same so pets/swarm is out.  If I'm not prepared with a storm then that's out.  If I flee and try to return so pets are tanking they notice it and flee as well.  At which point hopefully I get my pets back before we can see again and they initiate combat.  Most people use cursed weapons so disarming is rarely an option.  So I'm thinking maybe an Invoker, Shaman or Battlemage is more to my style.  Problem I see there is I'm not sure if these classes are capable of exploring areas solo.

Equipment: Honestly I have to say I need to be very little dependent on my armor.  I know that's impossible to lower below a point but it's simply true.  As a newbie perspective I feel like a small child surrounded by giants.  Not sure if you've all been playing since the start or if you've experienced the same thing.  I have explored but the main issue I've found is that usually good items are gone.  Now this would be fine if I knew they were supposed to be there in the first place.  Let's say Bob has some special leggings that are really good and he's in Discord.  I fight my way through discord not knowing where I am or where to go and I find Bob who is missing those leggings.  This happens 2-3 times where I come and he has nothing, eventually I'm just going to avoid him assuming that he just has nothing.  I can't clear Discord/Gear/Winter etc.. daily to finally see him with them and get them.  I'm not asking for hand holding but is there a way that a mob could appear to have an item but only drop it if the rare count is down?  Like Bob would appear to have the axe equipped but after I kill him he wouldn't drop it.  At least then I can take note of what people are wearing around me, and write down which mobs had which item as I explore.  The best advice I've gotten so far to exploring and finding gear is always do it the 1-5th of the month, earliest as possible after the equipment wipe happens.  

Cabals: Not complaining just curious.  How long is the norm for waiting for promotion from I to M, from M to cabal?  Being new I don't expect to be promoted as fast as people who can equip themselves easily, can pk better, and can do every one of the clan quests.  It's not going to happen and I agree with it.  Just curious about how long I should expect to wait if I'm active, do quests when I know where to go and support the clan any way I can.

Advice: Just looking for anything here, anything someone would suggest or think might help me.  Basically for a permanent class I considered Shaman but they seem to need to know how to chase (I have to learn at some point though) the hit and run tactic seems like it'd be fun and less dependent on eq.  Invokers look like they deal a lot of damage and since their damage is spells maybe they're less eq dependent as well?  Druids I know nothing about, Melees seem to be very eq/consumable dependent.  These guys pop more pills and smoke more than Hollywood.  I considered a thief, can always just try to go around stealing things to make up for not knowing how to get them but was told they're horrible in combat if they haven't set everything up.  Bards seem AWESOME, songs to buff, songs for damage, combat skills...guys really seem to be a good jack of all trade class.  Paladins don't appear to be very offensive but maybe I'm seeing them wrong?  Necromancer looks interesting as well, looks very fun if you get the jump on an enemy but with the guys I see playing it doesn't look like many people get jumped these days.

SO basically long story short, anyone mind just posting a quick pro/con on classes/races?  Or advice on exploring the lands, I keep getting told to explore but then people tell me I'm too weak to explore so I'm just like....ok well I'll go sit in the corner then.  Cabal wise I think I figured it out, don't go for a cabal that's heavily populated if you want a faster induction.  Sure you have people to chat with but promotion and induction wise it blows waiting lol.

 

[Ithric]

I'll post more in depth when I get off work but try a Warmaster warrior.  It is very non gear dependant and requires less skill than communers/casters.  It will help you get a grip on mechanics and loot.

[ajwetton]

Ive been in that same boat as you, I used to play alot of Communers early on and they're great for learning basics, but yea with the amount of drug addicts/pill poppers in game min/maxing their characters and basically being a warrior mage cleric no matter what class they actually are it kinda makes you useless especailly as a healer who doesnt get to rez people that often cause most people dont mob death anymore. Healers are one of my favorites to play still but they're completely usless in todays game barring 1 spell. That being said, try just a cleric, theyre alot more offensive, and can have a couple different playstyles and the religions can affect that. you get a fair bit of spells so you dont have to spend all your time consumable gathering for stuff like armor and sanc etc. you actually have a dmg output. Good clerics ahve abit more survivabilty than evils due to portal but evils get minister. Either way its a good way to safely explore. That being said Palis aren't SUPER offensive but they can dish out the dmg and have the attrition of a cleric. Heroism lets you run from one side of the world to the other. I have a friend who plays here and every time he comes back its a pali. and he can solo most places because of how versitle the class is. Its a good way to bridge that melee/communer gap. thers not Tons of options of incombat options but there are options. Just a couple of ideas.

