Neutrals in syndicate

[Brofessor]

I never really understood this concept. It is frowned upon for neutrals to kill just for armor, and money, but that is what a syndicate does. Hired assassins. Most neutral syndicates rp stops right around "its just business". Maybe it's one of those situations where I'm not directly involved, and therefore I do not see the depth of those characters. I am not targeting anyonew currently, just another thread had a brief discussion in aggressive neutrals, and it got me thinking is all.

 

Why don't rp notes need to be sent with bounties for approval? As the current system works, bounties are being placed on people just because that character exists in the game. On both my current characters I was bounties before I had even interacted with anyone outside of hunting groups, and I never understood how either of those scenarios is acceptable

[FatMike]

Happens to me too. I roll a helluva lot more goodies than anything else in game and while getting to 50 have conversations and interactions with others goods and maybe a neut during ranking and BAM, bountied as soon as I hit 50. I hope the bounties are being placed by goodies or my neutral hunting partners but what is the reason behind placing bounties on someone that you have never interacted with?

[hotspring monkey]

I've asked this numerous times, and thus, the answer is "I need EQ and I'm evil SOB."

[egreir]

There is/was an unwritten rule about bounties:  placing them is the same as killing someone.  If its not in your RP to kill them, you better not be placing bounties.

[Anume]

We do check out bounties on a regular basis and we are asking questions if something seems odd.

[Kyzarius]

I would say being a mercenary is perfectly fine for neutral PK.  And isn't that what a syndicate neutral is? A hired mercenary? 

[Ambroas]

I completely agree with the RP of a neutral syndicate, the only thing that I think needs to be changed is Raid.  War may be neutral but sending your troops to attack an area and murder innocent civilians in the streets for the reason of you don't like one person is evil IMO.  Instead I would love to see raid be a designated attack on a singular person, something like Raid Belderon and Belderon will be attacked by hired thugs, could either have it happen then or have it happen randomly over a period of time.

[Pali]

As I understand it, raids are sent against cities and Tribunal in general - they're not about attacking one Tribune, they're rather the Watcher version of waging war.  Living in a city makes you complicit in the harm the cities cause Nature, so civilians are legit targets.

 

Be careful that you don't transcribe RL morality too strongly onto FL morality.  A paladin is not doing evil by walking around Xymerria killing everything with dark skin and pointy ears, even if IRL we call that genocide.

[Zavero]

Or send thieves to rob folks in the cities to get gold for the Family. Or just to rob Belderon.... 

[Brofessor]

No, but help syndicate, and help neutral, are essentially in direct conflict with each other is my main reason for inquiring. A neutral cannot kill strictly for armor, or gold. Check

A syndicate kills for currency (cabal or gold) and recieves an armor bag after fulfilling a contract. They kill directly for money, and are given a bag containing armor. The only reason for the kill was monetary gain.

[f0xx]

What difference is there between a neutral syndi killing for the bounty and a neutral wm /savant killing for their believes?

A neutral syndi is not just a normal neutral. The bounty basically puts you in cabal warfare with the bountied person. If you kill them, you dont do it because you are evil, but because that's the dogma of your cabal.

Shouldn't a cabal with such dogma then be evil only? I don't so.

Either way the rule about greed not being enough of a reason for neutral to kill exists only to prevent us from having neutrals running around acting like evils using that excuse. Greed though, IMO, is enough of a reason to join a cabal. After all it's greed for power/perfection that allows savants and WMs to join their respective cabals.

[Manual Labour]

Brofessor I think you are confusing real life morals with those of this world.

Killing and death is very much a part of FL and killing isn't evil in FL, if it was goodies would never kill anyone. What matters is not killing but the motive behind it. A cabal like syndicate seems evil but I think it is fundamentally neutral because as a whole it is not bent on destruction and chaos like a Nexus for example. Neutrals, and goods are totally allowed to kill, just like evils, the only difference is non evils need a reason whereas evils truly do not, or if they do it could be any reason at all. Ethos also plays a major role in this but it isn't pertinent to this discussion.

