Lloth's Community Corner

[Lloth]

Most favorite: the RP. It's why I agreed to be an immortal, and it is what keeps me going up in inmland. 

Runner up: creating plasma beast invasions.

Least favorite: actually having a job to do.... Jk

[Magick]

1 hour ago, Lloth said:

Runner up: creating plasma beast invasions.

 

Swine-splosions are better still.

[Pali]

New question: What was your favorite moment of just messing with a PC as an IMM?  I want to know about the time you led someone on some long journey only to have them end up getting farted on or something.  

[Tempirion]

Forget who it was but in a nut shell his RP was about finding his sister.  A long drawn out session where she appeared only to have the pitlord snatch her and run off after a short battle.  The quest sent them on a long battle through to liberate his sister from the pit Lord in his area (not a fun fight through all the demons).  When they finally kill him and go to save his kin only to watch her death.  I chuckled, they cried, it was a good time ?

[Magick]

37 minutes ago, Tempirion said:

Forget who it was but in a nut shell his RP was about finding his sister.

Might have been Aeron.

[Lloth]

I have three, because I can't decide.

First was when I popped in on Ashuga, abucted him, and forced him to watch me torture Naruthiron before taking him deep into the abyss and burying my hand in his chest and corrupting his flesh. He prayed to Erelei, who showed up, rescued Ashuga, and beheaded me, only to find that it was a fake. It turned into a doll (nod to my shaman upbringing), and dissolved. Ashuga got away, but is now incredibly afraid of Lloth, Erelei got to be a real big pain in the neck (heh heh), and I didn't die. So all good. It was short, but Ashuga RPed flawlessly, and it really helped establish that Lloth may not be the strongest immortal, but she plans very far ahead, and takes every possibility into account.


Second is when I brought up Azarek (he wasn't named Azarek back then). He was an avatar wannabe, and I did a long, carefully executed corruption RP. He tested every avenue of escape, every way of turning the conversation against me, and when he couldn't find it, he let the words sink in. I was eventually able to convince him that just because I am a demon, does not mean that I want the same things the other demons before me wanted. I offered him a deal - I would give him the power to take down the demon, including those as strong as Volgathras' lieutennants. In exchange, I would take his soul. One soul to save countless others. After a long deliberation, he agreed and surrendered, thus, Azarek was born. Cydare stumbled upon the ritual and tried to stop it, only to be defeated, and got to watch as one of her hopefuls was turned into an instrument of mine. Azarek became an empty shell, a body without a soul of his own. In order to sustain himself, he needed to devour souls to temporarily fill that void. He became a Githyanki (soul-suck), and was outcast neutral (he accepted a deal from Lloth as a purity-follower, so outcast - but he took the deal to help others, so not evil). I forget what religion he took up, but he lost all prior memories, so he knew only Lloth when the ritual was completed, and I was happy to guide him to destroy my enemies and pave my way to overthrowing Volgathras.

Third is probably the series of events with Belderon/Winston that occurred after I stabbed Zoichan in the heart during the Ofcol update, as revenge for some actions taken when we were mortals. I gave Belderon a way to restore Zoichan in the form of a black heart. I claimed it powerful enough to restore anyone, alive or dead, to life - and even stronger than they were before. Belderon (of course) never trusted me, so he never used it, but instead held onto it so that nobody else could. Winston, having lost his daughter, began to eye it, and over time became obsessed with it and eventually stole it and used it on Elizabeth. I got to play the new Elizabeth a few times, who came to haunt Belderon on Winston a few times. Trick took it and ran with it while I was unable to log in (sorry again dude), and Elizabeth began to drain the life from Winston and his wife. Belderon began to notice, and the rest... is readable in Belderon's graveyard topic.

[f0xx]

I envy you for being able to take part in those awesome RP story lines

[Lloth]

What do you, as players, consider to be good character RP? 

[f0xx]

Do you mean when it comes to IMM RP or other mortal characters' RP?