 

[Ambroas]

@Ithric Doesnt that seem odd?  Not that I don't beleive you please don't think that or thatthat I'm disputing it I do believe you.  Just seems like a warrior who has nothing to depend on but equipment for offense and defense would rely more than a mage who relies on it for minor offense and defense.

 

 

[hotspring monkey]

@Ambroas Warrior is most defensive/(EDIT)VERSATILE class in the game and can easily get access to items that grant sanctuary + other stuff you need to survive. A good enough class to explore. Certain questS give you enough RP points to get Identify and even locate object so you're good to go. Fist mages. Burn them on a pyre. TITANSPEED.

[Anume]

I think nobody can really give you a 100% answer.

My suggestion is try out a few classes that seem fun to you and stick to what you like best.

Don't get discouraged if you die, you will die, and the more you die the faster you will actually improve. You got 61 lives for a reason.

I always think it a great pity if I see players that have reached a solid mediocre level but will not make any progess bc they log off continuously from tough fights. Fight the tough fights. That is where you learn the most.

Personally, I like melee and roughes best. I've played a few communers with mediocre success (didn't die, didn't kill anyone who was not outright suiciding on me), my mages were so terrible it was funny. Other people excel with mages and completely suck with melee.

[tassinvegeta]

Most of the time it's not the class itself but what you did or didn't do as the class that determines your success. I used to move around from class to class in my earlier days. Thinking I just couldn't find my niche. But all this did was slow down my progress even more. Part of it was feeling like I hit a wall and I can admit that part of it was because someone killed me. But learning not to care as much, and dealing with the negativity with maturity helped me grow in FL more than anything else.

I found magic resist races to arguably THE strongest racial ability in the game.

Shaman requires good running and chasing skills.

Battlemage requires tons of upkeep and requires constant attention to the timing of your spells during intense pk situations.

Invokers are a strong choice once the secrets of mana charge are unlocked to you. A/C is also important. I found that fast chasing skills isn't always needed with this class  

Equipment; learning can be tough. It took me years of learning this. And this was while I primarily played warriors lol. After I'd learn where a new piece of equipment was I'd get so excited and roll another warrior. I'd suggest patience and keep going on trips, and asking people where they found stuff. The lore and locate object skills help immensely too. Perhaps it can be looked at to always have a mobs equipment on them, but add a tag on it to let others know its not the real item if its not in. Would've saved me years of frustration.

Cabals; I think you said it earlier. If the cabal is full you'll have longer wait times. If it's empty you should be able to get in much more quickly. Clan quests, great rp, standing up to or defeating your enemies all help.

[sarduarkar]

Echoing what was already said: Everyone usually has a class-type that usually ends up meshing with them better (mainly because warriors vs mages vs clerics are played very differently).

After reading your post, I'd like to recommend Warmaster as well for one reason: their cabal equipment is really solid. It can eliminate your need to worry about several slots of armor and make equipping that much easier. Plus they are naturally strong at PVE and exploring, even on their own. Plus their whole basis is built around challenging and combating. A good environment to learn in general. This is all assuming you aren't leaning more towards a mage/cleric instead.

Edit: Also, in terms of combat... Every class has its pros/cons. I've seen people succeed with a plethora of different race/class options. The key is understand your characters win/lose conditions. Rangers are more than just dirt kick, insect swarm, thunder storm. There is a lot of tactics outside of just standing there and inputting your next attack. If you find a class you really enjoy, you could consider speaking with someone who is doing well with that same class and ask for guidance (or maybe even ask people who seem knowledgeable in general).

Edit 2: Shamans are hard to play IMO especially in the current meta where gear seems to benefit melee more (can have good magic defense + good hit/dam fairly easily, albeit this does require the melee to have acquired some decent gear). They are unique in how they combat, however. Can't hurt to try it if you're curious. I am willing to help in this arena if you'd like. Played a few shamans in the past.

As for cabals, IMMS can probably answer better.... but here are my opinions. Realize that IMMs are human too. So best thing you can do is try to stay on their radar: clan quests, ingame notes, activity, interacting with current members and having them speak on your behalf perhaps. I personally think they are a bit more lenient with new players, and I think that's great. I feel newer or struggling players should be granted an easier path to experience cabal life and learn faster.

[Ambroas]

@sarduarkar Warmaster does seem best, and for a day or so I think I'll dig into each class more before I decide.  From here and in PM's warriors seem to be the main suggestion for a newbie.  I've even been told the main perk of a cleric is conserving consumables between battles by someone.  Shaman I just considered to be interesting because they don't stay in battle long from my experience.  Why does the game seem to lean towards melee so much?  Consumables to have cleric spells, equipment, can heal... Seems like they do have an advantage only restricted by the carrying limit.  Maybe that's just my newbie opinion though.

