Ebacha gone for good

[Chesta6384]

I know your pain kamikaze.  Bit I will tell you that an ogre warrior will almost always beat a fg if played properly and well.  This game, contrary to popular belief, is based on pk. Nobody wants to rp with butter.  They want a solid root.   There is no fixing power combos,  they will always be there and played.   Know who your enemies will be when you roll and don't pick something at a disadvantage because this is where it leads.   Clerics can hold their own against anyone.   Invokers can too cept against dwarves.  Shamans will lol at the slow dying avatar.

[sarcon]

I was away for 4+ years, maybe more, so I missed a lot of stuff. When I came back, I was excited and loved the fact that you can rank SOOOOOO easily, and train super fast. This makes me wanna roll multiple characters and really try new things. However, I do have to admit, I've never seen this type of gameplay before. Like, warriors are completely eating me for breakfast. The amount of damage that is being done through sanc is crazy. I use to love playing blademasters because of how versatile they were, however they been toned down big time. Can't even fight a warrior anymore, no point, get your ass smacked down. It just seems like, you can't really have a good battle anymore like it use to be. When I use to play before, I loved it because it was all about who ever would make the first mistake lost essentially. Now, it's like some people are so stacked with equipment, that they will literally 2 round you. I feel your pain Kamikazi, I really do man. I was so discouraged that I decided to try and step my RP game up and got a qclass, only to get my ass handed to me worse then my invoker.. I was like "Why didn't I just keep my invoker instead of this lich that is getting eaten". Before when I use to play here, I had zero problems pking, I found it was a little more balanced, however, now things have definitely changed somehow. I'm all about rolling opposite combos to try and be a pain in someones heel.. so ya, let me know what I should roll to take out one of these crusaders and I'll do it right now!! 

[Zavero]

I haven't played in years but when I did it was always a shifting struggle amoungst the cabals or class/race combos. Some cabal would get too powerful or a character too powerful. Someone would roll a character specifically to combat that player or the opposing cabal would get stacked up. Power would shift. Back then role play wasn't as crisp or was an after thought to pk.

It seems to me the real problem is not that a certain class is too powerful but rather there just aren't enough players to spread out the class selection. Your character may not do well but there is someone else who would because of race/class they are playing. In turn Rares were distributed out to more players therefore no one is "too" powerful.

Of course I played the mud that this mud was born from and played here in the very early days. Things are different now so what you are saying most likely has some truth. 

However, I'm sure the immortals are watching and tweaking as they can. Maybe you haven't found that niche class/race combo for you. Too bad though, in the old days we would get 3 or 4 folks together and group pk folks who were too strong... haha.

[egreir]

8 hours ago, Ashuga said:

Kami, I posted that 2 hour fight log. You'll see you fled after one round lag twice as well. You'll also see that you outdamaged me most of the time when you were wielding two weapons.

Were you enlarged for your bashes?

Sidenote: took me over one month (maybe like 6-8 weeks) to get inducted, took me a long while to get T also. Not complaining though.

Saves: yes, I have very good mental saves, look at my eq.

Other sidenote: I've logged in vs 4 Nexians before, how is that not playing the underdog? 

Because you arent fighting them all. This new FL makes all the fights fair. 4v1 in 1.0 and 2.0 meant you were in for ass kicking.  Now its all can i fight him now or has it beem x hours since you attacked him? I dont wanna be called a ganger please and thank you

[kamikazi]

7 hours ago, Chesta6384 said:

I know your pain kamikaze.  Bit I will tell you that an ogre warrior will almost always beat a fg if played properly and well. 

You joking, dude? I remember H&R's Nortak fighting 4 people at once, two of them being ogres, and killing three of them. I have seen fire giants with a nexus weapon hit ogres for demolish trough sanc...a fg almost always beats the ogre...especially a reaver fg with call void. Nowadays, the ogre bash locks the fg and the fg keeps on missing its racial proficient bashes. Something is seriously wrong in this picture if you ask me. You can see for yourself from the log Ashuga provided...he never even once missed a bash and I missed 3 or 4. I dont know...he must have -500 ac or something, but then again...I had almost -300. No effect at all for me. Every hit, every skill, everything he used lands and most of my skills failed. 

