What I've Noticed

[Izzy]

Okay so I have just come back from a long absence.  I've been in a few fights now with a couple of my characters.  Basically god suits and melle everywhere.

 

I love playing mages.  Its nearly impossible to withstand a few rounds anymore, so unless you are completely decked out, which most new players can't because most veterans own all the good stuff, or they just dont know where to get it.

Its so easy for these classes to get sanctuary there goes that advantage.....get decked out go get a glimmering staff......problem solved melle can now rape face.  70 hit 70 damn is nuts.......where has the balance gone.

 

Lands are filled with rangers, ninjas, druids (most beasts which makes them melle}

If I see a mage they are not on for long when someone decked out comes along.

 

I feel like the balance is gone.  Roll a melle character or die.

 

 

[mya]

Object 'necklaceh' is type armor, material bone.
Extra flags: none.
Weight is 2, value is 14, level is 20.
Armor class is 8 pierce, 8 bash, 8 slash, and 8 vs. magic.
Affects savingbreath by -8.
Affects savingspell by -2.
Affects damroll by 3.
Affects savingmaled by -8.
Rare item.

Wellcome to FL 2016.

[f0xx]

The power creep is real.

This necklace you showed is not even that bad.

[Gaunticles]

Sounds very complicated to fix, so I am attempting come up with ideas for change.

I believe the damage has to be toned down globally.

1. re-balance all equipment.

2. remove access to herbs, potions, scrolls,  such as shield, armor, flesh armor, stone skin, haste, missile defense, sanctuary etc... This will make classes that have them feel more useful.

3. re-balance mobs to re-consider the less damage and defense players will have.

 

This probably will not happen so someone come up with a easier and better idea?

[the_nightmare]

31 minutes ago, Gaunticles said:

Sounds very complicated to fix, so I am attempting come up with ideas for change.

I believe the damage has to be toned down globally.

1. re-balance all equipment.

2. remove access to herbs, potions, scrolls,  such as shield, armor, flesh armor, stone skin, haste, missile defense, sanctuary etc... This will make classes that have them feel more useful.

3. re-balance mobs to re-consider the less damage and defense players will have.

 

This probably will not happen so someone come up with a easier and better idea?

Here is my idea:

Kill Azarek , Viruthx or Trogir and then talk about mages being underpowered atm.

[Anume]

There are also ton of new mage eq pieces. Look around a bit or look at those mages who do very well now. You wouldn't have seen invokers with 1000 + hps 5 years ago either.

[Pali]

Not to be a contrarian, Anume, but 1k+ hp on invokers was certainly doable 5 or more years ago.  I had at least two faeries with more than that back then.

[Anume]

maybe, but it wasn't the norm and I've seen invokers with a lot more hp even AND good ac and good saves and a ton of mana. What I'm saying is that we also have a lot of very good mage eq in there now.

[Pali]

Yeah, that hp plus AC/saves wasn't really doable - needed to carry two sets to switch out hp for saves.  Wouldn't know about now - top tier eq isn't something I see often.

[Kyzarius]

The damage output from melee is really high.  But it is also combatable. 

The challenge right now is ninjas still need some toning imo.  

And you are right to point out how we also have an overabundance of feral beast master rangers.  

We need a brigade of fire giant warriors to clean them out.  Lol. 

[mya]

 With the new Ice polearm, I don't think so. FG non discord-clerics took a good power hit with that one.

But then again, now that bards get access to previously non exploitable vulns like mental damage weapons, I dislike vuln races. Cue in Doublesheet ninjas with two handed and auto-throw and one starts to get paranoid about them.

[sarcon]

What we need is an updated wiki to show all the new and updated items/equipment. I know this in itself is a monstrous task, but it would help sooooooooo much. I'm here and will help if needed. I have another 3 weeks off. Sometimes it feels like I'm in world war 3 with world war 2 weapons and tactics. If we can update the wiki and potentially beef up nonrare items, then we are in business. I'm not saying beef up every piece of armor either, maybe we can focus on a few specific body parts and have those items always around so you actually have a chance to fight before your max suited up. Right now it's pretty much pointless to fight anyone without tier 3 armor head to toe. What's that? You have 4 pieces of tier 3 armor and the rest Tier 2? Thinking you have a chance? Get two rounded son! 

