What I've Noticed

[sarcon]

Here is my question. All the melee's have access to armor, consumables and who knows what else to protect themselves from spells, weakness, vulns etc.. Where is the potion, pills or scroll that helps mages against skills like fury, headbutt and whatever else that can disrupt their spells? 

If a feral can wear an ash cloak, why can't there be a piece of armor or potion that helps a mage keep their concentrations against a feral? Perhaps a potion of divine focus? 

 

[Fool_Hardy]

Seems there is a very easy fix to this "issue".

Lets admit it is not an issue first.

Then we can begin to communicate and resign to the proper answer.

Those who know how and where to get these magnificent pieces need to be sharing the information. At least your IG protoges.

This will ensure continued player advancement and provide important information for the future stability of your clans.

To do otherwise is to live in the dark ages of this MUD, when we kept every secret to ourselves.

Lets fix this, we can.

Even the immortal leaders could suggest areas their members might want to search if they are wearing weak equipment.

Just my 2 cents.

[f0xx]

The thing is, there is only one cloak available and you have to sacrifice an EQ spot to wear it. Mages on the other hand DO have a pretty reliable way to defend with all those skill you mentioned, including dirt.

[Pali]

11 minutes ago, f0xx said:

The thing is, there is only one cloak available and you have to sacrifice an EQ spot to wear it. Mages on the other hand DO have a pretty reliable way to defend with all those skill you mentioned, including dirt.

And that would be...?  I'm fairly certain the answer is AC, but if there's a way to do it and people clearly don't know it, why tell them the way's there but not tell them what it is?

[sarcon]

I tell you what. I've been in sales for almost 15+ years and trained thousands of people. I promise you I never withheld information that will help people be successful. Instead, what I do is give away all the secrets and see what people do with it. 70% of the people I train don't know how to leverage the information and wither away while 30% actually utilize it. You know what I notice overall when this happens? The 30% push everyone to be better and increases overall standards across the board. I'm not saying give 100% of all the secrets away because obviously the immortals and staff prefer to keep things in the dark, what I am saying is let's try and put 80% of the mechanics and equipment open to the public. What will happen will astonish you. People will play more often and you'll attract a much larger player base vs a handful of people knowing all the secrets and those who don't dwindle away in frustration. On a personal level I've been putting in so many hours searching, learning and trying to understand the new dynamics of the game.... I'm almost at my end. The wiki has been my bread and butter but the fact that it's so outdated I'm almost about to call it quits. Not knowing mechanics and all the little things that can make a massive difference is quite defeating. 

[Anume]

If you guys added that this necklace is from the highest level lockboxes and very very hard to get, it would be a bit fairer.

Yes, some lockbox items are very good. But let's see how long it takes you to get this one specific necklace if you are looking for it.

[FatMike]

What is interesting to me is the high level of interest in learning more and getting better. Here's a couple of thoughts that might help. Get the ID spell from astral plane for your warrior/ranger(mob killing survival class) and if you see someone wearing a strange piece of eq, ask to see it. Then lore it. Now you know stats and location. The cabal stuff, sure give it to T on HM day and let peeps experiment. The qthing stuff, I don't really know it would be nice to play one but I don't know if personally I want it given to me. 

[FatMike]

To go further. Someone who knows how to make a poll that has votes please make one so we can see the general consensus. 

[Magick]

Create a new topic -> poll tab -> fill in the blanks.  It's fairly straight forward.

[FatMike]

16 minutes ago, Magick said:

Create a new topic -> poll tab -> fill in the blanks.  It's fairly straight forward.

Well if it's that damn easy I'll just do it myself

[Magick]

That's the spirit!

[f0xx]

6 hours ago, Pali said:

And that would be...?  I'm fairly certain the answer is AC, but if there's a way to do it and people clearly don't know it, why tell them the way's there but not tell them what it is?

AC of course. The answer is so obvious that I felt I didn't need to provide it. Melees can obtain more hit/dam nowadays without sacrificing too many saves, but so can mages obtain more AC, HP and saves. The general power creep is what worries me. We are not introducing more tactics, but higher stats.