[Celerity]

Ogres have always been the most powerful race for every class they can be. This hasn't changed, ever, despite overwhelming, repeated evidence of this. This isn't to say that ogres haven't changed over time, but they haven't ever been effectively balanced. Not even close.

That said, a fire giant is also a very good melee, but not on par with an ogre. The ogre has a similar damage bonus to the fire giant (except with ALL weapons, not just fire), along with the all-important hp regen. Your combat skills fail more than his because of his much better melee stats (avatar aggravates this). On fair footing, the fire giant will lose, and other races will lose even more.

As to why your call void isn't working: Saves trump vulns/resists. At a certain level of saves, it doesn't matter if you are a dwarf or an ogre, things will land about as frequently. This is why the ogre vuln doesn't seem so bad in practice and the demihuman resist doesn't seem so good in practice.

Finally, I wonder about three things:

1. Why on earth are ogres allowed to be avatars?

2. Why would said ogre avatar reach any significant cabal rank?

3. What sort of elite player would play such a combo, even if it were allowed?

[kamikazi]

1 hour ago, Celerity said:

Ogres have always been the most powerful race for every class they can be. This hasn't changed, ever, despite overwhelming, repeated evidence of this. This isn't to say that ogres haven't changed over time, but they haven't ever been effectively balanced. Not even close.

That said, a fire giant is also a very good melee, but not on par with an ogre. The ogre has a similar damage bonus to the fire giant (except with ALL weapons, not just fire), along with the all-important hp regen. Your combat skills fail more than his because of his much better melee stats (avatar aggravates this). On fair footing, the fire giant will lose, and other races will lose even more.

As to why your call void isn't working: Saves trump vulns/resists. At a certain level of saves, it doesn't matter if you are a dwarf or an ogre, things will land about as frequently. This is why the ogre vuln doesn't seem so bad in practice and the demihuman resist doesn't seem so good in practice.

Finally, I wonder about three things:

1. Why on earth are ogres allowed to be avatars?

2. Why would said ogre avatar reach any significant cabal rank?

3. What sort of elite player would play such a combo, even if it were allowed?

Nailed it! I would only like to add one question of my own..

Why on earth, would an ogre, the race with highest regeneration rate and racial regeneration perk, be allowed to pick the healthy perk, which boosts regeneration even more?

Imagine an ogre zerker avatar with the healthy perk...500+ hp per hour of sleep? That would mean taking unspeakeables and shrugging them off in an hours rest.

I had the healthy perk myself and the most I've regenerated per hour was 120 hp.

[Ashuga]

Thanks for reminding me why I left the last time Celerity.

No, why would they if they can just as well play an aggressive Sigil Knight L dwarf cleric who gates after you to your pit, without getting outcasted for it.

I think I'll stay clean of this forum again for the near future.

[Ashuga]

And Egreir, I've fought more than one person at the same time or one right after the other countless times.

[kamikazi]

I don't think her intention was to insult you. Everyone is allowed to play what ever they want and like to. She expressed her opinion, which kind of sounded like an attack.

He kind of has a point about Anamus as well.

[Chesta6384]

Ogre avatar warrior E knight is far more powerful than Anamus by the way.   Everyone is entitled to play what they want that has always been the case.

That said , a good mage , shaman or cleric will beat said ogre.  Every power combo will shine vs most of the pbase.  Not all however,  someone will roll the bane and we will be talking about the other power combo.  Also most of his strength is from his pk knowledge of gear and how to fight in general.  

[kamikazi]

I don't want to insult anyone, but disarming someone while stealing all his weapons until he has none and bash locking him is hardly PK skill, or knowledge. It's broken game mechanics.

