[50 Yochl (Drow ) Bmg] [TEMPORUM Temporum(T)] <PK> [HARDCORE] (Hourglass [T]) (Dominion [M]) [Female] (WANTED) Llothoria Xhorkai the Scourge of the Battlefield

[egreir]

My characters will always be aggressive.   I choose to RP, but PK is why I play.  

[Brofessor]

I understand, I was just making an observation that you wanted to make a yochlol that wasnt just kill kill, but alot of what I saw was physical aggression. Not taking a shot at you, just saying.

[egreir]

Never said I wanted to make a yochlol that wasn't kill kill.  I said I wanted to RP a yochlol that wasn't all short and silent.  Some people tried to give me flak about some of my emotes or some of the things I said, or how I said them.  None of that has anything to do with how much or how little I PK'd.

 

In fact, once I got cabal'd.....I can only think of ONE pk that I initiated that was on someone at random, it was purely out of boredom and was a reason I decided to give up the character.  Llothoria was indeed aggressive towards her enemies, but she was probably one of the least PK intensive characters I've had.  I could have ran around killing a lot more people in my PK range if I wanted to, but I chose not to because they did not comply with what Llothoria's goals were. I used to run around PKing anyone and everyone on my characters because it was fun...I think most of us have reached a point in which that has become easy or boring. Now we either fight the people who have the gear we want, or we fight those who give us challenges. A small amount still take the easy kills for gear or "fame" and then run from the hard fights.  Very little anymore does someone just run around killing anyone and everyone and full looting as they go, like it used to be. Like what made a lot of us "hardened" vets. Like with most things in this liberal world, the game has grown soft..maybe that's a good thing, maybe its not...

 

I forgot where I was going with that....but yeah. Sorry you misunderstood the character.

[Kyzarius]

I run around looting and killing randomly, I mean come on YOL60 

 

Honestly though, why do folks frown on aggressive evils?  When someone is a chaotic evil, they tend to have a mean streak. Killing others to forward their own goals is not only a valid option for them it is a fun one.  You can be manipulative, and crafty, and a murderous scourge if you so desire.  It comes with the territory. 

 

 

[Trick]

I've personally been of the opinion that FL hasn't had a truly EVIL character for quite a while. There are a few characters that really encompass what it is to be evil and cruelty is often an aspect of that, but in my opinion, it is a cheap avenue to take in order to achieve the status of "evil". 

Cariousus, for example, is often heralded as being one of the most evil characters in the history of FL. He would PK anyone he saw fit, but he was also scary to even RP with because of that. You didn't know when he would just kill you outright. He would often torture people and stuff, but that is hard to do when you have people unwilling to be on that side of things. Evil is VERY difficult to pull off and even harder to pull off when other players refuse to show emotions. IE: That sturdy badass paladin might not be scared of the big bad Yochlol ALL the time, but there should be moments of shock and fear. And vice versa. 

I see the above happening even when people are RPing with Gods. If Anume comes down or transfers your Knight Leader, you SHOULD be afraid. It doesn't make you weak or weak in your faith to be scared of a being so superior to you, it makes you mortal and, in my opinion, makes you a better person to RP with. 

 

[egreir]

22 minutes ago, Trick said:

I've personally been of the opinion that FL hasn't had a truly EVIL character for quite a while. There are a few characters that really encompass what it is to be evil and cruelty is often an aspect of that, but in my opinion, it is a cheap avenue to take in order to achieve the status of "evil". 

Cariousus, for example, is often heralded as being one of the most evil characters in the history of FL. He would PK anyone he saw fit, but he was also scary to even RP with because of that. You didn't know when he would just kill you outright. He would often torture people and stuff, but that is hard to do when you have people unwilling to be on that side of things. Evil is VERY difficult to pull off and even harder to pull off when other players refuse to show emotions. IE: That sturdy badass paladin might not be scared of the big bad Yochlol ALL the time, but there should be moments of shock and fear. And vice versa. 

I see the above happening even when people are RPing with Gods. If Anume comes down or transfers your Knight Leader, you SHOULD be afraid. It doesn't make you weak or weak in your faith to be scared of a being so superior to you, it makes you mortal and, in my opinion, makes you a better person to RP with. 

