Cabal's and low members

[Lloth]

 

8 hours ago, sarcon said:

100% Agree. I just witnessed someone being in Cabal A sitting at Trusted, while someone else in Cabal B literally went from Inductee to Elder before said player in Cabal A was promoted to Elder, in a cabal with 0 Elders. 

"This character was promoted so much faster than this other character." That is what you're saying.

That character knows who they are. Other players know who that character is. 

This topic has been addressed very recently, and it was discussed in-depth why hours alone don't mean enough for a promotion. All this thread has done is what I mentioned. If you want to discuss cabal promotions for your characters, it should be initiated with a prayer post, not this. If you want to discuss cabal promotions as a whole, then you should join the community discussion, where no character needs an allusion to in order to point out why you think you need a promotion.

[sarcon]

I could have probably worded this better then, I apologize. I was just pointing out the differences of advancement, and your right it doesn't matter how many game hours you play, it's the quality of the player. I get all that. I've just been a strong believer in auto-promotions and used this rate of promotion as an example. The player in question regarding this promotion deserved it x 1000%, so it has nothing to do with the actual character, what they've done or didn't do, it was just the difference in rate of promotions. That's all. 

[sarcon]

This is also not about cabal promotions for my character specifically. I've had multiple characters I've been T, E L and ran through the gambit, I'm just expressing that I think there should be some game mechanics for it, just my opinion, not trying to drag anyone in the mud.  I dump characters so fast that at the end of the day, I would only be T, E, or L for so long anyways.  

[Ulmusdorn]

1 hour ago, sarcon said:

 I dump characters so fast that at the end of the day, I would only be T, E, or L for so long anyways.  

This is one behaviour that we want to avoid. So having this mentality doesnt work in your favour.

The characters that have been given the responssibility of E or L have exactly that, a responsibility. A responsibility to ensure that you are enriching the environment for everyone, that you are available to push your cabals agenda, that you are available for your cabal members and management of the cabal, that you are available to RP etc.

Realistically you are taking over some of the responsibilities of the imm who runs the cabal. So we have to make sure you're not going to just leave next week. Or that we trust you to do half as good a job as we do. That being said, don't get me wrong, there is nothing better then handing over that responsibility. The fact I have a E in my cabal is fantastic. He takes care of 99% of my duties.. Cause thats his job and it works so well for me. But I trust him to do it.

[Magick]

10 hours ago, sarcon said:

I also agree here, I just find that any toon I roll, my RP changes depending on promotion. Thus, there are times I personally find I'm waiting to roll out XYZ RP plans yet can't do anything until the promotion happens. Maybe that is a toon build flaw I have. 

The first half isn't as bad.  RP changing as the character changes is what makes characters grow.  The second bit, I find this kind of behavior as quite self-limiting.  You working in this fashion creates steps.  Sometimes large steps.

You may or may not have heard the adage "Dress for the job you want, not the job you have."  Why wait to roll out Elder RP Plan #3 til you're E?  Start while you're a T or V, or hell, even an I.  The bulk of your plans can still wait til the regarded slot, but this doesn't mean you can't put your foot in the proverbial door.  And it gives you something to do while waiting (thus also keeping your interest in your character longer [hopefully]).  And it shows that you're striving for said position or at least cabal productive.  AND it makes the legwork for your planned RP when you get your coveted position easier as you've already been laying down (more of) the foundation since day 1.

Doing this may (or may not) smooth those steps down into something more manageable, like a hill.  This image comes to mind to illustrate the difference, not to imply privilege.

[FatMike]

@Ulmusdorn best post ever. Can't argue with any of it, can't even disagree. 

[Izzy]

I just play to have fun.  Whats with the politics guys!

 

Lets just all get along......

 

 

[Kyzarius]

COUP THEM ALLLLLLLLL

[Magick]

 

[Ulmusdorn]

Seeing as Im on a roll I want to address a range of thoughts from Izzy - not because I think he's wrong but for two reasons - Firstly he changes his mind from the beginning sentiment to the end. Secondly because I think there are a number of people who may have some similar feelings to various degrees. 

 

 

13 hours ago, Izzy said:

There is too little in the way of rewards for Cabals.  Not everyone is going to be an elder, leader.  Most everyone will get trusted if they put the work in.  Then what do those players have to look forward to,the ones knowing that they probobly wont get elder or anything else.  Should be things to reward everyone, at the end of the day people just want to be noticed.  This is a phycological thing about being human.  People want to know they are doing a good job.  Thats it, its simple.

By too little in the way of rewards do you refer to: 

1. The massive boost in power in comparison to an uncaballed character?
2. The custom skills
3. The custom armor (often some of the best in the game. Period). 
4. The purpose (PK) and the RP backing of that purpose (the backdrop to create your character rather then creating something completely unique and stand alone - think Korthian and the start of KBS - which for those of you who don't know is where Merchant as a cabal was sprung. That was some epic solo work). 
 

 

15 hours ago, Izzy said:

1. Everybody plays ANY game to excel at it.  In whatever way they wish to excel and it.  In this game some might  be trying to excel RP.  PK for another. Perhaps a  mix of both.  Yet we are all people.  When I play COD if I dont have above a 2.0 kill death ratio, im not happy.  When I play wow and its raid night, if we arent progressing and killing the raids, im not happy.

