Dear America

[FatMike]

Wow. Pretty random rage. Awesome. 

[Cydare]

I realize that people in the Leftist cult are not all like this, but to write a poem which includes lines asking Trump to shove a nuclear bomb up his ass and then feign away the issue of incitement like it's nothing more than art is pure absurdity.  This intellectual gambit failed.  There will not be a place for you to have civil discourse when you think with your feelings rather than with logic.

The salt over Trump needs to stop.  Seeing the hubris of crybaby leftists and their refusal towards goods sportsmanship is like watching swathes of toddlers rolling on the floor of a Walmart wailing that they didn't get the flavor of Airheads candy that they wanted.

[Manual Labour]

why did he delete the poem? I would have liked to have read it, and then bash it myself

I always had the feeling Valek was a post-modernist/deconstructionist, so that immediately polarizes us politically.

I don't get why he bashed this game though? What does FL have to do with any of this other than being an escape from reality...

[Fool_Hardy]

FTR When I welcomed him home, I did warn him not to go political. <sigh>

Must be the medications. When I met him here before , he would never have spoken so rashly.

Peace find you Reverend, I can sense you are in Turmoil.

[Kyzarius]

Cydare, you are being a royal ass.

 

Why is an imm calling people crybabies and insulting folks? 

 

Is it the staffs stance to marginalize people based on their views with insulting rhetoric and name calling? 

 

I am not even close to the extreme on either side and the language pisses me off anyways.

[Erelei]

It was a response to Valek, particularly. 

You shouldn't be offended, especially since it doesn't apply to you (or anyone here) except for the voice that Valek has been using since he returned. I'll let Cydare respond more directly, though.

[Vaerick]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. All you people who are arguing whether or not Trump or Hillary is better are missing the entire point. The system itself is fucked, so why would you expect a decent candidate to make it through? It's like asking someone to crawl through a sewer and expecting them to come out smelling pretty. Not going to happen.

To all the protesters- all I can say is fuck off. Bernie actually got cheated and there wasn't mass protests. The DNC is responsible, imo, for Trump. People didn't want the establishment in 2016. The republicans couldn't contain their anti-establishment coup de etat because they lacked infrastructure that the DNC had intact (ie, superdelegates, media ties, etc). For the democrats to put out Hillary, the embodiment of "the establishment" against Trump who, for better or worse, is not within the current status quo, was insane.

Want to be angry? Be angry it was HRC on the gorram ballot to begin with. Be mad that closed primaries allow two non-elected private entites to hold complete control over our elections. Blame the unlimited flow of money from special interests who have essentially usurped a government of the people, by the people, for the people, for one that swears alleigance to the allmighty dollar. Trump's election is not the cancer, but rather a symptom of the overlying problem. And honestly, HRC's candidacy is also a symptom of that cancer. HRC might have sounded a lot nicer- no racist comments, a woman, etc. But make no mistake. She was an elitist who wouldn't blink an eye for you if you were worth less than 10 mil. So, I mean, it's degrees of shitiness, it's not like she is leaps and bounds over Trump- her favor-ability is almost equally as shitty as his.

All that said, I think republican obstructionism vs President Obama is largely the cause for this level of vitriol to Trump's election. Let's be real people. The dems and reps have been fucking with each other for years in an ever escalating war to destroy each other, so neither side is innocent and neither side should get a pass.

[Zoichan]

I'm getting a bit tired of the generalities going on. Racists on the Right. Crybabies on the left. Neither are fair from an objective viewpoint.

My sister was actually elected as a representative of her county. She went to the DNC. She watched Hillary get nominated to represent the Democratic party (The camera actually panned to her on national television which was pretty cool. She lives in Arkansas, so she got a front row seat to the whole thing.) She organized countless rallies in her city. She fought for Hillary, because she believed in her.

Last weekend, we had a family reunion. My sister was crushed. Did she weep? Yes. Did I view her as a crybaby? No. She was mourning the loss of Hillary. So, what's my response to be to that? While I'm sitting next to her on the couch, and tears stream down her face everytime she picks up her phone and looks at Facebook? Maybe I should tell her 'Suck it up, Trump won.' That would be a great idea if I wanted to perpetuate the idea that all Trump supporters are assholes. (Of which I am not, a Trump supporter nor an asshole.)

