Belderon Vs Ellix

[hotspring monkey]

Yeah, I'll keep drinking beer and being miserable. Hoo rah.

[Kyzarius]

oh I noticed too that he casts after being dirted.  Another big mistake against a superior melee class using your vuln. 

[Anonymous]

16 minutes ago, Manual Labour said:

That weapon seems pretty fair...

I don't wanna defend them TOO hard, but remember that a bard can't use other weapons. So, whereas other classes can set up with different weapons for different situations, a bard uses just instruments. 

Anonymous poster hash: e829f...dc9

[kamikazi]

Just instruments with 20 procs, being to handed no removes, hitting any vuln in game? He was dealing MASSACRES and MANGLES to my undead dkn with a 5th lvl blood filled voulge malform and I was hitting him once per round and he was hitting me 3-4 four times. He even fought me without his guard and I was constantly paralyzed and harsh dischorded into oblivion. 

Lloth...I don't know about my behaviour, or anyone elses, but is freaking obvious you are overdoing your IMM act. I suggest you chill out a bit, otherwise at the end the other IMMs are finally going to start to care and kick you out. Work on that attitude, mate. I know I am.

[the_nightmare]

Lloth, do you call this normal?

Also this weapon paralyses , does flaming bite and etc. Also let me remind you that only bard knows this weapon. What about the buffs? I bet that naked only wielding that drum he has more than 30 hit/dam.

 

Then tell me about not playing the class.

 

 

Object 'instrument bongo percussion black opal' is type weapon, material black opal.

Extra flags: glow hum nodrop noremove psienhance nouncurse.

Weight is 3, value is 4, level is 50.

Weapon type is two-handed instrument.

Damage is 6d8 (average 27).

Affects ac by -30.

Affects savingspell by -10.

Affects hitroll by 9.

Affects str by 10.

Affects hp by 51.

Affects damroll by 3.

Affects hitroll by 3.

You have a feeling only a bard can use it.

You determine that a black opal bongo won't ever crumble.

Rumor has it you can find it in Limbo.

[Trick]

I think everyone needs to calm down. You guys are talking to one another with such extreme disrespect about something that can be easily changed if we all want it to. I am so sick and tired of this fucking community treating each other like garbage. Fucking ridiculous.

I sure as hell don't want you guys to tear out each other's throats over my character. Like I said, if Belderon is going to cause this much negativity and problems then I'll just delete and that'll be the end of it. 

[the_nightmare]

We are not discussing only your character, we are discussing the bards overall, sorry for using your character as an example man. Do not be mad, nobody is upset at Belderon. I have seen only good things from your character and amazing sportsmanship.

[hotspring monkey]

What just @Trick said. I'm sick AF of this communitys hostility against others.
It makes me wanna go EMO and delete all my chars that contribute something to this community.

But then I listen to 

and I change my mind.

[f0xx]

10 minutes ago, the_nightmare said:

Do not be mad, nobody is upset at Belderon.

You just personally attacked him.

Quote

But i forgot that dwarf bards cannot be played anymore, maybe because they are not OP?

I will tell you this. Dwarf bards are not op. He would have been just as strong if he was avain, drow, human, whatever. Taking pot shots at him is not cool man.

[the_nightmare]

I am using him as an example because he is the only dwarf bard atm. If there was another I would use him as an example also. Please do not try to derail the topic into "you are attacking Belderon" because you perfectly know that I am not. Also as you know f0xx, I dont have to fight Belderon IG , so I don't need to attack him OOC for anything. Just take a look at this weapon and it becomes clear there is some serious issue with bards. It is not fair for the playerbase to invest time in hoarding for items just to make their character perfect in PK mod while someone can just get 30 hit/dam naked just with one drum or lute or quitar or whatever. Weapons that can achieve such mods are malforms and crusader's holy weapons which are very hard to obtain and can be lost if you are not careful. What about the 2 round lag that cannot be stopped or the weapon type "instrument" that should be immediately turned into "exotic" if you ask me.