[Erelei]

"We want change!" "Change warrior lores that suck! Exotic lore sucks!"

 

*adds chance to disarm nodisarm weapons (that go into inventory on success, not to the disarmer) at less of a rate than regular disarm and iron arm disarm*

Then someone dies to said warrior lore, and now it's OP. 

 

Same happened with shield lore. Flail lore. Dagger lore. It's great when you use it, but when someone else does it's absolutely OP and must be changed now. Even though your tactics made you lose - but once that's realized, it's suddenly the race/class/qrace combo. 

 

If I keep nerfing everything we will all be back at square one, wanting a beef up. 

[kamikazi]

10 minutes ago, Morlhach said:

"We want change!" "Change warrior lores that suck! Exotic lore sucks!"

 

*adds chance to disarm nodisarm weapons (that go into inventory on success, not to the disarmer) at less of a rate than regular disarm and iron arm disarm*

Then someone dies to said warrior lore, and now it's OP. 

 

Same happened with shield lore. Flail lore. Dagger lore. It's great when you use it, but when someone else does it's absolutely OP and must be changed now. Even though your tactics made you lose - but once that's realized, it's suddenly the race/class/qrace combo. 

 

If I keep nerfing everything we will all be back at square one, wanting a beef up. 

Ahahahaha...Exactly the kind of post I was expecting from you. You are right. It's all my fault! Bwahahahahahaha.

I think I've had enough. Go ahead and delete my forum handle if you'd like, only cause I speak my mind openly and am getting attacked, because of that.

It's like that every time I try to suggest, express an opinion, or whine about something. I am always wrong and all is well.

The LAST thing I am going to say...I am not the only one who needs to change his attitude.

[Erelei]

As always, Kamikazi, you're an extremely rude persona on this forum. The only times I've banned you, for what it's worth to the entirety of the community since you brought it up, is abusing the shoutouts when you die to someone else, and posting a long-winded flame about how they're trash and shouldn't have killed you because of 'this this or this'.

That said, I'm not going to ban you for having an opinion. Instead, I'm going to let you wallow in your own delusion that I apparently hate you and that the IMM staff never listens to you and thinks everything is your fault, and we never change anything when you suggest something. (... flail lore, maybe?) 

[Gaunticles]

17 hours ago, Chesta6384 said:

I know your pain kamikaze.  Bit I will tell you that an ogre warrior will almost always beat a fg if played properly and well.  This game, contrary to popular belief, is based on pk. Nobody wants to rp with butter.  They want a solid root.   There is no fixing power combos,  they will always be there and played.   Know who your enemies will be when you roll and don't pick something at a disadvantage because this is where it leads.   Clerics can hold their own against anyone.   Invokers can too cept against dwarves.  Shamans will lol at the slow dying avatar.

I couldn't agree with you more regarding the Lich. It took dedication and a lot of work to earn but playing one was felt like a penalty...

[Chesta6384]

There is nothing wrong with warrior lores.  Each has its advantage.  Wield a cursed weapon if u don't want it stolen.   There is a counter tactic for every tactic you face.   

[kamikazi]

A change has been made to flail lore that I have suggested? I don't even remember playing a flail warrior.

Not saying the STAFF hates me. Just you. Never said I was perfect...as a matter of fact I am a complete idiot that usually speaks, before giving what he says any thought in advance which is what usually gets me in trouble.

I have been banned several times for my outbursts and it was all deserved. But I don't think players here should be judged, because of past things they've done.

A lot of chances have been given to me to try and change, and I believe I have...at least a little bit. Putting aside everything...give what I said so far some thought and maybe, just maybe, you will find some truth behind my words. I am sure I am not the only one whining about said lore and said race/class combo + cabal skills. I have never myself played an exotic master warrior, so I have never used it.

I did play a feign fire giant pre-fix, and I believe I suggested that it needs to be toned down.