We have forgotten that people are still people. I don't fear for America being lead by Trump. I fear for the steady decline and loss of humanity that has been occurring over the last few years. Progress is never a straight line up. I pray this is just a dip in the graph.

[Kyzarius]

14 minutes ago, Zoichan said:

I'm getting a bit tired of the generalities going on. Racists on the Right. Crybabies on the left. Neither are fair from an objective viewpoint.

I know, it is all just hard-line tactics to lump people together and silence their voice.

I am fiscally conservative, and socially liberal. 

Does this just make me a racist crybaby? 

no, it makes me a business owner who draws low tax dividends, playing with interest and investments, while at the same time making sure all of my employees get 100% insurance, a living wage, and profit sharing. 

Did I vote for Hillary yes, but it had nothing to do with some media driven ideological painting of Trump's character, or her emails.  I just felt she could actually get things done while driving an agenda that preserves my lifestyle and satisfied my conscience when it comes to taking care of others.   Now that Trump is in I will see huge benefits, but at the same time am concerned about how his policies are going to wilt the lower-middle class.  His tax plan for example is going to be great for my pocketbook, but man is it going to hurt the single moms that work for me.  

The protests are a good thing (the non violent aspect_, The election was far from one side. They ensure that some voices are still heard, a reminder that as a country we are divided down the middle.  Categorizing them as cry babies is not productive, and just eats away at both sides ability to support a message. 

 

[Manual Labour]

It is also not productive to call Trumps win a "whitelash"

The problem is usually the loudest voices are also the stupidest.

[egreir]

5 hours ago, Manual Labour said:

It is also not productive to call Trumps win a "whitelash"

The problem is usually the loudest voices are also the stupidest.

That's the social media plague for you. Morons who would never be given 2 seconds to talk in the real world now have a pedestal to spew their ignorance all over the place while all their ignorant followers read it and spread it as truth....I wish I could be reborn back in the 30s or 40s :/

[Pali]

40 minutes ago, egreir said:

.I wish I could be reborn back in the 30s or 40s :/

I certainly don't.  No internet, no Star Trek, no equal rights for blacks/gays, drafts for wars that make our current ones look like minor skirmishes, a less educated citizenry, real risk of nuclear war... The list goes on.  I will happily trade these things for people being morons on social media.

[Celerity]

13 hours ago, Valek said:

Im not arguing with a bunch of conspiracy theorist, context abusing, fallacy riddled, anti-intellectual, and downright blind to the meanings of privilege and equality that are right wing nut jobs. 

Did somebody call? I haven't even posted in this thread yet.

My advice to you is to never lose your cool. As soon as you become angry, you become more than guilty of that which you hate. Anger is the failure of reason, right? It certainly doesn't help with creating an intellectual image.

I think much of the issue (that the 'right' feel) isn't with the 'left' becoming emotional about the election, I think it is more about the lawlessness and 'regressive' (thank's Pali!) attitudes that are coming out. You can be sad, crushed, or whatever emotion strikes you, but you can't go out looting and calling the other team racists. I believe the majority of people on both sides are good about this, but the vocal minority get the attention. We shouldn't feed into the negativity, if we can help it.

As for talking about things we disagree on, we shouldn't ever stop. I can talk with Pali over multiple threads, over multiple years, sometimes agreeing, sometimes not, but we never make it personal. We don't lash out at each other as people. Instead we focus on the topics. This is good for him, me, and everyone else who read our discussions.

Another point of advice: Getting a degree doesn't make you smart. People who have them usually already know this, and people who don't also know it. It looks arrogant to say so, and I can't think of a situation in which it will help you in by saying it (unless you are arguing something directly related to your field of study, and even then, questionable). I have a masters, and the work I put into some of my FL projects/designs was more intensive and intellectual than the mostly fluff that went into my studies. Certainly, my work in high school was more challenging than most anything after it. It is especially true about my field, and I know it is true about your field as well, since our fields are 'cousins' in social science.

