bmg spells blades & dancing blade

[Gaunticles]

how would items that give spelllvl affect these spells ?

[Ambroas]

Someone Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they would.  Blades has a set damage based on level I believe and Dancing blade depends on the weapon you dance more so than the spell itself.

[f0xx]

I am pretty curious about this one myself.

[Pali]

1 hour ago, Ambroas said:

Blades has a set damage based on level I believe

True... so why wouldn't +spelllvl eq increase that damage?  I suspect they, and dancing blade, also will act as attacks from a higher level foe in terms of accuracy calculations.

[Magick]

If I'm reading this correctly (and I doubt either spell has been changed greatly in a long while), blades does take level into account for damage in addition to the usual of how hard it is to dispel and duration.  Be that caster level or the level the spell is cast at is a little fuzzy.  But even if it's the spell level, the way it's calculated, you're not going to see much of an improvement with an additional level.  Damage is calculated into damage dice.  Skill calculated number of dice (d1) and level (spell or otherwise) does dice type (d2).  At 100% proficiency and at level 50, your damage is:

d1: (100-75)/5 [=5]
d2: (50-30)/5 [=4]

This turns it into 5d4 damage.  Average 12.5 damage that's then modified by damroll.

Turning your level into 51 (actual or spell, matters little) would keep d1 at 5 whild d2 becomes 4.2 to make 5d4.2 damage, or average 13 damage.  From what I read, boosting your damroll is much more effective for this spell than adding more spelllvl gear.  Of course, this isn't to say that +spelllvl gear on a BMG is bad, just doesn't affect this one spell much.

 

Dancing blade almost works the same, but I don't think (aside from dispel/duration) that the damage is affected at all as the damage dice incurred is pulled directly from the blade being danced.  Namely the weight of the item, damage and the +hit/dam modifiers on the blade itself if my memory isn't fuzzy.  I'll have to double check, but I'm running out of time and need to pick the kid up from preschool.  If I remember (or can be bothered), I'll double check and edit this post.

Edit: Looking into it, I see that Dancing Blade is ... I have no words.  To a non-coder looking to data mine, it's ugly.  I'll just leave the note here as that seems to make at least some sense:
 

- Dam roll based on weight/2 + to_Dam * value1 + damage dice

For some of those values, I'm not 100% what they are though I have an idea, but I'm not going to dive deeper into the code to figure it out.  Not worth the time.  I'm confident though, in that it says that spell level doesn't affect damage.

[Gaunticles]

Wait are you saying if I stacked Damroll like the warriors it would hit harder?

[Kyzarius]

no hes saying enchanting the item for more hit/dam might help, but isnt sure. 

[egreir]

The higher level a bmage casts their defensive spells, the more defensive they are going to be.

The higher level the blades spell is cast the more damage you will get out of it based on raw damage + ignoring defenses

 

Yes if you add hit/dam to the weapon that you dance it will perform better

 

 

*DISCLAIMER* 

I'm running off of about 3 hours sleep in the last 3 days and am at work trying to catch up...any and all information mentioned in this post is probably not accurate and is based off pure speculation from years of playing successful battlemages.

[Magick]

 

5 hours ago, Gaunticles said:

Wait are you saying if I stacked Damroll like the warriors it would hit harder?

Blades yes, Dancing Blade no.  Or at least that's what I'm reading, so take it with a grain of salt.  I'd like to test this to be sure as I usually doubt myself when data mining the code.  Shouldn't be difficult to do.  Blades vs a mob: check damage, tank your damroll by striping and wearing talismans, then checking damage again.  If you go from caps damage to mauls and wounds, it's probably true.

 

4 hours ago, Kyzarius said:

no hes saying enchanting the item for more hit/dam might help, but isnt sure. 

For Dancing Blade, correct.  Again, I'd love to test this out using something like a throwing axe vs a tooled up throwing axe.

 

4 hours ago, egreir said:

The higher level the blades spell is cast the more damage you will get out of it based on raw damage + ignoring defenses

More damage yes, but minor overall if your level is all that's increasing and by the single level, as explained above.  As for ignoring defenses both Blades and Dancing Blade can be at least dodged and parried, though Dancing Blade does have a proc that I believe is unblockable.

[mya]

Don't bother with spell lvl for better blades/dancing damage, bother with it for dispel and sear and stuff that checks your opponent saves.

If you really tryng to get more output from the meele passive of the BMG, just get a better dancing blade. Voulge or Sword in Desolation or Knight Pretorian axe.
Once you have a good blade just focus on your tactics. BMG win in many cases by shear attrition and a quick burst, and that is where good aligned bmg shine.

Also magic "would keep d1 at 5 whild d2 becomes 4.2 to make 5d4.2 damage,"
There is no 4.2, in an int (Integer) there is no fractionary part, 5.9 is 5. And that 4.2 is still four.

 

 

[Magick]

7 hours ago, mya said:

Also magic "would keep d1 at 5 whild d2 becomes 4.2 to make 5d4.2 damage,"
There is no 4.2, in an int (Integer) there is no fractionary part, 5.9 is 5. And that 4.2 is still four.

 

You're right, but that wasn't the point.

[Crispeecream]

For dancing blade, does the blade type matter? Is axe more offensive than polearm than sword..etc?

 

Also is it known what stat gets taken into account the most? Weight vs avg dam vs hit/dam vs weapon type 

[Ulmusdorn]

Experiment. 

The heavier the weapon - the better.

The more hit dam - the better. 

I believe with higher hit dam the chance of progs will increase. Think whirlwinds and tripping

Disclaimer: I'm a newbie imm. None of this is insider knowledge, take what I say as a complete lie before you take it as absolute turth  

[Magick]

Type shouldn't matter except in ability to cast the spell.  You can't dance a whip for example, but a weight 30, 32 average damage sword should do the same as a weight 30, 32 average damage axe.

As far as "the most," each stat lends something different to the spell, the details of which I'm still a little fuzzy on.  Something like level is to hitroll as weight is to damroll.  "The most" becomes a little subjective as it doesn't matter how hard you can damage if you can't hit it (low hitroll; high damroll) while you can do a "death of 1,000 cuts" from a high hitroll, low damroll.  As a high avg damage usually equates to a high level, just be on the lookout for a heavy high avg weapon and you should be good.

[FatMike]

Does the opponents skill in the mages weapon choice matter in regards to them defending? I would assume so, but not sure.

[Magick]

I'd like to say yes, but I'm honestly not sure.  Sounds like something to test.

[mya]

I'd like to say no, but I'm honestly not sure.  Sounds like something to test.