[hotspring monkey]

14 minutes ago, Lloth said:

What do you, as players, consider to be good character RP? 

Good character RP is believable, makes the char feel alive. And it doesn't feel like Diane Choksondik when they ram their copypasta agenda down your throat - while not reacting to anything you say back at them.

[Quicksilver]

I tend to not enjoy formalized RP between players (i.e. introductions and imposed RP on others).  I do however, find the RP from characters growing and conflicting together fascinating.  I.e. earlier this year I was in WMs when Knights were their biggest vendetta.  Most WMs were for the war, one mino was avidly against it.  Lots of internal disagreements and fighting.  The Knights were pushing for peace and yet were still fighting.  There were people trying to make peace but their own side was inadvertently making it worse.  All of it made for this whole muddled and tricky situation.  Tons of fun.

[Lloth]

1 hour ago, f0xx said:

Do you mean when it comes to IMM RP or other mortal characters' RP?

I was more asking for mortal, but you can input your thoughts on IMM RP too. 

Basically, what I want to know is what the community sees as good RP. What standards all of you keep. That way, I can help get a better understanding of what level players expect, and adjust my rewarding scheme (not every immortal will agree on this approach, so this will really only apply to rewards I issue) to better reward people that go above and beyond, and better temper those that are not going very deep into development.

I would also love to hear from anyone that can be agreed upon by consensus as a good RPer who would like to assist me in expanding our RP section of the essays.

[Kyzarius]

Good original stuff.  Nice back story.  RP that is dynamic and adapts and grows with those around you.  

Running around saying derr I like to kill people that is why I kill youuuuu is annoying and really a weak contribution to the game. 

[Magick]

10 minutes ago, Lloth said:

Basically, what I want to know is what the community sees as good RP. What standards all of you keep. That way, I can help get a better understanding of what level players expect, and adjust my rewarding scheme (not every immortal will agree on this approach, so this will really only apply to rewards I issue) to better reward people that go above and beyond, and better temper those that are not going very deep into development.

I'm torn.

On the one hand, I'd recommend not adjusting your RP rewards based on what level we expect.  I mean, if we going to be graded on a curve as it were, then it would be in our best interest to set the bar low.  Not so low as to not be believable, but low nonetheless.  And then of course, there'd be that asshat that comes along that didn't get the memo and proverbially studies their ass off and manages a 96%.  Of course, I hope that people are honest in their assessments.  Even if they were, psychologically, we're inclined to either overestimate or underestimate our own abilities.  But that's a whole 'nother story.
Instead taking your own notes of various players RP skills and abilities and doling out the points appropriately.  Bigger rewards for those people who push themselves continually or make noticeable effort or progress.  Or just setting your own bar and going from there.  Give people a standard to strive for.  Bonuses and penalties notwithstanding, of course.  The down side to that is that we'd indirectly be asking you to put in yet more work on top of what you're already doing.

And yet on the other hand, should people be honest, I believe that an adjustment could help people stretch their horizons.

 

31 minutes ago, Lloth said:

I was more asking for mortal, but you can input your thoughts on IMM RP too. 
...
I would also love to hear from anyone that can be agreed upon by consensus as a good RPer who would like to assist me in expanding our RP section of the essays.

A long time ago, I thought I was a decent RP'er.  But Irpel humbled me completely and thus the standard was set for me.  I still to this day, look at that tome I submitted in haste and the follow up from Irpel and lament.  So help expanding the RP section, Acele should be your first port of call.

[Kyzarius]

As far as rewards are concerned I think know hey should be 2x what they are now.  But I also think time required for ranks should be 1/2 current with automated to T not V.  

It's a game, games should reward you. 

[Lloth]

The issue I see with that, Kyz, is that we already get people that submit like 20 journals that are 2 paragraphs, maybe, in rapid succession. If we doubled what we normally give for that, you'd have people with edges before 50 that never once spoke to another character. That's the opposite of what the RP system was designed to do.

