f0xx Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 He hasn't even noticed that the rings he is talking about are no longer rings.... and that's been like that for years now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted July 31, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Seriously though, there are probably like 5 good pieces for each slot for every class atm and we try to make more where there are not 5 yet. So if you think something is missing for a certain class, make a suggestion. We also do not just copy existing stuff but we try to reach more diversity. For example there are 4 torsos now, each of which gives you -15 saves in one of the sub save groups. So know whom you are fighting and chose your chest piece. A good alternative to the more commonly used. There are also a lot of non-rare things now in the yard of the Asylum which are ALMOST as good as the rare alternative and depending on whom you fight, might even be preferable to the rare piece, e.g. inquisitor's gauntlets + socket. We've also upgraded a lot of not much used stuff, see past change logs, but not many people have explored enough there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesta6384 Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 The top pkers will always be on top. They will almost always have the best of the best in gear simply because we know how to take it and we know how to keep it. There has and always be that 'other' level of pkers that make good combos seem OP and it is usually another elite pker that dethrones them. I agree with anume that there are a lot of non rare items now that are close if not better than some rares. People just need to explore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 2 hours ago, f0xx said: He hasn't even noticed that the rings he is talking about are no longer rings.... and that's been like that for years now It is almost like I was making a random generalization referencing an earlier generalization.... Try to contribute literally anything of substance... ever... to anything. Almost as good does not qualify as an alternative. It is simply a knock off of the good thing. An alternative would be something of equal desirability that isn't the same. Almost as good inherently makes something not an alternative, but something you settle for. -15 save chests of different varieties are not comparable, as all saves are not created equal specifically in the availability of super simply acquired non-rares less than a tick from the two most popular hometowns. You can prep for a shaman in about 4 seconds. You can't do the same for an invoker, at least not to the same level, and a bard... well, disputing that would literally tell me everything I need to know about the preconceptions and I'd just move on with my day. Diversity in balance would cause things like effectively every necro being THE maven of Sheol or the fact there are about 3 polearms you would use as anything except a day of trolling for one of those rich white boys pranking people in the hood not happen. Owning 4 retarded, lame horses and a single half-decent thoroughbred doesn't mean you own a stable of racehorses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted July 31, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Explore some of the new and changed eq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal Zoichan Posted July 31, 2016 Immortal Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Give me an example @KRins of a slot you think is terribly lacking, where there is only one item that could go there and be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Polearms. Of the 3 good ones, one is ethos restricted, one is class restricted and the last requires you have double grip or you are effectively not using a polearm. Before anyone says Withering Scythe or Fire Lance, I respond with disarm or bahahaha you have a black heart as a melee. Beyond that they have all the damage noun diversity of the Polish Water Polo team's racial diversity. There's that one random dude who MAYBE is vaguely hispanic... or just owns a tanning bed. But I mean... we could all roll chaotic berserkers I guess. That sounds super diverse. That's pokemon go diverse. Fire Giants, minotaurs and maybe an ogre. It's like pidgey, rattata and MAYBE, should you sacrifice a small goat at first light, a weedle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Each alignment has several good polearms. They're not all "the best" but they are all very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 36 minutes ago, Zoichan said: Give me an example @KRins of a slot you think is terribly lacking, where there is only one item that could go there and be good. I ain't KRins, but I'll bite. Gloves. For both Melee and