[Naruthiron]

Stick them with the pointy end.

[Zhurong]

I wouldnt really say the game as a whole is one sided as far as melee vs communer/caster. The same healing equipment that melees use and be used by mages, communers/mages also get a wide variety of great ac eq with hp +. It is just easier to try a few things here and there while going out and fighting. Dont go out to get yourself killed. Log it. Review it. See your mistakes and learn from them.

[sarduarkar]

I guess to summarize....

Melee classes: A well equipped, fully prepared melee is usually straight up stronger than the other types of classes from a simple 100% hp to 0%. However, there are many other factors that come into play (see below).

Cleric classes: They have access to "cure".  They may lose in the short run, but their life can be extended with the use of running around and healing. This can potentially lead to a win in the longer run. It requires a good sense of when to flee and when to press your advantage. The fact that you don't need to rely on consumables as much also helps in this "attrition" type battle.

Mage classes: You have a wide variety here. BMG, for example, is very different from an Invoker. In general, lower defense for some high/unique offense (BMG are an expception).

Rogue classes: These are hybrid melees (also a wide variety here). They will loose in a straight up fight against a full melee. BUT, they get access to additional things that can tip battles in their favor under the right conditions. Blackjack/strangle? A charmed mob and some mal spells? Cure and some damaging spells? Personally, I think rogue classes are fun to play.

 

For a new player, most people tend to recommend full melees because it doesn't require those "situational" conditions that you have to juggle all the time. In addition, most new players have the mindset you mentioned... "what is that next command I can put in". For a warrior-type, you can sit there toe to toe and try to do this. Other classes, you are probably going to have to flee a lot and hunt for advantages where you can.

 

[sarduarkar]

Also, if you see yourself struggling as a warrior-class... it is likely because experienced players are finding those advantages against you and coming out ahead. Some of the learning process if figuring out how to patch up those holes and limit the advantages your opponents are gaining in battle. If you find a class you like and want some help, I'd be more than willing to give you pointers. Just send me a PM.

[Ambroas]

One thing I do know for sure is I don't want to go Ogre, the HP is great and regen is as well...but I'm just not capable of equipping well enough to overcome the magic vuln.  Debating a Storm/Stone/Mino or maybe a Slith.  No weaknesses and still a giant seems great for Stone/Mino!  On a note though @sarduarkar thank you so much!  That description of pros/cons of class types really helps me.  I'm the type that likes to collect data and never makes a hasty decision.  I figure I can always go with a no vuln warrior now and then move on to an Ogre later for the buffs.  So now I'm looking over these races and judging them before I make one.  I'm not trying to powergame, but like I told someone else here I just don't want to weaken myself if I have a choice.  Needing all the help I can get haha

[Ambroas]

Oh also:  why have I heard warriors are more offensive than berserkers?   And how would you all weigh a ranger vs warrior in damage?  Seems like with pets the ranger would deal more but if i been wrong repeatedly with assumptions in game.

[Ithric]

A pugil staff warrior can put out some pretty sick damage.  Combine that with the defensive ability of a staff and your pretty much tanking with a sword/shield.  Zerks are the heavy hitters of melee but at a pretty big price.  They take a lot of finesse whereas warriors are very simplistic once you figure out the weapon  selections.  Find what type of weapons to use against others is huge (see wiki).

[Ithric]

A pugil staff warrior can put out some pretty sick damage.  Combine that with the defensive ability of a staff and your pretty much tanking with a sword/shield.  Zerks are the heavy hitters of melee but at a pretty big price.  They take a lot of finesse whereas warriors are very simplistic once you figure out the weapon  selections.  Find what type of weapons to use against others is huge (see wiki).

[Pali]

Paladins aren't flashy, but they're a great learning class, I think.  You've got most of a full melee's defenses and attacks, allowing you to stick around in a fight for a while without risking being put down quickly, while Goliath + mounted combat will largely protect you from bash and trip without the need for maintaining flight.  You've got most of a communer's bag of tricks, including two solid offensive spells, sanctuary, bless, protection, cure critical/poison/disease/blindness and create food/water - having all these innately can matter a lot when still learning, especially for solo eq trips and area exploring - and this means you've got far less reliance on maintaining consumable supplies compared to a full melee.  You also have scrolls and staves (maybe wands too, don't recall), which full melees don't, and the basic scrolls and staves are easily maintained by bulk shopping in towns rather than making time consuming area runs (identify scrolls are also a great, not too expensive way to learn items).  Best of all: you have heroism, which lets you outrun everything in the game, period.  If a fight isn't going your way, just start moving and don't stop - they will eventually fall behind.