[Kyzarius]

Double the totals but cap one award a day per source.  So one reward for a journal, one for a note.  Unlimited for interactions with characters or imms.  But double the amount.  That way people like me who put in one a day don't get 3 rp, while those that think journals should be a farm can't abuse it. 

AND please oh please can we have some expeditious cabal promos to T.  5 hours a rank, all the way to T.  Maybe add a secondary requirement to thw other cabals like how WM is with challenges. 

[Kyzarius]

Err double post.

 

[Lloth]

Not going to open the promo to T can of worms. 

Limiting journals to one per day, while still doubling the RP we give, doesn't actually solve the problem. It means that, sure, those characters won't get 3 edges in a week. But they will still get them with little to no engaging RP. Personally, when I notice that a character is really only RPed with journals, I reward gradually less and less RP until there's more done externally. You guys blew up on me enough when I gave Azarek something nice... Don't need more accusations of favoritism (I previously permanently banned a good friend of mine - seriously, there's zero favoritism going on, and it's disheartening to be accused of it) when the playerbase sees characters with a ton of edges or RP rewards or whatever, without the visible RP to back it up. At least with how we have it now, those characters tend to burn out before they get to abuse the journal system too much.

My reward scheme is based on content first, immersion second, medium third. I reward more for live RP or logs with other players, then I look at how immersed the player was in the RP. If I can tell who a player is by their personality, I give less (unless that happens to be the character, but that's a careful line with a case-by-case judgement call). If the character shines through on its own merit, with a thoughtful approach, then I give more. That's not to say that characters with a better vocabulary or more pronounced movements get more RP - again, it has to be true to the character. Finally, I look at the medium presented. I reward the least for journals. They are internal, and thus offer the least development to the MUD as a whole. I reward notes a little more, provided they actually have recipients other than immortal (seriously, I have seen people do this to try and bypass journal bias). Logs and live-RP get more (quite a bit more if done in the same room), as they show the actual developments in ways that notes and journals really can't.

I think my statistical average hovers somewhere around 8-10 for journals, 10-12 for notes, and 15-20 for logs/live. 

History, of course, rewards differently. I reward RP for history based on content, complexity, and narration. Most I have rewarded are about 15-18, though some have wow'd me into the 20s.

[Zavero]

What do you mean abusing journals?

[Kyzarius]

15 to 20 on a log????

Can you fire whose been rewarding my main, and you do it?

I think I just got 3 for a log someone submitted.  Most I ever get is 8 for anything. 

Same with histories...I get like 8 to 10.

Maybe if everyone rewarded on your standard...geesh.  I wondered how some folks seem to get RP necklaces so fast.

You guys need a schedule of values for this stuff.   

[Kyzarius]

This issue imo is the same with promotions to T.  Just a different "currency". 

Some of you give out big rewards, others bread crumbs.  Some of you promote super fast, others seem to think we like waiting around in limbo.  

Then if we mess up RP wise it's nearly instantaneous consequence.  HUGE RP point loss.  Or a swift demotion.  CP penalties within a day, while it took you 2 weeks to reach T. 

Sorry if I seem like I am ranting.  This is just a hot button for me. 

 

[Lloth]

Well, to be fair, my numbers are largely based on a great standard (not saying that you don't meet those standards, just making it clear that people shouldn't -expect- that much). For instance, if your history is great, but your purpose and personality are lacking (or worse, not even filled out), you're not getting as much RP as above. If your journals are just a rehash of a log that's already been awarded, I'm liable to dock points  Also, short logs get less points. When I say 15-20 for a good log, I am talking along the lines of a log that would be posted in the RP Log section.

I honestly don't do many rewards anymore. I just don't have the time. A thousand miles from home getting 4 years of information crammed into my head in just shy of 5 months. Doesn't leave much time. Luckily, we have a great cadre of newer immortals, and from what I have seen, they do a great job of properly rewarding people. I've seen more dragons given out lately, more bonus RP for descriptions, etc. If you feel like you're getting short changed, feel free to post it on prayer and the awarding immortal can give a breakdown of why they rewarded like they did.