 

+1

[Kyzarius]

You tend to only get hatred and disgust as emotional responses RP wise. 

 

Then you kill someone, rip out their soul, rp some devilish ritual, and they are mad about you taking their gyvels. 

[Lloth]

More of you roleplay indifference or annoyance when getting a visit from a certain demon goddess, who could and (probably is going to be starting to) rip out your entrails and feed them to you while you're kept alive by demon magic, introduce you to the real you locked deep inside that fragile little shell you call a body and make you intimately aware of, and familiar with, everything your characters tell themselves that they aren't. Then once she gets bored of that, maybe she'll relinquish your souls, maybe she'll keep them locked in eternal torment, or use them to create a demon with, robbing them of what little remains of their freedom.

Who's to say?

Point is, there are far fewer people that roleplay fear in their characters, or recognition of the more sinister atrocities in an evil character, than there are demons in Watcher. Since my reveal, a grand total of 4 characters have done anything to show even the smallest bit of fear in the face of a power they cannot even hope to contend with, no matter what is said or done. It is almost unilaterally "Whatchu gon' do, spidey?" type RPs. I won't call people out by name, but you know who you are. 

Nobody wants to roleplay disempowerment. It's not cool, fun, or exciting for the person being crushed like a bug, because it's seen as losing. And until people can embrace it, none of this is going to change.

 

[Kyzarius]

Maybe that's why Volgy seems so excited when my characters suffocate and writhe when in the demon's eye. 

[Trick]

51 minutes ago, Lloth said:

More of you roleplay indifference or annoyance when getting a visit from a certain demon goddess, who could and (probably is going to be starting to) rip out your entrails and feed them to you while you're kept alive by demon magic, introduce you to the real you locked deep inside that fragile little shell you call a body and make you intimately aware of, and familiar with, everything your characters tell themselves that they aren't. Then once she gets bored of that, maybe she'll relinquish your souls, maybe she'll keep them locked in eternal torment, or use them to create a demon with, robbing them of what little remains of their freedom.

Who's to say?

Point is, there are far fewer people that roleplay fear in their characters, or recognition of the more sinister atrocities in an evil character, than there are demons in Watcher. Since my reveal, a grand total of 4 characters have done anything to show even the smallest bit of fear in the face of a power they cannot even hope to contend with, no matter what is said or done. It is almost unilaterally "Whatchu gon' do, spidey?" type RPs. I won't call people out by name, but you know who you are. 

Nobody wants to roleplay disempowerment. It's not cool, fun, or exciting for the person being crushed like a bug, because it's seen as losing. And until people can embrace it, none of this is going to change.

 

On the opposite side of the coin, there are more ways to instill fear in mortals than just threatening them with death or freezing them with an IMM command. Summoning them to your spidey world and torturing them will do more than threatening to just outright kill them. Telling people they need to either kill person A or die themselves is, in my personal opinion, a cheap way to cause "chaos". Players aren't so willing to abandon their character's goals in order to satisfy the boredom of an IMM. 

To counter my own statement, being threatened and killed, even by a god, is almost "expected" in Aabahran that its difficult for the more hardened members of the guilds to become affected by this.

I think it requires a healthy balance by both the evil entity and the recipient when that level of RP is happening. 

My previous post, and this one, both give testament to how truly difficult it can be to play an EVIL character. 

EDIT: None of this is meant as a slight or insult to Lloth as I have enjoyed my interactions with the character. 

[f0xx]

Anume and Garacci taught me a great deal of how to RP fear.

*sob*

[Zoichan]

But there is a fine line. Sorry for continuing the derailing of your thread, but I want to put my opinion in as well.

Garacci was a recent example of a good evil character. He did RP his dominance well. However, and I am using myself as an example, it's VERY hard to go along with that RP if it's slated against one of your own characters. But you have to step back and truly assess how your character would react.

Example given: (I really wish I still had the log)

A meeting was set up between Zoichan and Garacci. They had been at each other's throats for quite some time now, he being on Anume's side, and Zoichan betrying Anume for Ordaran. At THIS point, Zoichan was up 1-0 in the pk department, though Garacci did nail me in the future.

