Zhurong Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 I agree with Trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted October 2, 2016 Report Share Posted October 2, 2016 Perhaps that should be a discussion that is had, but I would think it should have its own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted October 3, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 If you want to break an alliance, send a vote and cancel it. Don't just attack your ally. That's simply cabal rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmusdorn Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 1. If you attack allied cabals - expect to risk expulsion... You've gone through 0 RP channels and drummed 0 support for your 180 approach. That's in direct opposite in your cabals current thinking. Get 2-3 people on your side and start a vote? Now that's a political movement with some lee way. See where I'm going? 2. Player run cabals. Not everyone is on the same RP or PK level as Trick. Would I trust all of my watchers to run my cabal? No. They need development. They need practice. They need mentoring and they need to learn what it takes to be an E or an L. Normally its along the lines of sublime RP and better then mediocre PK. We have to trust you to be 100% IC, unbiased with 0 OOC being thrown into the mix to be player run. To be honest, you're being asked to be given an imm privilege by running a cabal 100% independently. How many of you think your fellows can be that 100% unbiased? (Do I need to remind us all how we've recently reacted in the negative to a number of strong characters, Belderon being one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted October 3, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 I'd say if they got great rp, mediocre pk skill works very well for E. Ask Dey when he got his first Watcher E. Hehehe. And then he surprised us all and turned into a monster. Fun times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 I'm with @Lloth on this one. Alliances are to be taken seriously. If you want to do some shit, break it, and then do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambroas Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 On the note about being chaos and all: Though you might want to cause chaos by breaking ties and attacking maybe you have cabal members who rely on them for supplies or have other plans going on. If you wanted to betray it's just as easy to get people together and plan the vote then attack right when it's announced you've broken ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Breaking alliances is you, going against the cabal rules your cabal mates have voted on. You say you are not breaking any rules by doing so, but you are. Upon entrance, you accept the cabal RP, goals and vow to work for the benefit of your cabal. Attacking an alliance member is a blatant break of those rules. It is like letting your enemy capture your standard so you can easier coup your superior. "I am chaotic" is a very poor excuse. If you want to backstab an alliance, always do it the RP way, not the PK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_nightmare Posted October 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Okay but why we derail the thread? I was asking for an old FL cabal induction system or when you complete current amount of quests for the given cabal - you are allowed to send an application in automatically.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 I'm sorry, did I just basically read that the cabal IMMs now dictate how the players decide to handle alliances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted October 3, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Cabal rules have not changed since 1.0. If a character breaks the cabal rules: not defending, not trying to retrieve repeatedly, breaking an alliance intentionally without dissolving it, then yes, it will have consequences to their cabal progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 33 minutes ago, egreir said: I'm sorry, did I just basically read that the cabal IMMs now dictate how the players decide to handle alliances? No, you did not read that. Players, as always, decide which cabal to join. By doing this they agree to respect its vendettas and alliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 That's exactly what I read. The following situation in our environment can occur, and from what's being said here, would be punished. Unfairly, in mine and others' opinion: I enter an empty, inactive cabal. I'm now a T in the cabal (rank doesn't really matter). My character has nothing but negative experience with an allied cabal, who they never voted to be allied with, didn't know the cabal was allied with. My character, the leading ranked cabaled person, decides these people don't deserve our allegiance and engages in battles with these people and gets punished. In no way shape or form should an IMM be stepping on my toes here. It's supposed to be a completely organic political landscape like @Trick said. Not IMMs using us as puppets to fit their own agendas and punishing us when we don't agree with them or do what they think should happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatMike Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Couldn't you create a vote to end the alliance even as the sole member of said empty cabal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted October 3, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 If there is no higher ranking cabal member, your cabal Imm can send a vote for you to dissolve the alliance. It is not a free card to break cabal rules. Even as an Inductee, you can send poll votes btw. Edit: I'm a fan of letting the mortals decide on which pacts they want completely btw. I'll only get involved if they do something that either goes against hardcoded vendettas, or is a detriment to the game as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magick Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Don't be like Japan and bomb Pearl Harbor before you can get your declaration of war delivered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 8 hours ago, the_nightmare said: Okay but why we derail the thread? I was asking for an old FL cabal induction system or when you complete current amount of quests for the given cabal - you are allowed to send an application in automatically.... Never going to happen. Ever. It has been asked for before and it has been ignored before. It won't happen. 