Mages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Spiked Lightsteel Some lockbox gloves, not sure if I can name them. Rope Climbing Surgeon's Gloves Strangler's Gloves Black Silk Evening Gloves Hell even Runed Black Gauntlets can be competitive with the right socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chesta6384 Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 18 minutes ago, Lloth said: Spiked Lightsteel Some lockbox gloves, not sure if I can name them. Rope Climbing Surgeon's Gloves Strangler's Gloves Black Silk Evening Gloves Hell even Runed Black Gauntlets can be competitive with the right socket. Powerfists Cleaners gloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal Zoichan Posted July 31, 2016 Immortal Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 ou say 'Object 'redsteel inquisitor gauntlets' is type armor, material pyreite.' You say 'Extra flags: socketable.' You say 'Weight is 2.5, value is 100, level is 30, Timer: 0.' You say 'Armor class is 7 pierce, 10 bash, 9 slash, and 5 vs. magic.' You say 'Can be socketed.' You say 'Affects str by 1.' You say 'Adds detect_evil affect.' You say 'Affects con by 1.' You say 'Adds detect_good affect.' You say 'Affects hitroll by 2.' You say 'Affects damroll by 1.' Non rare melee gloves. Add a topaz and thats a 3 hr 1 dam roll gauntlet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 52 minutes ago, Lloth said: Each alignment has several good polearms. They're not all "the best" but they are all very good. If you are talking about things like Thin-bladed compared to Hells Fury... you are literally making me laugh. There are 3 TOP, maybe 4 if you are willing to accept the drawback of the voulge, polearms then a massive wasteland, then withering scythe, then a small sea of turds, then Fire Lance. Everything after this is literally not worth discussing. Again, if you even mention the word thin or bladed... we are gonna have to agree there is a collusion to cop out amongst the IMMs. Thin bladed doesn't even belong in the same conversation as Hells Fury, Blazing Bardiche, Steelfeather (which I say with a loud, hysterical laugh because it is also just awful), or Voulge. Being that each of those actively dismisses large chunks of the Pbase... I am still waiting for a real answer. Beyond that, taking every weapon I have mentioned here... we have physical, fire, and life drain represented. Super dope diversity. You can literally find more diversity in the weapons in elemental canyon. Your created diversity is trumped by a stock area. That's what I think of the diversity efforts. Even should I accept... half-assed weapons as good... thin-bladed, iron pike, icy... all physical. Definitely a solid amount of diversity in the tertiary tier. Basically the only god awful, but still somehow considered "rare", polearm doing any flavor of magic comes from the landfill... and its just abysmal. It exists in my mind so I that I can have a metric of things that are so bad that I wouldn't kill another person for them, breaching RP, because my IRL sympathy would be too strong. Mind you, I only play a caster currently. This isn't a 'hey buff me." This is a "But seriously, the same issue from 10 years ago exists and we are celebrating "progress"?" Beyond that, I will probably be bouncing again soon because seeing 3 people isn't engaging. You shake more hands jungling yi between level 1 and 3 than you do in FL between 1 and 50. I don't need to prove to you that your game isn't successful, the numbers SHOULD tell you that. You need to prove to me, and anyone else considering playing, that it is even worth the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal Zoichan Posted July 31, 2016 Immortal Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 You say 'Object 'whisper thin bladed polearm' is type weapon, material steel.' You say 'Extra flags: antievil antineutral noremove burnproof STAINED.' You say 'Weight is 27, value is 2, level is 42, Timer: 0.' You say 'Weapon type is two-handed polearm.' You say 'Damage is 13d3 (average 26).' You say 'Affects damroll by 2.' You say 'Affects hitroll by 4.' You say 'Unique item.' That doesn't look good to you? It's JUST as good as the one you mentioned, if not better, the flaming bardiche. You say 'Object 'blazing bardiche' is type weapon, material mystic.' You say 'Extra flags: nodrop bless noremove STAINED.' You say 'Weight is 35, value is 4, level is 50, Timer: 0.' You say 'Weapon type is two-handed polearm.' You say 'Damage is 4d12 (average 26).' You say 'Affects polearm by 3.' You say 'Affects hitroll by 2.' You say 'Affects haymaker by 2.' You say 'Affects weapon cleave by 5.' You say 'Affects str by -1.' You say 'I have a feeling only a berserker can use it.' You say 'Unique item.' Don't forget about this one, which is REAL easy to get, and almost always in. You say 'Object 'massive carpenters hammer' is type weapon, material blackiron.' You say 'Extra flags: magic nodrop STAINED.' You say 'Weight is 45, value is 2, level is 50, Timer: 0.' You say 'Weapon type is two-handed polearm.' You say 'Damage is 7d8 (average 31).' You say 'Affects damroll by 4.' You say 'Rare item.