My two cents.

[Izzy]

22 minutes ago, Celerity said:

One solution to the cabal guardian problem is stop it from being an in-game fight. If it you made it so that a cabal guardian is defeated by time (say level/10 + 1 ticks), it will balance things out regardless of the mob killing potential of the class. A character enters the room with a cabal guardian, types a command, and an affect is added. If, on the tick, that player is NOT in the room with the guardian, the affect is lost and no item is gained. If the character makes it through the countdown, they get the item. You can add whatever text flavor you want in game to make it interesting.

Edited 14 minutes ago by Celerity

 

This is a great Idea and I love it.

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

I personally would like to see baby steps.  

 

A change in herb smoking to add lag, or make it work like potions in battle with a chance to fail would be a first start imo. 

 

This should be an automatic change.

[Zavero]

6 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

I personally would like to see baby steps.  

 

A change in herb smoking to add lag, or make it work like potions in battle with a chance to fail would be a first start imo. 

+1

[Izzy]

I know it sounds like I am bitching.  I am not.  I just want to see a little more balance.  I am not saying hey I am doing so terrible that I need a buff.  What I am saying is there are some things that should be looked at.

 

Standing there with dirt in my face watching my alter get smoked IMO is silly (make this room no dirt).  Landing a Dispel then watching someone smoke a herb is silly.  These are instance where you have completely nulified the mage.  Thats just ridiculous IMO.

 

I do pretty decent with my mages.  I am getting better.  There are times when I am fighting the best of the best where you can see when the power creep is real.

[f0xx]

11 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

He also ran with a +3 level though 

I wouldn't say you ran +3 spell levels. I think you did +1 mental lvl, +1 spell level and +1 mal level. Your combo simply has no way to get +3 spell levels.

Izzy's demon on the other hand occasionally ran +3 spell levels (temp storm, mask of evil, demon helm) and +1 mental level (radiance). So his dispel was actually stronger than yours. 

 

Quote

Look man using my mages is not a good example, I have been playing mages here for ages. 

That's exactly why I use YOUR mages as example. Because you are a brilliant mage player. No matter what you play, be it a cleric, a psi, a necro or shaman it will always be a success. Should I use someone less skilled as example? Is it fair that you use strong melee players as proof for your examples and I am not allowed to use competent mage players in mine?

Izzy's problems don't come from the fact that mages suck. They come from the fact that he is lacking some key PK skills. He is improving quickly though and I am sure that if he stops blaming outside factors for his failures he WILL get better.

It is funny to see you keeping coming and trying to prove how weak mages are though, when you play a successful mage after successful mage. Watching you say mages are weak would be like watching Trick say rangers are weak, or Anume say ogre warriors are weak. Or sarcon say druids are weak

As for herbs being smoken in combat.

Timing is an important skill in PK. If a blademaster wants to take maximum advantage of his disarms he should time them, otherwise his enemy would simply re-wield his weapons. Same goes for a mage using dispel.

[Izzy]

5 minutes ago, f0xx said:

Timing is an important skill in PK. If a blademaster wants to take maximum advantage of his disarms he should time them, otherwise his enemy would simply re-wield his weapons. Same goes for a mage using dispel.

 

This is assuming no matter what the dispel will happen.  Odds are you will get that disarm you are looking for.  Odds are a mage wont land the dispel.  Thats the point I am trying to make.

[f0xx]

5 minutes ago, Izzy said:

This is assuming no matter what the dispel will happen.  Odds are you will get that disarm you are looking for.  Odds are a mage wont land the dispel.  Thats the point I am trying to make.

That's not the odds at all. I can provide you logs where I fail 3-4 disarms in a row. That's lag equal to almost a whole tick. In this time an invoker can dish out 16 dispels.

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, f0xx said:

That's not the odds at all. I can provide you logs where I fail 3-4 disarms in a row. That's lag equal to almost a whole tick. In this time an invoker can dish out 16 dispels.

Well I dont see any problems with invokers.  They are fine just the way they are.

