English lad Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 If i remember correctly Healers got a fairly major decrease in PVP power after Acerbity's halfling healer in Knight. Not sure if he still plays - or under what forum handle these days. Lotho was also a beast - that was MF right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 IIRC, a big part of the problem is that healers were intended to be OP - but they were also intended to almost never enter PK, except possibly against undead. Then a few people started playing highly aggressive healers, and the class was nerfed as a result; personally, I'd have preferred that healer RP be more heavily enforced and the class remain more powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted December 15, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 2 hours ago, English lad said: If i remember correctly Healers got a fairly major decrease in PVP power after Acerbity's halfling healer in Knight. Not sure if he still plays - or under what forum handle these days. Lotho was also a beast - that was MF right? Pesomuvae and Crisnae. Though the nerfs came much later after their denials / deletions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 Lotho was a beast indeed. I remember we ganged him with 4 people in order to kill him. One of them was a character of the then coder Zhokril I don't ever remember healers getting any major nerfs, unless we are talking a long long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English lad Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 22 minutes ago, Erelei said: Pesomuvae and Crisnae. Though the nerfs came much later after their denials / deletions. Yeah thats them - it was Crisnae that I was thinking of that i credited with the Nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted December 15, 2016 Report Share Posted December 15, 2016 10 hours ago, English lad said: If i remember correctly Healers got a fairly major decrease in PVP power after Acerbity's halfling healer in Knight. Not sure if he still plays - or under what forum handle these days. Lotho was also a beast - that was MF right? Acerbity's more modern forum handle is Jibber. Lotho was Mindflayer, yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Mage classes have some pretty wicked power spikes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwetton Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 The main thing I remember about healers was the Lag Increase on heal and it was a game changer as far as how survivable they were in PVP. I played ALOT of healers though granted I mainly played passive healers who gave buffs etc and RP'd even though I'd cabal, I would basically tank up and let people smack me and heal myself and never play the aggressor, personally Ive always loved healers and wanna play one again. I enjoy gating to areas, scouting enemies, healing/buffing my allies to keep them safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Go back a bit farther and healers could gate to PCs - removing that was probably their biggest nerf prior to the heal change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwetton Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Yea i never experienced that part, but that definitely shouldn't be allowed, at least to NPCs it requires a working knowledge of NPC's near where you want to go and is sufficient for gating. But Yea i cried when the heal change happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pali Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 It wasn't really a problem originally, as I don't recall a single aggressive healer back then - the idea was that it would allow a healer to gate to the person who died and asked for a resurrection, who would likely be at their corpse retrieving eq, and that it only affected PK balance for vampires and undead, both of which were expected to just deal with it. It also wasn't unique originally either, as every 1.0 Savant had access to a similar ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 The problem, if I remember, was a Knight healer gang combo, with the healer constantly gating to harass the target that the other knight was hunting. Tyron was the healer, I think. It was more a problem of two ooc friends ganging everyone than a healer issue. This was early 2.0. Healers lost their bash protection (like the reflective shield nerf) at the same time heal became a two rounder. Also, they made it so divine retribution wore off after moving. These changes, combined with the can't restore condition from PVP death nerf to resurrection (earlier change) made healers worthless. Less defensive and offensive than a cleric, with crazy PK restrictions and not even a signature support ability. They are a gimmick class at best, kinda like old bards. I say scrap the whole healer class and work on a replacement with a different theme and specialization. A passive support role isn't suited to modern FL gameplay. Do a bit of comparative class analysis and find out what class roles/game mechanics need some love and focus the new class in that direction. A rogue/caster or rogue/communer hybrid perhaps. Maybe a goodie version of the necro. Either way, a goodie that focuses on the mal saves category would be fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwetton Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 I mean they could serve a purpose as a support class doing what they should be doing, cleansing and healing etc support in a cabal situation, scouting enemies without engaging since they're supposed to not be aggressive. But I agree they need a re-work. Ive been praying for it for years... its tbh my favorite class in game.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English lad Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 The change that was made specifically to deal with PK heavy healers was removing Divine Retribution on move. This was a well designed change - as it ment that healers could still chase someone if they wanted to - but they had very little ability to do damage when chasing. The majority of a healers damage comes from Divine Retribution. If a healer is chasing, engaging, and then casting divine retribution - the likely-hood is that the person they are chasing has fled before any damage from Divine Retribution goes through. Previously they would be guaranteed at least a couple of hits from Divine retribution on engaging if they managed to chase someone down who was running. Personally i think the Heal change was unnecessary - as Healers should be strong at keeping themselves alive. The Divine Retribution change dealt with the problem of aggressive healers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
English lad Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 4 hours ago, Celerity said: I say scrap the whole healer class and work on a replacement with a different theme and specialization. A passive support role isn't suited to modern FL gameplay. Do a bit of comparative class analysis and find out what class roles/game mechanics need some love and focus the new class in that direction. A rogue/caster or rogue/communer hybrid perhaps. Maybe a goodie version of the necro. Either way, a goodie that focuses on the mal saves category would be fitting. I've thought for years that Good / Neutral align are missing a decent status effect focused class - not including Psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted December 16, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 Healers do have prot shield. The lag on heal is also ONLY longer when you heal in combat.... which you shouldn't anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 They have protective shield, but they lost the ability for both protective shield and divine retribution (I think that is how it is anyways, been a long time). Their lag protection was certainly nerfed at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magick Posted December 16, 2016 Report Share Posted December 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, Celerity said: They have protective shield, but they lost the ability for both protective shield and divine retribution (I think that is how it is anyways, been a long time). This would be inaccurate. They can have both on at the same time. What they can't have on simultaneously is divine retribution and barrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Anume Posted December 17, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted December 17, 2016 what Magick said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekky Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 I think what's being lost in all this talk about druids and healers is that everyone should be playing berserkers. Rage/bodyslam, people. It's the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreir Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 blast from the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekky Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, egreir said: blast from the past Yep, I suddenly got the itch again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magick Posted December 20, 2016 Report Share Posted December 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Nekky said: I think what's being lost in all this talk about druids and healers is that everyone should be playing berserkers. Rage/bodyslam, people. It's the way. Holy hell! Where did you come from? Your last post was like 3 years ago. Welcome back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekky Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 37 minutes ago, Magick said: Holy hell! Where did you come from? Your last post was like 3 years ago. Welcome back. I've been around here and there, keeping tabs on the forums and stuff but not really playing. You know what they say, no one ever really quits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celerity Posted December 21, 2016 Report Share Posted December 21, 2016 Welcome back @Nekky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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