[sarcon]

2 minutes ago, mya said:

 With the new Ice polearm, I don't think so.

Perfect example. What Ice polearm... please please.. update the wiki  

[mya]

I plan on playing a FG meele in a not so long future and with my meeles record..., so I think not Sarcon. Sorry. I'm sure someone will eventually tell you.

I totally need to stop opening my mouth about vuln weapons, like that ...

Lets talk about the new batch of avg 31 weapons ... frightening.

 

[mya]

10 hours ago, the_nightmare said:

Here is my idea:

Kill Azarek , Viruthx or Trogir and then talk about mages being underpowered atm.

Got any PK log of Azarek?

[the_nightmare]

21 minutes ago, mya said:

Got any PK log of Azarek?

Nope, I never log because I dont see the point of it.

[Lloth]

As a player, I am not sure fire giants of any variety are the best choice. There is always a race that does their classes better. Now, that's not to say they're weak at all. They are very consistently good, perhaps better on average across their classes, minus shaman, than other races that can be those same classes.  Being second best (almost) all the time is still very good. Adding the niche they fill as a fire damage powerhouse, I would say they are still quite good, despite the new weapon.

[mya]

3 hours ago, the_nightmare said:

Nope, I never log because I dont see the point of it.

I now log everything on main characters. Unless I forget to start the log at the start. But I always check it at the start or when jumped.

It's nice having all your character recorded play through. A shame my Zmud sucks, for timestamping logs and replaying at actual log speed.
The trouble is finding stuff.

This is how you know for sure that Berserk is beeing tweeked and not a figure of your imagination.

[Magick]

53 minutes ago, mya said:

A shame my Zmud sucks, for timestamping logs and replaying at actual log speed.

You can timestamp logs in Zmud using %time, but it's a bit of a pain.  Cmud can do it automatically now though, for what it's worth.  Sadly, there's nothing that can be done as far as simulating the chunks of information given by the MUD.  Just a set delay between lines.

[Tantangel]

Considering I've been back since late June/early July, I have been thinking about some of the changes myself that have come around since I last played. One of the big ones for me is that Ogres are still allowed to be Rangers and I'm sure that in D&D they do serve a purpose, but the fact that they're so survivable by being able to camouflage, heal massive amounts of HP every tick still, herb to heal for extra HP, also large amounts of consumables, it makes them really strong as is without the ability to herb. Now add in the fact that beastmaster was beefed up from when I last played so that you can paralyze someone via a horn, it makes them a far more viable class than a Warrior and they get pets. I wouldn't mind seeing each path getting sub skills so that people had to choose to get one good thing over the other such as if you go with Beastmaster, you can choose to either keep herb as a skill, or you can choose to go with paralyze. Little changes here and there probably would help in the long run, but that's the one that I noticed within my first few days playing again.

As far as Wiki ID's for armor and such, now that it's in control of Imms, perhaps it should be easier for them to update on there if they so choose to or as people are creating areas, keeping ID snippets to be fed into it so that you're doing it all at once and not having to take multiple steps to do something over and over again. I work retail, and nothing pisses me off more than someone doing something 5 times in one day or even a week, because that's a waste of time and at that point there's no such thing as 'time management'. I've had a few ID's of items since I've been back, and if I could, I'd put them on there myself simply because I was looking for them on there and couldn't find it so I just saved it to a notepad.

Balancing EQ could be done, but a full purge of all new areas after basically Avalon was put in would have to be removed and then updated versions of items that we have would take some time to put back into place. I see a lot of people with really good AC, saves, and hitroll/damroll. I still don't know how the hell they pull it off in some cases, as I've been able to have really good AC and decent saves, but shit hit/dam. Or really good hit/dam and really bad saves and AC. Then I see what people are wearing so I'll try and locate it and find out that they have the only one in existence which is unfortunate. This would be a huge undertaking to revamp, and possibly take quite some time without help and may not be considered feasible because of such.