The problem with trying to standardize rewards is that there are just too many variables to dynamic input. It's really the argument I was hoping to bring to the table here. 

What constitutes good RP?

[Pali]

Good RP I think boils down to two things in the end: consistency and growth.  Originality helps a great deal, but it's not necessary for a character to have excellent RP - and I think if you can maintain consistency and growth in a single character, originality will take care of itself because no characters have the exact same experiences.

 

Consistency: A character should not radically change simply on the whim of the player - rather, they should have a distinct personality, with goals and desires that come out of that personality.  Their background should be something that would organically lead them to being who they are today, or at least who they were when the character was first created.  Ideally, this should be somewhat original - we've all seen uncountable "my parents were killed by x" backgrounds, and at this point they are quite frankly boring, though they can be redeemed by a new take on such a background ("my parents were killed by x, so I kill x" is all-too-common; "my parents were killed by x, so x terrifies me and I avoid it at all costs" is not something I think I've ever seen).  Regardless, if I chat with you today and chat with you tomorrow, you shouldn't feel like a different person tomorrow unless something drastic has happened to you in the time between our conversations.  Insane characters or those with multiple personalities aren't excused from this: your behavior should still stem from your psychoses in a believable manner.  Think of the Joker in The Dark Knight - he was certainly insane by most measures, but he had a consistent worldview and style of behavior.  His physical mannerisms, his way of speaking, his lack of concern regarding all lives including his own were all consistent aspects of him that would've made him instantly recognizable even without the makeup/scars.

 

Growth: A character shouldn't radically change on the whims of the player, but it SHOULD change as events in-game have an impact on that character, and should do so in a manner consistent with that character.  One way this can be done and something I'm trying to do better with is keeping track of my characters' age, and RPing it appropriately - while for very long-lived species like elves or illithids this is less of a consideration, for a human, halfling or giant a character's lifespan might actually encompass an actual person's lifespan within the world, and the character's maturity level and perspective can change simply as they get older and less driven by hormones.  Of course, the best growth isn't simple background growth like that, but having your character be truly changed by in-game events that should change you.  Unless you're playing a maniac, your character's perception of themselves and their lives should reflect what has happened to them in-game.  Say you're playing a neutral mage who is thinking about joining the Savants, and then a demon necro Savant comes by and slaughters you for your soul without a word: your intent to join the Savants should be re-examined after this event, and whether it deters you because a Savant is an evil murderous dick or encourages you because look how much power a Savant can wield, it should have an impact on how your character views the Savants rather than just being shrugged off.

 

Edit: Something that I think helps show off good RP but absolutely isn't necessary for it: custom emotes.  They are a fantastic tool, one I enjoy more and more the better I get at using them, but the basic emote commands do a fine job of covering most of the spectrum - using them doesn't mean you're doing a worse job RPing your character than someone who uses custom emotes.  In some ways they can even be a hindrance, as they take more time to think of, more time to type, and using them too often might even throw off the flow of the interaction if you're constantly pausing in the middle of a conversation to type out "emote walks around in circles while he says".  A good way to use them is to think of them as setting the scene - at the beginning of a conversation, emote that you're pacing around while you talk, and just use says for what you're saying until you have another specific reaction to present: you stop pacing in surprise at something they said, you trip on something because you're not paying attention to where you're walking, etc.

[f0xx]

RP, when it comes to morts, should be, as someone put it, believable and fluid. It shouldn't be forced onto others and it shouldn't be static. It sometimes feels as some characters are trying to deepthroat me with their RP.

When it comes to rewards.... I find it strange that for an hour of hunting, taking two people from their 40th rank to their 50th rank can net you 20 RP, yet an hour long log of quality and most importantly *spontaneous* RP will get you nowhere near that. Face to face RP should be best rewarded, because that after all, is the "visible" RP.