[Pali]

Invokers rely more heavily on aff spells than most other mages as well, and as I noted, aff spells aren't negated by saves to the extent that mal/mental spells are - instead, they always work to a certain degree.

[Manual Labour]

I agree some classes have much more trouble getting the standard than others.

Anyone can retrieve pretty easily though, even shamans.

 

I think it is meaningful to fight for the standard and I would not want to see an auto timer ability that forces you into the room at that tick to get it.

I would rather see cabal mobs that you could hire for CP that move from your cabal to the enemy cabal and start attacking the defender. There could be a few options for type of mob and limit them to one per player at a time, maybe with a cooldown. Opponents could also hire a mob to defend and all these mobs could also be killed by players.

[Pali]

28 minutes ago, f0xx said:

That's not the odds at all. I can provide you logs where I fail 3-4 disarms in a row. That's lag equal to almost a whole tick. In this time an invoker can dish out 16 dispels.

True, yet you also seemed to take issue on the Teldrin log with me having only a 20% success rate over 79 spells - and Rygar was not decked, only decently equipped.  As you mentioned there, had I stuck just to acid blasts I would have been far more effective, but is that the way we want necros to be fighting?  Why bother giving them other spells if the go-to strategy is not to use them because odds are the target will save them?

[f0xx]

In the Teldrin vs Rygar log you can see indeed that Rygar is not "decked", but he is pretty well dressed and has itemized specifically for fighting mages. I would assume his saves are in the high 50s. Such itemisation makes him very vulnerable to other melees though, and fairly so. That's what good balance is about.

So, a 20% success rate of spells against someone who has specifically itemised against you (and made himself vulnerable to others) is not that bad, if you ask me.

[Pali]

21 minutes ago, f0xx said:

In the Teldrin vs Rygar log you can see indeed that Rygar is not "decked", but he is pretty well dressed and has itemized specifically for fighting mages. I would assume his saves are in the high 50s. Such itemisation makes him very vulnerable to other melees though, and fairly so. That's what good balance is about.

So, a 20% success rate of spells against someone who has specifically itemised against you (and made himself vulnerable to others) is not that bad, if you ask me.

I actually agree with this entirely - as I noted in the log, balance can take many forms, and I didn't come away from that fight feeling I had no chance; hell, my minions weren't even strengthened.  Nor is a single log, even a long one, immune from being just bad RNG luck.

 

I'm not a heavy PKer, partly because I rarely choose such an RP, partly because my playtime is usually when few others are on.  My concerns are based less on my direct experience than they are the advice I've been consistently getting to rarely bother with anything but aff spells.  Necros may well be perfectly balanced to largely acid blast their way through fights, but is that how we want necros played, as weak invokers with charmies making up the difference?

[Enethier]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

This is assuming no matter what the dispel will happen.  Odds are you will get that disarm you are looking for.  Odds are a mage wont land the dispel.  Thats the point I am trying to make.

In our last series of fights, you dispelled my circle, lifeforce, shield of thorns, and arms of gaia. Usually all of them. If not, at least 2 of them (usually lifeforce, hence fleeing a lot). I burned through 10 black leaves fighting you on a class with its own sanc-like spell. In twenty(?) minutes. You never failed a dispel, not once.

I had -30 mental saves, so not amazing, but decent.

I am going to have to say... dispel definitely does not need buffing. The only reason you didn't kill me a time or two (since, low and behold, you blasphemied me first path cast 5 times) is because I move faster than you. So that is a large part of why you don't feel as successful as you feel you should.

[Anume]

Kyz, you do base melee questions on the most successful melee characters. Why do you say we should not consider the most successful mages?
Also keep in mind, that any change to mages or herbs will make it even more impossible to defeat a well played mage as it is now. There have been a psi, a necro, an invoker and a battlemage around in the recent future who had all either 100% or nearly there recrods in their favor and basically rolled the pbase. Sure, the players were skilled with the class. So are some players who play melee.