So we meet south of the Syndicate cabal. We talk for a while. Things go downhill fast due to the alpha-ness of both Garacci and Zoichan. When things get heated, he RP's a swift tackle, pinning Zoichan on the ground. This is what I would consider borderline RP. Mainly because you are more or less forcing another free willed character INTO your RP of dominance. Was it outrageous to think that the Rat King could get the drop on Zoichan during a meeting? Not really. Did it make me want to slap my computer screen? Absolutely. At this point, you have to TRULY think how your character would react to that. And it will open a large window into how deep your RP and connection with the character is. In reality of it all, I could have simply walked off. Nothing was holding me down, other than his emote of jumping on me. I could have RP'd that I did a preying mantis like counter, flipping him onto the ground. However, both of those things were wrapped up in my pride as a player, not the RP event unfolding.

In the end, I let him talk for just a moment. Then did a yell along the lines of "FRANK! GET OVER HERE NOW!" (Frank was my blood guard, which I had not brought with me due to Garacci being an outlaw.) I did my little summon blood guard spell, and Frank pops in. I turn autoassist off, and let Frank autoattack Garacci. Then an emote of Zoichan showing his disgust, and walked off letting Frank guard my retreat.

Point being, you don't HAVE to go along with an evil torturer's RP, but you damned sure better have a solid RP way of escaping. Don't let your player pride get in the way of the story, because that's all this game is. One huge, ongoing story. (That's actually how I sell it to my wife, hoping she doesn't think I'm a nerd. I tell her I play because of my love for reading books, and this is just a long, long book that I'm a part of. I don't tell her that another large part of it is PK'ing @Naruthiron.)

[egreir]

I think you guys are doing it wrong. I just sit here with some dice from an old yahtzee game of mine and anytime I need to do something I just call even or odds

[Trick]

@Zoichan

From my experiences, the best course of action for Garacci to have taken would be to leave the emote open. By that I mean don't put what happened in the tackle, but make it apparent that he moved in for it. IE:

Quote

pmote lunges at Zoichan, attempting to tackle and pin Zoichan to the ground!

Players see = Garacci lunges at Zoichan, attempting to tackle and pin Zoichan to the ground!

Zoichan sees = Garacci lunges at you, attempting to tackle and pin you to the ground!

What that then allows YOU to do, is respond accordingly. Do you sprawl and counter it? Do you lock up with him and stalemate? Do you let it happen and get pinned? All of this can be achieved by emotes, such as:

Quote

 

pmote is totally surprised by the sudden assault and is taken down by Garacci!

Players see = Zoichan is totally surprised by the sudden assault and is taken down by Garacci!

Garacci sees = Zoichan is totally surprised by the sudden assault and is taken down by you!

 

Or, you can use the same method to cancel out the assault by staying on your feet or counter it and pin HIM to the ground. 

Its always important to leave emotes open in that regard as it allows both players to respond effectively and add more to the encounter. Like you said, telling me what you did and what is happening is boring and stale. Allowing me the opportunity to respond to it? That's huge. And if Zoichan, as a player, swallowed his pride and let himself get caught by surprise, then that shows even more RP from Zoichan than Garacci forcing the interaction on him.

[Ithric]

13 hours ago, egreir said:

I think you guys are doing it wrong. I just sit here with some dice from an old yahtzee game of mine and anytime I need to do something I just call even or odds

I generally do the same thing when I'm imm rping and you guys are trying to accomplish things.  Never considered it for my mortal.  I like to resort ba k to D&D dungoen mastering.  Roll the dice - 1-3 win 5-6 fail. Lower or higher depends how bad you win/fail.

[Trick]

15 hours ago, Ithric said:

I generally do the same thing when I'm imm rping and you guys are trying to accomplish things.  Never considered it for my mortal.  I like to resort ba k to D&D dungoen mastering.  Roll the dice - 1-3 win 5-6 fail. Lower or higher depends how bad you win/fail.

Accomplish what kinds of things?