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Oh no yeah, without a doubt damroll compares to prof in core skills. That's definitely true... It is almost as logical as me hitting .350 my senior year of high school playing single A ball on top of a mountain in SW Virginia... and expecting a contract in the MLB with the assumption I'd be hitting .350 forever regardless of the competition. The hammer is disarmable, inherently crap compared to the others as you wouldn't use a polearm against a friggin invoker. In fact, the ONLY redeeming trait of the thin-bladed is that it is burnproof... should you have not read the above statement about polearms and invokers. Thin-bladed does look good... except I've met Hells Fury, so I am aware of what good actually looks like. This directly goes back to the bad knock offs not creating diversity, it is a lazy watered down effort to feign diversity at best. When you can have two items and say one is universally better than the other, there is no alternative. Everyone who can flies to Australia from North America... because it turns out planes beat boats like that Polish chick did Rose Namajunas. Hells Fury is universally better than thin-bladed. Hells Fury + a socket and you will literally forget thin-bladed exists. We are also still speaking in terms of exactly 3 types of damage. Meaning... you find more diversity in the two rooms before the Fire Ruler, in an area this staff didn't even design and exists in at least what? 20 or 30 other games bare minimum? Like kudos for running the game, keeping the servers up and what not, but let's stop deceiving each other here... I have made a super valid, not in my mind... in the history of the game, statement and thus far you've actually just... proven it. I did find your joke about thin-bladed being comparable to bardiche, with dramatically worse supplemental stats, hilarious though. You should string about 8 more together and go to an open mic night. You'd kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Education time: 13d3 is MUCH better than 4d12 - lower variance is lower on the former by a considerable amount. Granted, your maximum damage is lower, but consistency of medium-damage is always better than low-damage bottom, high-damage top. You need to take that into consideration when talking about which items are better than others. Weight is also a key factor. There are better bonuses for those skills on other items, also. So this whole thing where you're asking for something, then declaring crusade at answers... come on, dude. Come on. If you want a meaningful discussion, don't talk shit on people who have running object stats for literally every object in the game and some in upcoming areas. Quote Name(s): thick lance air Short description: the air lance Long description: A thick long lance with a leather strap across it lies here. Wear bits: take wield rare Extra bits: hum Number: 1/1 Weight: 150/150/150 (10th pounds) Weapon type is polearm Damage is 8d5 (average 24) Damage noun is air blast. Weapons flags: twohands Affects damroll by 5, level 50. Affects hitroll by 4, level 50. Rare item. Lower average, but hits a hard-to-hit vuln and has significant stat increases. Quote Name(s): wicked trident Short description: a wicked trident Long description: A wicked looking trident is lying on the ground here. Wear bits: take wield rare Extra bits: glow hum antigood antineutral Number: 1/1 Weight: 350/350/350 (10th pounds) Weapon type is polearm Damage is 5d9 (average 25) Damage noun is slash. Weapons flags: vorpal twohands Affects hitroll by 3, level 45. Affects damroll by 5, level 45. Rare item. Not awesome by any stretch of the imagination, but if you need a polearm with decent level 50 stats, here you go. Quote Name(s): infernal felglaive Short description: %n's Infernal Felglaive Long description: %n's Infernal Felglaive glints threateningly. Wear bits: take wield Extra bits: glow hum burnproof Number: 1/1 Weight: 350/350/350 (10th pounds) Weapon type is polearm Damage is 6d8 (average 27) Damage noun is fury. Weapons flags: twohands Affects hitroll by 2, level 51. Affects damroll by 2, level 51. Oowner only polearm you can get really easily. Quote Name(s): massive carpenters hammer Short description: a carpenter's hammer Long description: A massive carpenter's hammer lies in the dirt. Wear bits: take wield rare Extra bits: magic nodrop Number: 1/1 Weight: 