 

2. With all of those things that is in your control mostly.  Here it feels like a job.  You've been working hard doing your thing, putting in work and then you dont get promoted.  Well I can say it as simply as this.  When I am at a job and doing my thing and the promotion doesn't happen.  My ass is quitting and going to find a job where I can move up.  Who doesnt want to progress.  There is too few ways to move up on this game.  I play my toons stand around lalalalalalala.

 

3. Then I ask myself what the hell is it you want me to do?  Make it clearer for me.

 

4. This can be changed very simply by making the players in charge of the cabal period.  I make a clan on COD we do some team deathmatch, domination.  I dont need to please anyone.  I do my job.  I move up through the ranks, can start recruiting players, chat....so on and so forth.  Thats in 30 hours of playtime.

 

5. I have played an average of 200 hours on each of my toons.

 

6. The thought process is oh but you need to be this and that and this to get elder and leader in this game.  Yet you forget we are people.  People get bored of doing nothing.  Who cares if one person was a leader, then he/she quit.  That makes room for another.  Oh we had an elder then he quit.  Again who cares.  ITS JUST A GAME.  

Its supposed to be fun and not a job.

EDIT: EDITED BY ULMY TO ADD POINTS SO EASIER TO FOLLOW: 

 

1. Rewards on games that do not rely on relationships or fine political balance are very easy. You play with millions of people and what ever anyone thinks of @playername with 2.0 is meaningless. Our community is small, but although its restricted in size your actions have real power. You can influence the 'life' of someone here in ways someone who just plays FPS or WoW will never be able to comprehend. 

2. FL isn't a job. Its still a game. If you treat it like a job then you're taking away your own enjoyment. Stop. Pause. Admire. This game has some of the richest content I've ever seen. Be it in a game or in a book. We have some of the most creative people add bits over a lifetime of hours. Room descriptions. Quests. Tomes. History. Prophecies. Areas. Armor. If you stop, look. Consider. Understand and enjoy then I can tell you - you'll find it very hard to ever be bored. This doesnt even touch on the development of your own character or the interactions you can have with any other player. We have 50,000+ rooms here...

3. What do we want you to do? Its pretty clear. We have some clear systems in place that track rewards with RP points. Enrich. Teach. If you are a herald create through the written word. Take me away, capture my imagination. If you are a Savant why not teach? Find a warrior. Sit them down. Maybe you'll form a new ally? Influence someone so much that a non mage joins the tower - can you imagine? Your little bodyguard because you persuaded them. If you're a Knight, embody those commandments. Help an evil, spread the word of your god, convert the masses.  

4. You're right. You do your job. Thats the definition of a grunt. Even a trust worthy one - this doesnt mean you're a leader of men. Even as an initiate do you not believe in your cause enough to start recruiting already? To start persuading others that you way is the only way? Are cabals not the zealots of their beliefs (even those the interpretations of those beliefs can be varied under the cabals doctrine)? 

5. As we've mentioned before. Hours are not always an indication of quality. 150 hours sat in a cabal will never equate to 10 hours of TOP NOTCH rp or PK. Effecting the lands with your notoriety. For me personally, I know when my morts are ready for the E or L step when I have the respect of not only my enemies but the people I never interact with either. Thats not to say I don't hate these figures who make E and L with my morts too, but I respect them all the same. Take Lelleiala for example. I have 0 interaction with her at all on my mort. But I know of her and respect her as an E despite that - she has enough influence that my mort is influenced to this opinion despite never speaking to her. (Just an example).

6. Yes you are people. But so are all the other people who play this game. To hop on a point I made earlier, this is a responsibility. Your actions will effect and influence other players (people) enjoyment of the game. 

 

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I just play to have fun.  Whats with the politics guys!

Lets just all get along......

 

Don't sell yourself short by changing your tone Izzy. We love debate. We love feedback. We will always welcome player comment. But we'll also ensure that all voices are heard and in our extended experience (Think on this, the imm staff probably have nearly 60-100 REAL YEARS of experience between them with FL. We know this game. We have seen and we have experienced.)  when we say something isn't a good idea it is because we know best - but its also because we've talked or argued the hell out of it first.

 

Please don't read this post is anything other then appreciation for you putting forward something that was bothering you and could be the voice of the people. If you or any other player wishes to speak IG or here privately you know how to find me and my door is always open. 

 

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

Seeing as Im on a roll I want to address a range of thoughts from Izzy - not because I think he's wrong but for two reasons - Firstly he changes his mind from the beginning sentiment to the end. Secondly because I think there are a number of people who may have some similar feelings to various degrees. 

 

 

By too little in the way of rewards do you refer to: 

1. The massive boost in power in comparison to an uncaballed character?
2. The custom skills
3. The custom armor (often some of the best in the game. Period). 
4. The purpose (PK) and the RP backing of that purpose (the backdrop to create your character rather then creating something completely unique and stand alone - think Korthian and the start of KBS - which for those of you who don't know is where Merchant as a cabal was sprung. That was some epic solo work). 
 