" Hey man, I know you've really been trying to get undead on your character and you wrote a really, really incredible application. Probably the best I've seen yet. You've also met every requirement and then some, but unfortunately we have to deny your application. The die came up 6. I'm sorry man, but my hands are really tied on this.. " LOL!(Joke)

[Ithric]

More along the lines of whether you die while burning the forest (1), the fire doesn't work (4), The fire works and a magical unicorn shits out a mountain of gold (6).

[Lloth]

What if I roll a seven?

[hotspring monkey]

35 minutes ago, Lloth said:

What if I roll a seven?

^^ that'd be haxxx, as Ithric only has d6.

[Ithric]

I've got my old D&D dice somewhere.

[Ambroas]

1 hour ago, hotspring monkey said:

^^ that'd be haxxx, as Ithric only has d6.

Leothyre has done it.

[Celerity]

Like what was touched on earlier, you have to remember that players are essentially demigods themselves in terms of power. Combine that with knowing that the gods played by staff members are not a omnipotent monotheistic god, but just a revolving door of stronger demigods (often changing multiple times in one mortal character's lifetime), and you have the reason why most players don't RP fear or weakness much in their presence. 

Then, when you add in that death is temporary, characters face and commit mass murder daily, and you are protected by your own set of demigods, there isn't much shock value in a god's presence. 

From a design point of view, having the staff present in the game as gods isn't the best option. Even staff-level players can't pull the RP off well and it leads to bad positioning between player and staff due to the undertones of superiority. It would be better if staff were to use gods as NPC props when needed, but otherwise separate themselves from using them as permanent avatars tied to a specific staff member.

[Lloth]

I don't agree with that assessment. It takes a few of them just to clear out the world's big baddies. In the blink of an eye, the Gods and Goddesses of the realm can lay waste to entire areas. Death is sometimes not permanent, sure, but it's not like characters know how many times they'll die. The OOC knowledge that these Gods and Goddesses won't kill you on a whim is just that - OOC. Bad RP and should never be levied as a defense for treating an encounter with extremely powerful entities as a minor annoyance. There are game-isms, but that's how games with NPCs work. Good RP means identifying that and acting as your character would if this wasn't a game you could just log out of or ignore. That's what makes characters real. 

I see your point on staff positioning, but at the same time, I don't think that's the real heart of the issue. The heart of the issue is when one side or both take a personal investment in an interaction that turns sour. It's hard to separate from a character you've invested in, and easy to take it as a personal slight if you get frustrated. Being told "no" is easy to attribute to power-crazed staff, and being eager is easy to attribute to demanding players. It's out jobs, both us as immortals as well as you as players, to try and look past the personal feelings and understand the other. It's the same in player-to-player interaction. 

[Celerity]

Is it OOC though to think that the gods will or can not kill you on a whim? There must be some reason that they use mortals to do things, and that very empowerment of mortal characters is pretty strong, direct evidence that there is something protecting Anamus from just getting obliterated by Anume for instance.  Mortals must know this because they continue to exist.

As for displays of power, is it more than witnessing firestorms, resurrections or animations, psychic powers, Gear, and every other display of overwhelming power? My characters don't break down when watching the area burn or when a hellstream smacks them...the godly aura isn't much more shocking than normal events in an FL character's life...in fact those auras are extremely common, especially for communers.

But I am getting off point here. I'm not intending to argue if this interpretation is correct or even agreeable. My point is that people can and do come to these conclusions and will continue to do so unless explicitly forbidden.

If you truly think it is OOC or otherwise 'bad RP', you need to codify it, because by staff admission, just about every single character is guilty of this bad RP and it is thus a major, systemic problem.

You can try to enforce a particular interpretation, but as we can see from the example of this thread, everybody has their own ideas. We all get the same output from the game world, and we know the rules, but from there it is mostly up to the individual. This is a good thing. Calling it out as bad RP is not much different from calling out this yochol for bad RP.

[egreir]

I wish IMMs were more punishing, but I understand that would drive most players away.  I want to see people getting slayed and their entire corpse eaten if they offend a God. I want to see IMMs interfering in mortal PKs. 

 

But that's just the 2 cents from a guy who is still freaking behind on his quarterlies