Saves vs Saves

[sarcon]

Ok, can someone give me the breakdown with regards to Spell saves vs afflictive, maledictive and mental ones. 

Now, if my memory serves me correctly your spell saves is almost an indicator of all your saves. So if you have like -20 saves, all your other spells are in theory -20. Like Afflictive, Maledictive and Mental would technically be at -20, even if they are at let's say -10. Is this the case?

I'm trying to get a better understanding of the relationship between them. If my spell saves is like -2 and my mental is like -25, is it still suffering because my saves is at -2? If I'm building a character specifically for mental protections, which one of these saves is more important? I'm bringing this up because I remember once when i had my saves at -35 and mental at -6, that said person couldn't dispel me still. 

Any clarification on this would help. Thanks! 

[egreir]

Save vs Spell (svs):  This covers ALL mal, aff, and mental spells at a 1:1 ratio (-1 svs is the same as -1 mal)   *this may not be 100% accurate but thats the belief I've always gone off of*

So if you have -5svs and -20mal, you essentially have -25mal

[f0xx]

If you have -20 svs and -2 mental then you have -22 mental, -20 aff, -20 mal.

There are some offensive spells that classify as "other" though. I think against those only the SVS works. But don't hold my word on it.

[sarcon]

Ok thanks! Though.. I remember with Yewtrunk I had my saves at -45 and -8 mal and in theory I would have had -55 mal. However, i couldn't protect myself from anything the shaman casted on me, so that started to make me question this breakdown. It was almost as if I was naked. All spells landed first shot. 

[egreir]

44 minutes ago, sarcon said:

Ok thanks! Though.. I remember with Yewtrunk I had my saves at -45 and -8 mal and in theory I would have had -55 mal. However, i couldn't protect myself from anything the shaman casted on me, so that started to make me question this breakdown. It was almost as if I was naked. All spells landed first shot. 

I don't know how spell level comes into play. If you're talking about Lykiss I think she had max spell lvl   I wouldn't be surprised if your -55 was more like -20 against her

[hotspring monkey]

Lykiss was dead before Yewtrunk existed. Just fyi. For Aulian: I'm DRUNK.

EDIT: And daymn @egreirshe was HE  Get your privilege straight. Or offend.

[Magick]

I can't add any more to what was said previous about how saves are added.  It's pretty cut and dry.  Foxx is right in that "other" spells are only affected by SVS.  Most "other" spells are self spells though such as mirror image, curse weapon, dancing blade and identify.

 

1 hour ago, sarcon said:

Ok thanks! Though.. I remember with Yewtrunk I had my saves at -45 and -8 mal and in theory I would have had -55 mal. However, i couldn't protect myself from anything the shaman casted on me, so that started to make me question this breakdown. It was almost as if I was naked. All spells landed first shot. 

There's two particular points about shamans, though.  The first is deteriorate, which has been alluded to on several recent threads.  On a character of mine with -50 or lower saves across the board, this spell would effectively cut it in half.  Yay.  (I'm not sure what the reduction is, but I was hit for +22 SVS on multiple occasions.)  The higher your saves, the more it reduces them.

The second is shamans cast malediction spells at their current level while everyone else from Dark Knights to Necromancers cast it three levels lower.  If memory serves, this means your effective saves are higher against those with spell level rank disadvantage.

[FatMike]

26 minutes ago, Magick said:

The second is shamans cast malediction spells at their current level while everyone else from Dark Knights to Necromancers cast it three levels lower.  If memory serves, this means your effective saves are higher against those with spell level rank disadvantage.

Why is it like that?

[muddmann]

I believe because a shaman depends completely almost on their spellumup and run them dead tactic.. cause that's always what they do to me... always..

[Chesta6384]

Because why pay a shaman if Necro mals were just as strong... or even a dks

 

[f0xx]

10 hours ago, FatMike said:

Why is it like that?

Play a shaman and you will find out

 

[FatMike]

I have one at 50. Kthanksbye

[Anume]

In other words, balance reasons. Shamans are all about attrition. The need their victims to have a harder time curing their mals to stand a chance to wear them down.

 

As to saves, what has already been said. Sv spell goes to cover ALL categories, that is why it is the most useful.

If you have 
Affl: -10         Maled: -22      Mental: -20     Breath: -10       Spell: -10 

that means the spell gets added to each category, so you have affl -20, mal - 32, mental - 30 and breath -20 in above example.

[mya]

16 hours ago, Magick said:

I can't add any more to what was said previous about how saves are added.  It's pretty cut and dry.  Foxx is right in that "other" spells are only affected by SVS.  Most "other" spells are self spells though such as mirror image, curse weapon, dancing blade and identify.

 

There's two particular points about shamans, though.  The first is deteriorate, which has been alluded to on several recent threads.  On a character of mine with -50 or lower saves across the board, this spell would effectively cut it in half.  Yay.  (I'm not sure what the reduction is, but I was hit for +22 SVS on multiple occasions.)  The higher your saves, the more it reduces them.

The second is shamans cast malediction spells at their current level while everyone else from Dark Knights to Necromancers cast it three levels lower.  If memory serves, this means your effective saves are higher against those with spell level rank disadvantage.

What they all said.
But ... some stuff has changed in the saving of spells.

Mainly, I *think* there are several spells that your (AFF+SVS) decrease linearly the damage of the spell. This was notoriously in the past with Fireball and fire related spells. I suspect that now this affects many other spells. Perhaps what we are seeing here with "Steam" is just that. I never recall Jet Steam melting dwarves for *** DEMOLISHES *** through sanctuary. What I think it's happening is that if you have LOW saves, you get a linear negative reduction on spell damage, or in other words, the spell does more damage to you. Of course I could be wrong...
 

I also have a small suspection that high saves aren't what they used to be. That spells now can pierce really high saves in a way they didn't in the past.