[Lloth]

Of the weapon mod classes that exist, bards have the weakest. Considering how much goes into making them, most won't get weapons that strong. Belderon smartly built his instruments to capitalize on vulns of his enemies' races and classes. I am telling you to play the class, because you are ignoring the fact presented to you that bards do not know any weapon that nobody else knows. They are just the only class that knows them at 100%.

 

Yes, that instrument is strong. It has a lot going for it. That said, malforms and sader weapons are VASTLY stronger. Btw, the voulge is not as good of a malform as its being touted as. Due to restrictions on conversing maforms or sader weapons, I can't explain exactly why. 

But of course, God forbid I post anything factual that contradicts your gripe, lest I be abusing my immortal status. 

Look, I tried the whole stance of just taking crap from people, but that just makes people  think it's ok to act like a child. So I won't do it anymore. If that bothers you, don't act like a child. 

Back on topic. I agree with the suggestion of making instruments made of exceptional materials rare. I also love the idea of replacing progs, and some stats, with skill/song bonuses. I would love to see some of the higher end materials give an enhanced effect to a song (depending on the material of course). 

 

But this thread isn't the place for that. Nor is it the place to take shots at another character. It's here for constructive criticism. Personal opinion of how OP something is, a certain race/class combo, or whatever else.

Especially when you've never played it. Which is why said play it. The same thing that's said almost every time somebody calls "OP". Play it and roll the pbase.

[kamikazi]

Well...not that I want to push this any further, but I have played a bard. That kind of instument is not hard to achieve at all. It can be built from scratch in three hours. Please show me how you make a malform close to it's power in three hours...Please...And I pointed out my weapon of choice to show that it is the most defensive weapon in game and still he was hitting me 3-4 times per round as if I got no defenses at all. Coupled with the paralysis that lands EVERY round and the harsh discord, something is really wrong with the picture. Paralysis was unique to only the undead race and it was actually one of the perks to rolling an undead and opening yourself up to that extreme VULNERABILITY. Now eveyone can paralyze, but undeads still get hit for MANGLES trough sanc with a holy weapon. Balance? Hell no.

[the_nightmare]

I gave constructive enough constructing criticism without attacking anyone. Also here are my ideas:

Make the instruments exotic.

Make harsh dischord with cooldown of 2 hours so you can lag your opponent only when you have to, with a good timing. Trick said that he doesnt have anything versus communers/casters. Rangers, Warriors and so on dont get anything versus communers casters also but their "murder" command.

[Anonymous]

1 minute ago, kamikazi said:

Well...not that I want to push this any further, but I have played a bard. That kind of instument is not hard to achieve at all. It can be built from scratch in three hours. Please show me how you make a malform close to it's power in three hours...Please...

Well then you haven't thought about the time invested in 

1. Gathering the materials you need

2. Training your Gathering skills to where you can actually gain the right materials. 

3. The time you must spend to get the correct materials to make the right weapon you want. 

I have played a decent bard, Leongar and I promos you it takes much more than a couple hours to make the perfect weapon.  Expecially a weapon with everything the one in the example uses.  

 

 

@Trick please please do not delete belderon! I'm not done with you yet!                                                                                     Ellix

Anonymous poster hash: 495f5...9fc

[Killfiend]

My two cents. Just stop. This thread is literally going no where. here i'll say it. STFU for gods sake. if you can't calmly discuss something then just don't post. Belderon is a freakin' powerhouse. That is plainly obvious. Look at who plays it. One of the best players here. End of story. Where are the rest of these OP bards? That's right. The ONE person to be EXTREMELY successful with is, the same person that I am damn sure has told the imms of a few things that really are OP and that have been changed, is being made the symbol of OPness? Come on. Just stop it. Sure you played a bard and got nowhere and deleted? Doesn't mean you know the class.....

[Trick]

Warriors have the ability to dual wield weapons that a caster does not know. Like flails or axes, for instance. Weapons that have a considerably higher attack value than an instrument.

Rangers have pets, insectswarm, thunderstorm, and the use of axes/flails to use against casters.