 

Basic equipment is all a paladin needs to survive.  I won't pretend they're terribly offensive, because they're not - you're an attrition fighter, and while you can dish out some sudden damage against an evil or undead, you'll have as hard a time making them stick around and die as they will have against you.  You'll also spend a lot of time in your fights running around and healing, since other classes will likely be dealing damage more quickly than you, but this teaches the wonderfully important skill of timing your engagements to occur when you want them to; you'll get better and better at catching a tick's sleep by instinct, at being able to intuit just how far away an enemy is and how long it will take one to find you, at knowing when you can pause to restore a spell or cast a cure and when you need to keep moving because they're very close - and at knowing exactly when you're ready to turn back around and meet their chase with a charge, as they've spent the last ten minutes trying to drop you and are starting to get frustrated, and they let a spell or two drop in the chase because they know they need to keep you on the ropes, and suddenly they eat a pair of obliterates before they can do anything about it.

[Naruthiron]

Warriors are considered more offensive than zerks because they get more attacks, have more they can do, and can more easily beat seasoned vets.

Zerks hit like trucks on steroids, but without the same number of attacks, and a whole lot less defense, it's not really something easily complimented. Their main skill, rage, makes it so they can't fight with attrition (flee). That means that either its going to get them killed (only one path has any noticeable semblance of defense when raging), or the opponent is going to flee and leave the zerk smashing anything and everything else it sees until it ends rage.

Outside of that, zerks have very few tactics available. When playing zerks, there's only like... 4 questions to ever ask yourself.

1) Am I sanctuaried/protected?
2) Do I have my consumables?
3) Are they sanctuaried/protected?
4) Have they used a skill?

If you're not in sanc/prot, you deserve death. 
If you don't have consumables, you are pointlessly fighting. They're going to flee at some point. You're going to flee at some point. There will be chasing. Time spent chasing is time spent running low on durations.
If they are not in sanc/pro, they deserve death.
If they have used a skill, then you can feel free to do whatever, if you're not lagged. Personally, I don't see why you'd ever want to do anything but kick dirt, or bodyslam anyone that doesn't have protective shield, until they use an ability. If you haymaker their spells/consumables, and they're not lagged, they're going to flee and have a 2 round head start on the chase. Not worth. But if they cast a spell or fail a dirt/disarm/bash/trip, you best believe it's haymaker time. You'll get at least 1 round of heavy hitting in there if you have good reaction time.

 

The biggest issue with zerks, the way I see it, is that their identity as a class is a handicap. Most of their skills don't work very well unless you're raged, and if you're raged, you're not defending against much. You don't have blind fighting, so you can't really duke it out against heavy melees. If you do get blinded, you can't sleep during the tick you're fleeing because it panics you (although, panic does give you an offense boost which increases your damage output while blind). Your best skills are attrition skills, but the aforementioned requirement is that you use Rage (remember, makes attrition harder) to get them to work with any degree of reliability. They have huge number boosts, but nothing to do with them. Diminishing returns make it so that you're not really getting as much as you should for what you give up. 2 of their skills are effectively pointless against any caballed enemy with half a brain, unless you choose a specific path, which is weaker in every other regard.

 

Warriors do not share this dilemma. They have more attacks, more defenses, more things to do, and don't depend on your enemy slipping up. Consistency is huge in FL, and warriors have it in spades. Berserkers aren't even sure what consistency looks like enough to even have the capacity to dream about having it. 

 

Summary:

Zerks are glass handcannons. Broken easily, deceptively big explosion that looks awesome but causes more misses than hits. Warriors have more, do more, and survive more. All zerks have going for them is their unique bag of tricks that don't really amount to much when all is said and done.

[Anume]

I don't know, I think it depends very much how skilled the serk player is.

While a fight vs any warrior will be uphill for serks, I've seen a few who kicked any warriors butt.

I also think that vs some mage / communer types, a serk has a lot of an easier time than the warrior, bc there is simply not much the warrior can do in such a fight.

[Ambroas]

Thanks for all the info guys really, any advice you can think of that I need to know please say it even if I haven't asked.  For now I really do think warrior is the way to go and I've decided on other classes I want to try so I'm going to be studying those as I go.  Blademaster is the other melee I want to try later mainly.  Monks seem too dependent on luck, zerks seem too player skill demanding for a newbie.  Cleric wise I will try Paladin first, then oddly I want to try a druid.  Mage wise battlemage, then invoker or necro if I find more info on corpses.  Rogue wise bards are the only I'm interested in for various reasons.  Now I won't be doing these at Iince but knowing my future interests I know what else to look for as I explore.