Did you really want me to examine your poetic work under a literary lens? If you think these people bashing your topics are offensive, wait until you get some real comprehensive criticism. And, by the way, as you well know, the topic in context, as well in the audience's context, must be examined in any basic analysis. Your posting the poem here is part of the expression of the poem and that can't be ignored. The discussion, even 'scientific', will become political very quickly. I know this because I worked as a graduate researcher doing 'critical research' for a literature professor, and political interjections (concerning national politics: very pro-Obama, anti-Bush rhetoric at that time) were all over the peer-reviewed research of that time. I also, as a language teacher, dealt with the teaching and analysis of writing, including creative stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if there were people even more specialized than me around this community who might not even have a degree in the field.

[Zavero]

2 hours ago, egreir said:

That's the social media plague for you. Morons who would never be given 2 seconds to talk in the real world now have a pedestal to spew their ignorance all over the place while all their ignorant followers read it and spread it as truth....I wish I could be reborn back in the 30s or 40s :/

Damn... Maybe I could finally afford a deuce coupe....

[Pali]

11 minutes ago, Celerity said:

Another point of advice: Getting a degree doesn't make you smart.

Agreed, and the corollary is that not having a degree doesn't make you dumb - I don't have a degree, but most people tend to view me as intelligent and I score very highly on IQ tests.  There is also the risk of tunnel vision occurring when one becomes highly immersed in a specific field - an economist is likely to view historical events through the lens of economic forces and ownership of capital, and may fail to take into account cultural or religious factors when explaining the causes of a conflict, while an anthropologist might do the reverse.  If you always use a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.  The best way I can think of to fight this is to do your best to openly engage with people with screwdrivers.

[Celerity]

You are highly intelligent Pali, but the IQ test reference doesn't help you at all there.

[Zavero]

It seems to me intelligent people never refer to themselves as intelligent. They simply are. Honestly, that isn't a poke at you pali, just my view of folks talking about intelligence. I don't know what your level of intelligence is. I do know you have a good vocabulary!

[Pali]

I'm aware of their flaws, but I'd argue they do have value - but that's another conversation entirely.  

 

Edit: No worries, @Zavero.  Technically, I didn't call myself intelligent anyways - I just said that people seem to think I am and that I do well on tests intended to measure intelligence.  Being the child of a lawyer and a politician taught me to phrase things carefully.  

[Cydare]

There are people that got sucked into the great campaign game and let their emotions govern them more than reason.  Trump played it like a pro, he played it to win.  The way he tore down his [perceived] strongest opponent, Jeb Bush, right from the beginning, was one obvious tactic he used right out of the gate.  The problem is, people bought into the game and imbibed it as if it were nutritious and edible.  I believe Cobert said it best -- "we drank too much of the poison".  Yes.  Cobert did too.  Some of them are in the throes of withdrawal, including him, because bitter "party-ism" becomes an identity.  What we eat, we become.  Cells die, and are rebuilt with the materials we consume as food, just like if you consume emotional hype over reasoned logic, you become a zealot.  Both the left and the right have these zealots.

If I say crybabies, I'm talking about crybabies.  If I point to a group of people and say, "crybabies", I am talking about the crybabies in the group, not the group.  There is a mature way to go about supporting the president elect.  Obama is doing it.  The people that are still acting like children and chanting "not my president" are living in a dream world, and there will come a time when they will have to reckon with reality.  Do it now, stop wasting your time. 

[Trick]

12 hours ago, Pali said:

Agreed, and the corollary is that not having a degree doesn't make you dumb - I don't have a degree, but most people tend to view me as intelligent and I score very highly on IQ tests.  There is also the risk of tunnel vision occurring when one becomes highly immersed in a specific field - an economist is likely to view historical events through the lens of economic forces and ownership of capital, and may fail to take into account cultural or religious factors when explaining the causes of a conflict, while an anthropologist might do the reverse.  If you always use a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.  The best way I can think of to fight this is to do your best to openly engage with people with screwdrivers.

Did you watch Arrival? This post is very, very similar to a line in the recent movie. Its not uncommon to think that way, but I just watched it last night so it's still fresh in my mind.

[Pali]

Nope, hadn't even heard of it.  I don't go to movies often these days.  Any good?