Has anyone seen me try to sing a song outside of four seasons very often? I might go for a lullaby or against Kamikazi's undead I tried rest in peace. Most songs are designed to affect melee characters and even then they do not land reliably. When I tried to take this route, I struggled big time. 

Dissonance is not 2 rounds of lag, it is one round of lag. 

[Anonymous]

I've destroyed Belderon but this thread makes me feel fucking sick.
Oh and he has handed my ass to me more than once.. but hey.
 

-Lisko

Anonymous poster hash: ce143...0c3

[kamikazi]

Wait wait wait...How am I the bad guy without attacking anyone and only pointing out the flaws in mechanics? Sheesh...And I got somewhere with my bard, but I will end my posting right now, cause I'm gonna start insulting people that are trying to insult me for something I haven't even said.

[the_nightmare]

1 minute ago, Trick said:

Warriors have the ability to dual wield weapons that a caster does not know. Like flails or axes, for instance. Weapons that have a considerably higher attack value than an instrument.

Rangers have pets, insectswarm, thunderstorm, and the use of axes/flails to use against casters.

Dissonance is not 2 rounds of lag, it is one round of lag. 

Bard has the weapon that nobody knows and this weapon is much better than anything you can get IG I can also freely compare this weapon to the crusader's holy one.

Disonance is 2 rounds of lag because you wait for the paralyze to kick in everytime and then start to use it as it can be seen in the log.

[muddmann]

Everyone knows instruments at 75%

[Trick]

8 minutes ago, the_nightmare said:

Bard has the weapon that nobody knows and this weapon is much better than anything you can get IG I can also freely compare this weapon to the crusader's holy one.

Disonance is 2 rounds of lag because you wait for the paralyze to kick in everytime and then start to use it as it can be seen in the log.

First off, everyone knows instruments at 75%. Secondly, I don't wait for anything to kick in. It just so happens to kick in. I can't control it. I can post several logs of paralyze not firing at all. 

I'm not arguing that the instruments are strong. They are strong. But its also all I can use. In order for a bard to not have access to every vuln available, then best course is to make them rare if they are from certain materials. This will force the bard to select only what he needs and discard the rest. @Zoichan here for that idea. Also, I said earlier that I think paralyze is too widely available in this game and it needs to be removed from a lot of things, bard instruments being one of them. The steel-linked whip and obsidian plummet, as well.

Your information is not 100% accurate in all aspects and you're using things against me that I agree with you about. Such as paralyze. 

[Anonymous]

Can we just lock this? If I knew everyone was gonna open up on Belderon for it I wouldn't have posted it jeez.

Anonymous poster hash: 495f5...9fc

[kamikazi]

The plummet deteriorates from what I recall, but it might have been changed as well. Steel linked whip's proc lands every round. I am sure that paralysis has been added to a few more weapons and as a whole it should not exist. What perks to undeads gain as things are? The consume which is worthless? Just the fear which rarely lands and in return they get a huge vuln. Personally if I ever start playing again, I will not bother myself to roll undead when I can get paralyzing weapons with ease and won't have to worry about anyone wielding a blackwatch sword and a rod of hollyness two rounding me.

[the_nightmare]

Yes, I also think that paralyze shouldnt be that common to find. Maybe except the good old Arctron

[Trick]

I will say that I think its far too easy to get paralyzing weapons AND holy weapons. It makes undead life extremely difficult for how common they are. 

1. Blackwatch Sword(Nodrop)
2. Rod of Holiness
3. Archrend(Norem, nodrop, burnproof, owner only)
4. Axe of Righteous Fury
5. Golden Maul(dispel undead)
6. Mace from Willow Palm I think
7. Bastard Sword
8. Rod of Light/Lance of Imbalance/Lightblade/Solar Grasp of Wendigo(Light weapons, hurts Vamps/Lich)
9. Faith Malforms
10. Crusader Weapons
11. Promethium Instruments
12. Staff of Retribution(Wrath)
13. Knight's arrows(Light or Holy? Can't remember)
14. Knight's Elder Chaosbane
15. Nexus Chaosblades can be made to hit holy.
16. Watcher's Herighon

Uhh.. I think that's most/all?