I was recommended Ogre but really don't want the vuln unless it's easier to overcome than it seems to be from my experiences with Dep.  Debating stone or mino now, neutral, no vuln, high up and str... plus I'd get boulder throw.  Just worried the lower dex will get me beat up more in fights.

[Trick]

I'm of the opinion that any skilled player can do well with any class. We have seen strong berserkers in the past, but a lot of berserker strength comes in landing that haymaker/bodyslam combo or keeping their target in the fight when they rage. Changes have consistently nerfed berserkers because of the play style and key strategy of berserkers. 

MY opinion:

Cleaves(Weapon/Shield) - Basically done away with. You can repair broken weapons for a few gold and you can burnrpoof your weapons with cabal points. There goes 2 of the 5 skills berserkers get.

Haymaker - A very strong skill in itself, but has been toned down in its effectiveness by making other classes stronger. Unless you're anger, you're going to have a much harder time getting this land against mages, communers, or shield warriors. I'm not gonna say this skill is 100% out of the picture, but its easily countered.

Headbutt - Again, unless you're anger path, you're going to struggle to get this through agains the classes you need it to. IE: protective shield.

Bodyslam - With the lag changes, the days of haymaker/bodyslam strat are long gone. Bodyslam is basically your go to in order to out damage your opponent. If they are keeping up with your damage, now all you are doing is attempting to control the flow of combat. But, the change to lag made the bodyslam(which has higher lag than bash) basically the same AS bash. 

Roar - Worthless.

Anger Path - This path, over all, provides the best bonuses to the skills you will use, but you suffer drastically in the rage department. You'll be lucky to get a 1 hour rage timer. Good luck making work of that.

Fury Path - Assault doesn't do much at all. Powergrip is an outdated skill that means nothing anymore due to the massive influx of cursed weapons. Two handed expertise is okay? Basically, your cleaves are a little better. You will often get a 0-1 hour timer on your rage. Again, good luck making much happen in that time.

Devastation Path - The only path worth taking. Bloodhaze is an extra defense that will allow you to roar away damage, which is huge. Ferocity lets you use berserk over and over at the expense of your mana for more HP. HUGELY beneficial. This path will make you unable to flee from combat, but your rage is VERY strong. Roar actually does something with this path and can fear your opponent. 

In summary:

Berserkers will do well in skilled hands, as all classes will, but won't ever "shine". Berserkers have been changed a few times in the past, but their skill set is just outdated when compared to others. They have less things they can do and constant changes that were designed to affect other combos have hampered them a lot. 

Brainstorm:

Dunno. Berserkers need to lag and there are FAR too many avenues now that take that away. Maybe something can be done with roar to make it fill that lag gap that berserkers need to win? I'm not sure. Will it be the same as pre-lag change zerks? Nahh. But it might be something.

 

I'm a huge fan of berserkers and you can bet your sweet ass that if changes came out to make them more competitive, I'd roll one that day.

 

 

 

[Ithric]

Stone has a vuln.  Minotuar is giant size, high Str, and with its horns you can charge with a staff on whereas other races can't.

[H&R]

I think you might enjoy a battlemage. A lot more combat options and a great class to solo tough areas with. Also has locate object so you can check if the mob has your item.

[mya]

@Ambroas Don't forget Hybrids. Paladins, Druids and Dark-Knights.

If you wish to experience a warrior and a mage at the same time, you should try a DK.

DK's are the ideal class for someone learning the game. Sure they don't have sanctuary, but wands makes sanctuary easy, through the tainted ankh consumable. Their skill set is mostly a warrior one. They only lack staff, blind fighting,warcry, berserk, warrior lore, fourth attack, fired weapons, riposte, and dual parry. And they get spells to make up for it.

They are literally the class with the most options available, and unlike battlemages they don't have nightmarish unkeep to keep track.

They can be played like a warrior by using meele focused tactics. Like an invoker by spaming aff spells. Like a shaman with strong maledictive tactics. And even somewhat like an attrition communer with poison+dirt+cure light.

Their only lack is not having identify, but you can extort id scrolls cheaper than most classes, and can spend RP points to get purchase it.

They are also one of the classes who gets additional power as their skill improves due to malforms. Not that you even need a malform, a simple cursed polearm is enough to be a successful DK, although geting 2-3 Pk's with your malform will give about the same result.