450/450/450 (10th pounds) Weapon type is polearm Damage is 7d8 (average 31) Damage noun is crush. Weapons flags: twohands Affects damroll by 4, level 50. Rare item. Come on. This one's in every time I look for one. Quote Name(s): Steelfeather steel feather Short description: the Steelfeather Long description: A long strand of blood red metal rests on the ground. Wear bits: take wield unique Extra bits: evil bless antigood noremove socketable Number: 1/1 Weight: 350/350/350 (10th pounds) Weapon type is polearm Damage is 3d18 (average 28) Damage noun is pain. Affects hitroll by 4, level 50. Affects con by -2, level 50. Affects dex by -2, level 50. Affects cleave by 5, level 50. Affects polearm by 3, level 50. Unique item. That's bad to you? Quote Name(s): onyx lance Short description: an onyx lance Long description: A long piece of onyx is here. Wear bits: take wield rare Extra bits: glow hum antigood antineutral Number: 1/1 Weight: 350/350/350 (10th pounds) Weapon type is polearm Damage is 5d9 (average 25) Damage noun is slash. Weapons flags: vorpal twohands Affects hitroll by 3, level 45. Affects damroll by 5, level 45. Rare item. Always in. Not awesome, but easy to get in a pinch. Quote Name(s): withering scythe Short description: a withering scythe Long description: A wicked looking scythe pulsates violently on the ground. Wear bits: take wield rare Extra bits: socketable Number: 1/1 Weight: 300/300/300 (10th pounds) Weapon type is polearm Damage is 9d5 (average 27) Damage noun is life drain. Weapons flags: twohands Affects hitroll by 3, level 45. Rare item. Not in as much, but not all of them will be around always. I've already put more than 3. Quote Name(s): divine right kings lance polearm Short description: the Divine Right of Kings Long description: A majestic lance bathed in a divine light lies here. Wear bits: take wield rare Extra bits: hum nodrop antievil antineutral Number: 1/1 Weight: 250/250/250 (10th pounds) Weapon type is polearm Damage is 10d4 (average 25) Damage noun is pierce. Weapons flags: twohands Affects hitroll by 4, level 51. Affects damroll by 4, level 51. Affects ac by -25, level 51. Affects polearm by 1, level 51. Affects two handed by 1, level 51. Rare item. See where this is going? Quote Name(s): glowing hummin lance frail fire Short description: a Fire Lance Long description: A strange frail humming lance is here, its surface glowing slightly. Wear bits: take wield rare Extra bits: hum bless burnproof Number: 1/1 Weight: 150/150/150 (10th pounds) Weapon type is polearm Damage is 16d2 (average 24) Damage noun is flame. Weapons flags: flaming twohands Affects damroll by 5, level 45. Affects hitroll by 2, level 45. Affects ac by -20, level 45. Rare item. Hell even the fire lance can flame blind and has good stats. There's plenty of decent polearms in the game. If you haven't played in a while, you should look around before insulting the builders balancing polearms for availability and level. You could have brought up flails, maces, or daggers and made me work harder. There's never going to be 10 polearms, or any weapon for that matter, with average damage over 30. The ones that do exist are going to continue to be low in number. They are supposed to be special and harder to get. If we make a bunch of easy to get polearms that are just as good, the other content will stop getting visited. We're not going to phase out entire zones because some items aren't available outside of PK at most times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Except... literally none of these are noremove, except the one missing the SUPER VITAL flag for twohands. Noremove is the single most desirable trait on a weapon after acceptable avg damage, which I have already talked about. Onyx Lance and Wicked Trident are literally the exact same item except one is slightly worse... which again is not, by definition, diversity. In fact, what is listed here are all the things I already mentioned no one should even be aware of. While I will not pretend to have been the best BLM pilot of all time or even a good one, I did know what I was looking for over all... what 6 of them and a few hundred hours spent? I would have brought up daggers... but honestly trying to accept any answer except "We are sorry Rokujan and Godforged Sacrificial dagger exist in a realm that makes every other dagger worthless" would have just made me angry. The fact you can proceed to provide half the weapon classes as lacking... while trying to defend yourself... is all the support I need to carry myself to the LCS, never mind through this already won, but clearly stonewalled via communal copout, argument. But yeah, just keep rubbing that magic lamp and one day Fire Lance will grow up to be Bardiche or your thin-bladed will pop 50 prac glaive