[Pali]

3 minutes ago, f0xx said:

AC of course. The answer is so obvious that I felt I didn't need to provide it.

It's obvious to you, and I guessed it correctly, because we've both been around a long time and know the game well enough to figure this stuff out fairly intuitively.  But since the question needed to be posed in the first place, by another who's been here for some time (Sarcon), the unconscious assumption that this kind of thing is obvious by many of us may be part of the problem - we simply don't even realize in the first place that this kind of thing should have some explanation for those who aren't as familiar with the game as we are.

[Magick]

Slashing, specifically.

[Kyzarius]

Honestly though I have played mages now for a few months.  I run usually -450 to -600 AC.  

I still have to use every trick in the book to avoid being just melted.  I take 200 - 300 hp a round from some melee's. 

By the time you get a single spell in you've lost almost half of your hp. 

Only by taking cabal paths that reduce incoming damage have I been able to stand even in the same room with Melee's in significantly inferior gear.

It is ridiculous IMO.  There needs to be a defensive stat, like saves, that lets you improve your parry / shield block.  And before you say it I have ran both with + parry and + shield block.  Getting hit 4 - 5 times a round with 105% parry and a shield is just asinine. 

No matter how much AC or HP you manage to stack.  If all they have to do is be engaged with you to land 100+ hp a round then it is unbalanced.  This is without blind even being used. 

 

and BTW, viruthx is a bad example.  Mysterum with chronoshield to reduce damage? MELEE pets for output? think about it.  IT is a mage masquerading around as a melee. 

[Mmm Coffee]

Coming from someone who, historically, has played C/C's almost exclusively, the biggest nerf they received was reducing their parry max to 105.  That made no sense to me.  It's not particularly easy to do with a mage so I think that is one thing that needs to be looked at.  If you can get 109-110 parry, you can become viable.  I've never had a particular issue on any of my toons over the past few years.  I did quite well with Othrynus, Sonnael, Grezath...maybe not squashing the pbase but certainly toe-to-toe and even defeating some of the best.  I'd like to think if I were able to play today, I'd still do well.  However, I think the 105 parry cap is a gaping hole considering what I've seen in Hit/Dam from some of these newer PK logs.  70/70 on a feral ninja?  Seriously WTF.

[Anume]

Keep in mind that hr dr has diminishing returns. The first already hits at 25. The next, more serious diminishing returns hits at 50. 60 or 70 hr dr will not really make much of a difference.

That aside, we're not done balancing ninjas yet. Mash. Trance HR bonus has already been reduced, other boni have been deleted completely. The more logs we get the easier it is to balance the class.

[Fool_Hardy]

This is good. We can see that there remains a lack of transparency at least.

The problem appears to stem from the if everyone knows how to get decked I will no longer be the best mentality.

I can not believe I would need to point this out to the intelligent community I choose to spend my free time with but...

Even if I have the BEST equipment in the game, H&R or LA will roll over me like a speed bump.

There is more to the fight than just having the best equipment, but this is the problem.

As the numbers grow for defenses, saves, and H/D rolls, there is no modification to the output of now outclassed spells.

I remember when certain mage/cleric spells were feared outright, before people learned to get saves.

Now its melee output, and people struggling to get AC.

Seems that if Aabahran were a real world, real people would seek real solutions.

Such as a spells that hinder this gross output of damage, a stacking spell that decreases accuracy or damage.

Perhaps a stacking spell that decreases saves against certain spells types.

Perhaps a spell that makes your opponent allergic to herbs, too nervous to quaf a potion, or to afraid to hold a rod/staff/wand.

If we teach each other what equipment to wear and where it comes from, we will still need to invent other avenues for success.

[mya]

6 hours ago, f0xx said:

AC of course. The answer is so obvious that I felt I didn't need to provide it. Melees can obtain more hit/dam nowadays without sacrificing too many saves, but so can mages obtain more AC, HP and saves. The general power creep is what worries me. We are not introducing more tactics, but higher stats.