1 hour ago, egreir said: I'm sorry, did I just basically read that the cabal IMMs now dictate how the players decide to handle alliances? Yes you did. I fully believe that IMMs should only be involved in a cabal for specific reasons. Alliances, vendettas, and whatever else politically should NOT be apart of this. If someone decides to go against an alliance, especially if they didn't agree to it, then maybe the cabal members should make moves to remove that person if they so desire, whether that be to send a vote or just kill them outright. 2 minutes ago, Anume said: If there is no higher ranking cabal member, your cabal Imm can send a vote for you to dissolve the alliance. It is not a free card to break cabal rules. Even as an Inductee, you can send poll votes btw. Where is this rule displayed? Is it in help cabal or any topic? Our help files are HORRIBLY out of date for what this current Staff wants to be the case. We have TWO cabals that promote killing within the cabal to move through the ranks, but you're going to get OUTCAST and kicked from a cabal from not adhering to an alliance? Get outta here with that nonsense. Not much consistency here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trick Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Anume said: Edit: I'm a fan of letting the mortals decide on which pacts they want completely btw. I'll only get involved if they do something that either goes against hardcoded vendettas, or is a detriment to the game as a whole. Which is great. Let their actions against an allied cabal come with IG consequences from their allies or their cabal-mates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted October 3, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 If you break the cabal's rules, you're gonna get kicked out of that cabal. I don't think this is very productive. Just make a poll if you have no E, then ask your imm to send a vote, or outright ask the Imm to send a vote if you already know your cabal mates support you. Then, you can hunt them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted October 3, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 And trick, I really dislike it when you talk about things where you only know or mention a 4th of what happened and then make a general statement about it. So, let us rephrase your statement to capture a bit of the truth: if you invite your cabal enemy to take your standard, do not defend nor retrieve it, intentionally do everything to ruin your cabal while you are still in it, then yes, you will suffer in game consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 ask your imm, get your imm to do this, imm imm imm imm imm Is this the IMMs game or the player's game? Over the years this has been so very lost and I've said, for years, this game will continue to be stagnant as the player's lost the ability to make this world their own instead of catering to an imm driven world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted October 3, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Yes, Egreir, we all saw how the buddy-buddy cabal management worked in 2.0. Let's keep it a bit fair instead for people who don't have ooc friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloth Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 All emotions aside: No, egrier, that is not at all what you read, or what happened. I RP'd with my cabal inductee (in a cabal with several other members) as the leader of the cabal. The member in question mentioned wanting to do something that would break cabal rules. It takes cabal points away from you if you do, so that alone should make it completely clear that it is against the rules. That was all. There was no threat of punishment, no bringing him up OOC to reprimand him, not even an IC lashing for letting his character's emotions get the best of him, instead of using the allied cabal for all they're worth and plotting some monumental betrayal (with the appropriate impromptu vote to break off ties before mercilessly slaughtering the whole cabal). None of that. If any of that was implied, it was done so incorrectly. If any of that was read between the lines, it was done so incorrectly. Immortals do not control cabal alliances. We do, however, try to keep people from circumventing rules. If a character wants to break an alliance, send a vote/poll. If the cabal is empty, the immortal will escalate any such poll as a vote, and the player in question can then vote as they please. That's not immortals controlling cabal alliances, that is the cabal system in place shouldering votes on Elders and Leaders for initiation. Like it's been for a long time, and will continue to be. Think logically, people, not emotionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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