Here's what I really do enjoy though since I've been back.

Constant updates to the game. I think this is probably the most updates I've seen ever rolling in all at once, and I like the fact that while updating classes they're still open to everyone to play and enjoy to figure them out. It means they're going to be tuned down faster, and any bugs be eliminated in a timely manner. Sure it sucks to be steamrolled by classes that everyone once thought as something else entirely (Bards), but I enjoy being able to see them in play still. I do enjoy the multi-tiered PK as it does help ease people into it if they're coming into the game without prior experience. And the fact that there's so many new unrare items that benefit them is great. But I do have a suggestion to have this slightly tweaked too. Not because it's needed, but because I think they should have their own flag that specifically only allows lower tiered PK characters to touch them and not higher tiered ones.

I think this game has come a long ways since I began playing, and Imms do listen to the players when they have legitimate ideas which is great. I wish that some of the console games I play had this many dedicated people to making players lives amazing as this game has.

[Ambroas]

I think the difference is that a majority of the playerbase is melee so of course you're going to see the effect of the melee class more.  Also high hit/dam is more visible in combat when they hit you more and deal more damage, high saves is visible when someone resists a spell way too many times.  It's a bit hard to see the effect of 100-150 more hp or more -ac on a mage especially if the melee is decked and is blasting through both of them.  Not saying that the mage equipment is useless or wrong because I don't even know what it is, just saying why people may not be noticing it when fighting a mage.

Ogre beastmaster is imo not better than a warrior.  Maybe I'm wrong but I'll give the reasons I think so:

1) That paralyze isn't controllable so you can't depend on it to happen when you need it.
2) You loose the ability if you flee, if they summon the pet, if you get strangled and they kill it etc...
3) On Gug I'd have many duels where I couldn't rely on the pet. Invokers and Druids would blast it, others would summon it, Melee people would aim for it and kill it pretty quick.  Most skilled people found ways to disable it the only people I found that I had a real advantage over were monks/blademasters.  Maybe this is due to my own noobness though, I'd much rather have a for sure method that I can depend on.

[Tantangel]

The reason why I say Ogre Ranger > Ogre Warrior is that you can get far more damage output than from a Warrior with your pets and getting dressed in armor to up hit/dam you're basically a Warrior on steroids. I am awful when it comes to PK, ESPECIALLY now. But when I had mine years ago, I was dressed up as a Warrior and held my own and then some in most cases. A Warrior can get paralyze via mantis maul, which can be unreliable as well, but both can get weapons that can cause the paralyze affect too, so even if your pet is killed, you still have that chance, but you also still have two other pets if the one gets killed.

Sure you don't get the sweet tracking skills and shield throw, but if you're fast you'll never really use tracking, and throwing a shield means you have a chance to have the shield sacrificed if it doesn't hit them. Having ~1300 HP and possibly more, and 3 pets, you have the chance to flee/return, especially when they're blinded, and they're fighting your pet. Sure area affected spells will still hit you, but you usually don't need to worry too much if your damage output is high, because even if they do kill your pets, you can just flee, herb, quaff a certain potion to heal yourself massively and catch a tick, you're looking at possibly around ~500-600 hp all at once (obviously this is more of a if the planets align perfectly situation), you're ready to come back and finish the fight. Sure if they have ~1000 HP, you may still risk getting killed, but you can also call another pet and hope they soak up a little damage giving you that much of an edge. Add in bark skin, which I don't believe Warriors would have access to even with consumables, you're going to have the AC advantage more so than with the Warrior.