 

 

1. Rewards on games that do not rely on relationships or fine political balance are very easy. You play with millions of people and what ever anyone thinks of @playername with 2.0 is meaningless. Our community is small, but although its restricted in size your actions have real power. You can influence the 'life' of someone here in ways someone who just plays FPS or WoW will never be able to comprehend. 

2. FL isn't a job. Its still a game. If you treat it like a job then you're taking away your own enjoyment. Stop. Pause. Admire. This game has some of the richest content I've ever seen. Be it in a game or in a book. We have some of the most creative people add bits over a lifetime of hours. Room descriptions. Quests. Tomes. History. Prophecies. Areas. Armor. If you stop, look. Consider. Understand and enjoy then I can tell you - you'll find it very hard to every be bored. This doesnt even touch on the development of your own character or the interactions you can have with any other player. We have 50,000+ rooms here...

3. What do we want you to do? Its pretty clear. We have some clear systems in place that track rewards with RP points. Enrich. Teach. If you are a herald create through the written word. Take me away, capture my imagination. If you are a Savant why not teach? Find a warrior. Sit them down. Maybe you'll form a new ally? Influence someone so much that a non mage joins the tower - can you imagine? Your little bodyguard because you persuaded them. If you're a Knight, embody those commandments. Help an evil, spread the word of your god, convert the masses.  

4. You're right. You do your job. Thats the definition of a grunt. Even a trust worthy one. Even as an initiate do you not believe in your cause enough to start recruiting already? To start persuading others that you way is the only way? Are cabals not the zealots of their beliefs (even those the interpretations of those beliefs can be varied under the cabals doctrine)? 

5. As we've mentioned before. Hours are not always an indication of quality. 150 hours sat in a cabal will never equate to 10 hours of TOP NOTCH rp or PK. Effecting the lands with your notoriety. For me personally, I know when my morts are ready for the E or L step when I have the respect of not only my enemies but the people I never interact with either. Thats not to say I don't hate these figures who make E and L with my morts too, but I respect them all the same. Take Lelleiala for example. I have 0 interaction with her at all on my mort. But I know of her and respect her as an E despite that - she has enough influence that my mort is influenced to this opinion despite never speaking to her. (Just an example).

6. Yes you are people. But so are all the other people who play this game. To hop on a point I made earlier, this is a responsibility. Your actions will effect and influence other players (people) enjoyment of the game. 

 

 

Don't sell yourself short by changing your tone Izzy. We love debate. We love feedback. We will always welcome player comment. But we'll also ensure that all voices are heard and in our extended experience (Think on this, the imm staff probably have nearly 60-100 REAL YEARS of experience between them with FL. We know this game. We have seen and we have experienced.)  when we say something isn't a good idea it is because we know best - but its also because we've talked or argued the hell out of it first.

 

Please don't read this post is anything other then appreciation for you putting forward something that was bothering you and could be the voice of the people. If you or any other player wishes to speak IG or here privately you know how to find me and my door is always open. 

 

 

This is a great post.  I do feel like the armor and the other things are definitely perks of being in a cabal.  When I talk about rewards, simple things a pat on the back.  Everyone wants to know your doing a good job.  Maybe some cps.  Perhaps a cool title for a week.  It doesn't just need to be a promotion.

 

I love to debate, I really do.  I understand peoples frustration, but life is too short to be upset over little things.

[Zavero]

I have to say that although your post was not directed towards others, that I took a lot from them @Ulmusdorn. Along with @Lloth's thread, these to me are examples of going above and beyond as an Immortal. You didn't have to take time to make the points that you did but you did just that. I personally appreciate it. 

I know it can be a pain but I think this is the type of feedback that will make this game that much better.

It was not my intent but with that I'll remove my lips from your ass. 

[Anume]

My pov in this is I will gladly  hand over power if someone in my cabal shows that they are able to take charge and responsibility, support the cabal, its members, involve themselves in the cabals politics, recruitment, etc. Adhere to the rules, lead without shoving an Iamsogreat into peoples throats.

My IDEAL cabal status is having a L and an E who handle everything and give recommendations for inductions and promotions (which usually will be followed). So much less work for me. I also tell possible candidates regularly what I want to see form them.

[Zoichan]

I miss Belderon. When he was Leader I flat out told him Tribunal was his baby, and he rocked it.

I currently have a plethora of Trusted Tribunals. I have sent out at least 3 notes, saying hey, someone take charge. Someone take initiative. Someone give exams to the people who are in Militia and make recommendations for entrance. No one has done it. I haven't even gotten so much as a note saying 'sure I'll give it ago!' So, I still have a plethora of Trusted Tribunals.  I don't care if you play 300 hours a month. I care that you do something.

[Pali]

If it makes you feel any better, I did have Kazif encouraging me to join up recently.  

[Mali]

Does LLOTH always RP an evil spider goddess both in the game and on the forum?

I invite you to add to the discussion without undermining the discussion itself. Since the player did not post any in game info about their character or others, using OOC imm knowledge to imply that is what is happening is out of line. 

I do understand it is hard to avoid. That is why I play nowadays only through VPN.