Not listening anymore.

[Izzy]

I dont care what anyone says anymore.  Playing a mage is near impossible.  The amount of damage that gets dealt to you and the amount of damage you can put out just doesnt compare.  Trying to land a dispel is nearly impossible.  Yet as a mage you can be disarmed air thrashed trip lock.......You can be haymakered.....there is nothing to defend against all these.  I can try to cast three dispels and be nearly dead.  I dont care what anyone says.  Way to much damage to mitigate.

[Gaunticles]

I kind of relate to this but that because I usually play only mages.

I feel like to win as mage you need to align the stars and moons, check your sexton, and use your tricks to win. 

I feel if your a warrior you get the gear and you steam roll, if it's not working flee and try again.

[Izzy]

I want to add, I can dispel sometimes.......the minute I do........they smoke a leaf....sanc again......its just to easy to be a melle and nearly impossible to be a mage.  I dont care.  I have one mage that does really well and thats because he can outdamage anyone.  most of the time then he has to run because a thousand hearts are eaten.....herbed.......you name it melles can do it.

[sarcon]

Back in the day I was able to be a cleric and have a lot of fun. I even played a battlemage and did very well. However, yes I would have to agree ever since my returned I tried a battlemage and found it a lot harder than before. I played a cleric and pretty much shelved them because the output from melee's was pretty nuts, even doing the heal dance. Though, there are still a few other cleric combos I wish to try. I tried the necromancer and ya, no thanks. If I land a sleep I can eat you up, but if you don't sleep I get eaten pretty bad. I almost feel like we've just done a massive shift over the years. Once upon a time clerics owned the lands. Literally, you roll up a drow cleric and can own the player base. Now it seems all you need is a Warrior, Ninja, Thief, Crusader or Ranger and can wreck havoc. I think we just need to revamp consumables that are geared towards mages. That might help balance things out. 

[Pali]

27 minutes ago, Gaunticles said:

I kind of relate to this but that because I usually play only mages.

I feel like to win as mage you need to align the stars and moons, check your sexton, and use your tricks to win. 

I feel if your a warrior you get the gear and you steam roll, if it's not working flee and try again.

Yeah, know that feeling as well.

[Izzy]

Its clearly the armor.  If i cant land a dispel.  Yet you can punish me......this is the problem.  Its nuts.  Haymaker should not land on first attempt.  What are my saves vs this.....what are my saves vs dirt kick......ac....I have 650 ac on my toon....does nothing.....where are my protections........Im confused.  Why can you protect agains me......yet I cant protect agains you......A spell says Protective.......Maeladictive.....Mental.....Afflictive.......  Whats a dirt kick?  Whats a Haymaker?  Whats a Trap?  Why cant I protect against these like they can protect against me?

 

If we are talking balance....then balance it so I can play a mage and dont have to just run for my damn life.  If im wrong then im wrong.

 

Give me a way to just blind flee...murder round......oh you have pets....even worse.

[Ambroas]

I think the issue is the ease of getting saves, hit/dam and consumables.  With the Merchant cabal which can grow herbs why don't we lower the speed that herbs grow in the wild or do something to make them more rare.  Also with consumables we need to limit what people can use at a time perhaps through an overdose system.  Dispel magic is just not effective now since they can smoke a herb in combat and be ready to stop that big damage spell you can't land while not loosing any of their offense.  With the stats they can get melee doesn't need haste, stone skin, armor, shield or anything of that nature and against some mages they don't want -ac anyways so just reapply sanc and there ya go.

So: Herbs shouldn't be able to be used in combat neither should vials/potions. 
Consumables need either a slower respawn time or to be weakened in their active time. 
People need a limit on how many they can use, an effective way could be to limit herbs within a time frame.  If they use too many in a short amount of time they're told something like "Another herb would overdose your body."  Vials/potion would need a limit as well.  This is so that a melee needs to pick does he want to boost his offense or defense and makes dispel magic a better choice to use.
We need to go back to where you had to choose to go for saves or hit/dam.  Do you want to try to block those spells or outdamage?  Carry a few pieces in hand to change tactics but you can't have high saves and high hit/dam at the same time.

[f0xx]

Timing.

[Ulmusdorn]

Ahhhh. I'd just like to point out that we've had a range of strong mages. Azaerk (sp??), izanti, necro in savant, lell etc... 

Possibly could be user error and patience. You don't just succeed with a class over night. 

Melees also die just as often. 

[Magick]

5 hours ago, Ambroas said:

Herbs shouldn't be able to be used in combat neither should vials/potions. 
Consumables need either a slower respawn time or to be weakened in their active time. 
People need a limit on how many they can use, an effective way could be to limit herbs within a time frame.  If they use too many in a short amount of time they're told something like "Another herb would overdose your body."  Vials/potion would need a limit as well.  This is so that a melee needs to pick does he want to boost his offense or defense and makes dispel magic a better choice to use.

1) Vials and potions can be used in combat, but you have (a) to hold it and (b) it has a chance for failure.  Seeing this applied to herbs I think would balance this out a little.  Or perhaps has a chance for a self flame blind.  Can't tell you how many times I've done the same thing with a cigarette in my mouth trying to work with my hands free.  Or both.