I do see that it can go their way versus your own, but I can see it going your way far more often depending on who your opponent is and their skills with the character. Obviously there's always going to be classes you'll have a harder time against than others. I just believe that Werebeasts should be the only ones who can choose Beastmaster as a path since they've got the innate ability to be one with nature. It's my opinion based on my experience from forever ago though, and I could be dead wrong now considering I haven't played one since September 2007, but back then they were the beasts of Rangers and it seems like they pretty much are still, but rather than trackers, they've all become beastmasters since the change to them.

[Izzy]

21 hours ago, the_nightmare said:

Here is my idea:

Kill Azarek , Viruthx or Trogir and then talk about mages being underpowered atm.

 

Funny warmaster owns the lands.

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, Tantangel said:

Considering I've been back since late June/early July, I have been thinking about some of the changes myself that have come around since I last played. One of the big ones for me is that Ogres are still allowed to be Rangers and I'm sure that in D&D they do serve a purpose, but the fact that they're so survivable by being able to camouflage, heal massive amounts of HP every tick still, herb to heal for extra HP, also large amounts of consumables, it makes them really strong as is without the ability to herb. Now add in the fact that beastmaster was beefed up from when I last played so that you can paralyze someone via a horn, it makes them a far more viable class than a Warrior and they get pets. I wouldn't mind seeing each path getting sub skills so that people had to choose to get one good thing over the other such as if you go with Beastmaster, you can choose to either keep herb as a skill, or you can choose to go with paralyze. Little changes here and there probably would help in the long run, but that's the one that I noticed within my first few days playing again.

As far as Wiki ID's for armor and such, now that it's in control of Imms, perhaps it should be easier for them to update on there if they so choose to or as people are creating areas, keeping ID snippets to be fed into it so that you're doing it all at once and not having to take multiple steps to do something over and over again. I work retail, and nothing pisses me off more than someone doing something 5 times in one day or even a week, because that's a waste of time and at that point there's no such thing as 'time management'. I've had a few ID's of items since I've been back, and if I could, I'd put them on there myself simply because I was looking for them on there and couldn't find it so I just saved it to a notepad.

Balancing EQ could be done, but a full purge of all new areas after basically Avalon was put in would have to be removed and then updated versions of items that we have would take some time to put back into place. I see a lot of people with really good AC, saves, and hitroll/damroll. I still don't know how the hell they pull it off in some cases, as I've been able to have really good AC and decent saves, but shit hit/dam. Or really good hit/dam and really bad saves and AC. Then I see what people are wearing so I'll try and locate it and find out that they have the only one in existence which is unfortunate. This would be a huge undertaking to revamp, and possibly take quite some time without help and may not be considered feasible because of such.

Here's what I really do enjoy though since I've been back.

Constant updates to the game. I think this is probably the most updates I've seen ever rolling in all at once, and I like the fact that while updating classes they're still open to everyone to play and enjoy to figure them out. It means they're going to be tuned down faster, and any bugs be eliminated in a timely manner. Sure it sucks to be steamrolled by classes that everyone once thought as something else entirely (Bards), but I enjoy being able to see them in play still. I do enjoy the multi-tiered PK as it does help ease people into it if they're coming into the game without prior experience. And the fact that there's so many new unrare items that benefit them is great. But I do have a suggestion to have this slightly tweaked too. Not because it's needed, but because I think they should have their own flag that specifically only allows lower tiered PK characters to touch them and not higher tiered ones.

I think this game has come a long ways since I began playing, and Imms do listen to the players when they have legitimate ideas which is great. I wish that some of the console games I play had this many dedicated people to making players lives amazing as this game has.

 

Great post!

[Izzy]

On 10/11/2016 at 7:48 PM, mya said:

Object 'necklaceh' is type armor, material bone.
Extra flags: none.
Weight is 2, value is 14, level is 20.
Armor class is 8 pierce, 8 bash, 8 slash, and 8 vs. magic.
Affects savingbreath by -8.
Affects savingspell by -2.
Affects damroll by 3.
Affects savingmaled by -8.
Rare item.

Wellcome to FL 2016.

 

It used to be you protected from saves.......or you got hit dam....this was a choice.  Now its both.  Not balance.