I did play a feral shield warrior pre-fix, and I believe I did the same.

[Erelei]

Meh. I meant mace. Ebacha was changed from shield lore, to mace lore. You said it sucked. I obliged and added to it.

[kamikazi]

That is true. I only said it sucked and you changed it. Which really surprised me.

I believe enough has been said. Please lock this thread, since it was a deletion thread, which got completely derailed and I again managed to insult a lot of people for which I am sorry.

[egreir]

Ashuga all I meant was that logging in to 4 cabal enemies these days doesn't mean anything like it used to. Kudos to you for staying logged in but I'm not sure it carries the same weight as it used to when all four of them would be hunting you and didnt care if you were at your temple half dead already. The game is catered to clean and fair play now whereas it used to be extremely ruthless and cut-throat. 

[sarcon]

25 minutes ago, Gaunticles said:

I couldn't agree with you more regarding the Lich. It took dedication and a lot of work to earn but playing one was felt like a penalty...

Exactly my thoughts. 

[Celerity]

I didn't really intend to knock the player of the Ashuga (I don't even know anything about this character). I was more trying to knock the staff a bit for neglecting the ogre issue. That said, anybody who plays a very powerful character had better have a thick skin, because you will never be able to justify your success with skill, even if it was truly the skill that got you there. People will forever attribute your success to poor balancing, and you will bear the brunt of it.

As for the difference between my playing an ogre vs Anamus...When I rolled Anamus, nobody had really played a good cleric in the ten years before and had been successful, especially not a dwarf one (halfling/storm were the better choices at the time). I personally found the good cleric mechanics way too powerful (as was already well understood through the examples of evil clerics), and I made multiple threads on how to rebalance them based on my observations. I think some of them were put into game, but I'm not sure. If you had said dwarf cleric knight before Anamus, people would have laughed you away.

Why didn't I roll an evil cleric or ogre ranger instead? Maybe another ninja? Because their imbalance had already been well-proven. I personally chose my characters on exploring mechanics and playstyles that I didn't know well in order to make design statements to improve the game. I've always done that. I went from super fragile Kaylia to super tanky Anamus and that wasn't an accident.

I'm not saying other players should choose based on helping to rebalance the game, but I do think a player will lose respect by playing combinations which are well-known to be too strong. Just like players get props for playing combinations that are well-known to be weak. People are free to choose whatever combination they want and other people are also free to judge them based on that decision. You may not think that right, but if you want your freedom, you must allow it for others as well.

Concerning 'aggression', I only fought aggressively against Nexians, undead/vampires, and demons. If I ever had battles outside of those groups, it was in pure self-defense, which means I was attacked. Using your movement ability to chase isn't any different from bashing or using any other finishers, in terms of aggression. So I think you have misjudged that bit. When I think of aggressive sigils, I think of the old elf sigil avatar battlemages, Barnok the sigil ninja avatar, and the healers of early 2.0. Anamus played nowhere near as aggressive and was firmly within the sigil and good rules as written, almost to a fanatical point.

[Ambroas]

So it seems simple to me: If these classes have banes and no one seems to be playing them find out why and give reasons to.  Healers for instance, this class while it may be fun and all they all seem to be short lived and people get bored vs the excitement of being able to use the same RP and being great at PK with another class.  So just get the opinions of the playerbase on why they don't play Healers, Druids, Thieves, Ninjas or other classes as much and approach those.  The change on Necromancers really gives me hope that the staff is attempting to draw players to all classes instead of seeing the same things down the who list.

[Killfiend]

I am just going to add my two cents here. Ashuga is a skilled player end of story. And not as godly as you make them sound. Yes it may be a power combo. I have done my share of kicking his arse just as he has done to me multiple times. Learn his tactics and adapt. Use a no remove weapon. Not at all hard to find. Just flee and wield the damn weapon after you can see again. There is nothing incredibly OP about him.