2) I'm not sure that one can limit resets in such a way.  When the area resets, everything respawns.  Leaves us with lower active time ... or

3) Suggestions for a debuff on using too many herbs/potions/pills in a short period of time have been mentioned a number of times before.  Not a unique mechanic either as some other MUDs use this, though to what degree or how it affects usage, I have no idea.  I just know it's used.  If there were any way to limit consumable usage, I believe this would be the better way to go.
3b) The other would be to limit how many of such types you could carry, which also has been suggested.  That limit is currently 24,000 weightless items per 19 pounds of carried weight (120 travel bags into a green knapsack).  Not counting the portable hole in which the maximum item count is limited by your carry weight.  Suggestions offered have gone with one consumable bag of limited capacity/weight or dedicated containers for each consumable type.  Either way, this is an ongoing debate.

[Anume]

Having watched some of your battles on your various mages, I think you do pretty well. When you fail badly, it's mostly due to major mistakes or bad tactics.

I still suggest you guys roll up a warrior, whatever race you deem strongest and play it. 

I think you will have a lot of difficulties. But one way or another, you will learn how to fight them better on your main char, the mage.

[Pali]

33 minutes ago, Magick said:

1) Vials and potions can be used in combat, but you have (a) to hold it and (b) it has a chance for failure.  Seeing this applied to herbs I think would balance this out a little.  Or perhaps has a chance for a self flame blind.  Can't tell you how many times I've done the same thing with a cigarette in my mouth trying to work with my hands free.  Or both.

I love the self flame-blind idea.  When the wind shifts or you turn your head and that little extra smoke drifts into your eye - ouch.  You are definitely spending a minute blinking a painful, watery eyeball clear.

[tassinvegeta]

Yeah I've been having some hard times with my dk's and paladins in recent years. Even more fearful of playing a mage. I know I'll never be top tier like the melee counterparts I've always played and those I have to fight against but I feel in game mechanics shouldn't detract me from what I've always envisioned and fantasized. I have brought this up in the past and just like I predicted there are few that have been rolled and even fewer whom have done as well. Soon theirs just going to be the same few classes running around the place. 

Major props to guys like Pas who even though didn't stand a chance against his Knight counterparts enjoyed the rp so much he kept at it, even came back a second time.

[Anume]

Pas did pretty well vs most knights from what I've seen.

[tassinvegeta]

I don't think doing pretty well will always cut it. From my perspective with hard work and skill he should've had the capability to be top tier just like the Knights. But I didn't foresee that as being possible. He probably had to put in twice as much effort just to hang in there.

Think we should have a top tier poll on classes and subcabals? I think this might help point out some glaring issues.

[f0xx]

What are you talking about tassin, Pas was a monster. Top tier for sure.

[tassinvegeta]

Not from what I seen fighting alongside him or comments from some of the Knight players. He was strong most certainly but can you really say a Pande monk is as strong as other monk combos? Can you explain the synergy to me?

[f0xx]

I can, but we are not allowed to discuss cabal skills in depth on the forums. The only thing an avatar monk in praet has over one in pandy is a bit more stats.

Other than that, a pandy monk is stronger AND has a higher power ceiling due to the fact that avatars can't be Leaders.

[tassinvegeta]

Perhaps a bit stronger due to a single skill. But the Avatar Praet has a number of significantly more useful skills. And I wasn't just referring to the strength of them in comparison to each other but to other classes as well. The L issue doesn't come into play in probably 99% of scenarios. I fought both of them with my Crusader and the difference in results were pretty ridiculous lol.

[Fool_Hardy]

Umm. Kipple says Pas was awesome. Don't make me investigate you.

 

Edit: Sorry got derailed.

As for the original content. Its not you as a mage that is failing necessarily perhaps what you are seeing is them succeeding.

counter for traps, dirt, and haymaker is word of recall + choose your battlefield

herbs work for mages too, but consumables have changed our world

I love the blinded by smoke idea, cigarette smoke to the eye can cost a worker a finger.

Personally, I find it odd that my invokers can burn the steel armor you are wearing to dust, but the herbs in your inventory were not damaged.

[Izzy]

Im just learning the toon.  Trying to figure out what kinda armor to wear.  Learning what to do.  I love the class Im playing.  I think I just need to play it a bit more.  I rush to much as well.  throw myself in the fire when Im not ready.  I need to learn to treat it like actual death rather then lalalalala.  I think its user error for sure.  I do pretty well with one of my toons because I took my time.

[f0xx]

There you go my friend, now you are on the right course.

[tassinvegeta]

Yes that's a good way of seeing it. Mages usually do better the longer the battle lasts, time is usually in your favor. Try to rely on strategies that have longer lasting affects.

[Anume]

Wait until an invoker hellstreams one of your backpacks and the whole mess lands on the floor

[Izzy]

I will con death this toon and roll another.  I do love being able to do things alone and it does have a lot of options.  Hopefully, I will figure it out sooner rather then later.