Bottom line is that syndicate as a cabal serves many purposes, just like watcher. So it is not evil for neutrals to kill and raid for these purposes. Sure if you isolate the death of one person or civilian under a microscope it can appear evil, you have to look at the bigger picture to understand that the motives are in fact neutral.

[Brofessor]

I am not confusing real life with Aabahran. Read help neutral, read help syndicate. Regardless of the role syndicate plays, it is directly in conflict with aabahran's definition of neutrality as far as reasons for neutral aggression.

[Manual Labour]

Ok maybe it isn't real life that is confusing you, perhaps it is cabals. The point about motive that I made is still valid. Neutrals without affiliation need a proper motive to rob or kill someone. You are making it sound like neutrals are forbidden to steal or kill at all for any reason. As soon as you introduce a cabal the motive becomes more complex. When a bounty is collected it is not ONLY for the purpose of greed for a specific item. The motivation for the bounty hunter to do their job goes beyond I killed him for 50k gold and a some rings.

That being said even an uncaballed neutral is still allowed to rob and kill people, they just need a reason for it beyond "I wanted his stuff"

[f0xx]

1 hour ago, Brofessor said:

I am not confusing real life with Aabahran. Read help neutral, read help syndicate. Regardless of the role syndicate plays, it is directly in conflict with aabahran's definition of neutrality as far as reasons for neutral aggression.

Quote

help neutral
NEUTRAL

Neutrals derive their name from the fact that their behavior is marked by
neither philanthropy nor malice, or perhaps both in equal proportions.
Although some may choose to engage in violence as part of their chosen
profession, no one who is truly neutral would have the callous disregard
for others to murder without a clear justification for the killing.
Neutrals who kill excessively without reason, or for reasons considered
purely selfish or malicious, will be turned to the path of Darkness.

Because they are servants of neither the Gods of Light or the Gods of
Darkness, neutrals are more free from bias in their adherence to their
ethos.

 

I see cabal warfare (or bounties) as enough justification.

[Brofessor]

But if a neutral that is not a syndicate repeatedly kills for money and srmor, they get outcast. It was said in another thread by anume that a neutral killing for money, or equipment is not acceptable neutral role play. I don't see how saying well I'm a syndicate changes that. Just because you're in a cabal makes it ok? 

[Brofessor]

Composed of every shade of criminal from whores to deadly assassins, the
Syndicate cabal has established itself as a business enterprise like no
other.  If there is profit to be head, and blood to be spilled their
intricate network of spies, killers and henchmen can be found.  From
espionage to assassinations, from extortion to kidnapping, from drug deals
to legitimate trades their influence may be found in every facet of common
life.  

 

If a non syndicate repeatedly engages in murder for profit,  that neutral will be outcast.  It was said by Anume that killing for money, and gear as non neutral is not acceptable roleplay is  unacceptable neutral rp. Why does it become nunc cep table cep table when you're a syndi. Syndicate is motivated by profit, and murder as per the helpfile. 

 

That's what I am saying. A syndicate is a hired assassin. You kill solely for profit, that is what they do. A neutral cannot use profit as their reason for murder. Why does that rule change when yoy become a syndicate

[Magick]

Exception to the rule?  Any Joe Blow can roll a neutral but Syndicate only has 10 slots to which they also share with Merchant.

[f0xx]

25 minutes ago, Brofessor said:

But if a neutral that is not a syndicate repeatedly kills for money and srmor, they get outcast.

We are talking about a neutral syndicate here. Not "just neutral".

If you are going to be anal about RP, why mention just syndicate? What makes it any different from neutral in WM, Savant, Watcher, Tribunal?

Your cabal is an extension to your RP.

[Erelei]

This will not be changed any time soon. It is currently within perfect RP for a neutral to be a Syndicate and hunt bounties placed by others.