candies and evolve into Hells Fury. Just for future reference, Damroll doesn't = prof in your weapon AND your dispel, listing an item that is admittedly bad and its factually shittier knock off doesn't help your cause and nodrop isn't even in the same conversation as noremove. I'm out to my victory parade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Lloth said: Spiked Lightsteel Some lockbox gloves, not sure if I can name them. Rope Climbing Surgeon's Gloves Strangler's Gloves Black Silk Evening Gloves Hell even Runed Black Gauntlets can be competitive with the right socket. Wait a second.... you are comparing this: Object 'rope climbing rope-climbing gloves' is type armor, material leather. Extra flags: magic. Weight is 0, value is 6000, level is 0. Armor class is 14 pierce, 15 bash, 12 slash, and 8 vs. magic. Affects dex by 2. Affects hitroll by 2. To this: Object 'titanium powerfists fists spiked' is type armor, material titanium. Extra flags: socketable. Weight is 21, value is 2, level is 50. Armor class is 14 pierce, 15 bash, 14 slash, and 10 vs. magic. Can be socketed. Affects two handed by 6. Affects armored rush by 6. Affects str by 1. Affects hitroll by 2. Affects damroll by 2. Rare item. [edit] Quote Education time: 13d3 is MUCH better than 4d12 Oh boy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRins Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 They struggle with the definition of comparable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal Zoichan Posted July 31, 2016 Immortal Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 So I must have misunderstood you, my apologies. I read that there weren't any other good polearms other than hells fury. What you were saying was, there aren't any other average 31 no rem, socketable polearms. On strictly a balance standpoint, do you really want more than 1 of those around? The voulge has better stats (in my opinion) than Hell's Fury, other than the obvious disadvantage that it can only be used by vampires or undead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 Tell you what, feel free to post in prayer forum some item design for a polearm. Post your 27+ average damage POLEARM (the weapon class itself is justification enough for those to be hard to comeby without -any- weapon flag) noremove nodrop flaming vorpal twohands weapon, complete with an appropriately difficult mob to put it on. Include weight, how many there should be, any stat increases, etc. It won't solve your perceived issue of being unable to get a competitive polearm. Literally nobody else has brought up an issue of finding polearms, because they're fine. 2 proficiency in haymaker, by the way, doesn't mean much at all. Like, at all. It's abysmally unimportant in the grand scheme of things. You're going to have to come to terms with the idea that we're not putting any more amazeballs polearms in, especially not in current areas, let alone easy areas to get to. PS: F0xx, I did not say they were equal. But considering one you have to kill a top boss mob to get, and the other you can pick up at 30... let's be real with expectation management. But considering it will never be unobtainable (not rare) you can put it in your locker and go for any of the 10 available. I'm not sure what you guys are expecting. Do you want every piece of armor and every weapon to be the exact same? Do you want more than one Hells Fury? Come on, now. Come on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted July 31, 2016 Report Share Posted July 31, 2016 I miss Volg.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killfiend Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 I don't really remember the last time I used a polearm... And I play primarily melees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 1 hour ago, Lloth said: Education time: 13d3 is MUCH better than 4d12 - lower variance is lower on the former by a considerable amount. Granted, your maximum damage is lower, but consistency of medium-damage is always better than low-damage bottom, high-damage top. Always better? I disagree with this completely. What makes you think this? Damage spikes land the kills, not consistency. The more consistent your output is, the more predictable you are, and will have a subsequently harder time finishing enemies. Thus the great strength of the phantom dragon over monkey/tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted August 1, 2016 Report Share Posted August 1, 2016 Damage spikes do make it easier. Damage drops, though, do not. I also wouldn't compare 9 more weapon damage on an attack with PD. They're not the same at all, and even the concept of the comparison is off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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