It's not AC.  It wasn't AC, and if Morl changed so that AC affects dirt land rate I'm not experiencing it. What I experience is taking the right decisions to improve the modifiers that increase a chance of a miss. This is the only thing I have seen that has an impact on dirt landing rates. And if you are fighting my mages you will be seeing a lowered dirt landing rate.
Not to say getting AC is not a good thing. It's a great thing. Just find a hard hitting mob and get hit with your AC and without it and you can notice the AC reduction.

 

14 hours ago, sarcon said:

Here is my question. All the melee's have access to armor, consumables and who knows what else to protect themselves from spells, weakness, vulns etc.. Where is the potion, pills or scroll that helps mages against skills like fury, headbutt and whatever else that can disrupt their spells? 

If a feral can wear an ash cloak, why can't there be a piece of armor or potion that helps a mage keep their concentrations against a feral? Perhaps a potion of divine focus? 

 

 

I think Sarcon is right on this. I can't understand how the race with the most offensive meele potential has a vuln covering EQ, while there is no way to cover fury which cuts your casting by 50%. In comparison a normal resistance only cuts 33% of incoming damage,  while using fury cuts the damage the feral takes from spells by 50%.

Imagine a feral fights a invoker. As a simplification the Invoker spam fireball, feral uses fury and fireball only deals 100 fire damage.
The invoker would be doing 100 damage base, 150 pos vul, and 75 pos vuln and fury.
Lets use now a magic resist Dwarf getting firebaled (and dwaves don't get furry).
The invoker would be doing 100 damage base, 66 pos magic resistence.
Now the same Feral with the vuln negating gear (or a non fire based spell).
Invoker would be making 100 damage base, 100 not affected by vuln, and 50 pos fury.

[Anume]

the feral is also non-giant sized, has less hp and less regen than the ogre

a well played invoker will dominate an ogre

a well played feral will give an invoker a hard time

I see no problem with this.

[Izzy]

5 hours ago, Kyzarius said:

Honestly though I have played mages now for a few months.  I run usually -450 to -600 AC.  

I still have to use every trick in the book to avoid being just melted.  I take 200 - 300 hp a round from some melee's. 

By the time you get a single spell in you've lost almost half of your hp. 

Only by taking cabal paths that reduce incoming damage have I been able to stand even in the same room with Melee's in significantly inferior gear.

It is ridiculous IMO.  There needs to be a defensive stat, like saves, that lets you improve your parry / shield block.  And before you say it I have ran both with + parry and + shield block.  Getting hit 4 - 5 times a round with 105% parry and a shield is just asinine. 

No matter how much AC or HP you manage to stack.  If all they have to do is be engaged with you to land 100+ hp a round then it is unbalanced.  This is without blind even being used. 

 

and BTW, viruthx is a bad example.  Mysterum with chronoshield to reduce damage? MELEE pets for output? think about it.  IT is a mage masquerading around as a melee. 

 

Finally someone tells the truth!  I dont want to have to spend 30 hours gaining red and white staffs....stone skin........missile scrolls.......golden flowers.........and whatever else get melted in 2 rounds use most of it then only to have to do it all over again.  Its madness.  Playing a mage well is not easy.

 

 

[FatMike]

3 minutes ago, crackala said:

Finally someone tells the truth!  I dont want to have to spend 30 hours gaining red and white staffs....stone skin........missile scrolls.......golden flowers.........and whatever else get melted in 2 rounds use most of it then only to have to do it all over again.  Its madness.  Playing a mage well is not easy.

 

 

Playing a melee isn't easy either. You still have to collect and hoard consumables like crazy.

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, FatMike said:

Playing a melee isn't easy either. You still have to collect and hoard consumables like crazy.

I do understand this, but it seems like they have a much easier time.

 

Lets not forget to mention fleeing and murder rounds.

 

Why dont mages have something equivelent?

 

[Anume]

wimpy...

no, don't let us start this discussion all over again please!! 

[Kyzarius]

 

 

Just now, Anume said:

wimpy...

no, don't let us start this discussion all over again please!! 

hahaha