Perhaps it is time to evolve

[Mali]

As much as I have immersed myself in FL through the years, there comes a point where the in-game rewards for play simply do not align with external real player satisfaction. I have come to find that the idea of leading the same cabal with the same army mechanics for the same end-game is a bit stale. We have seen a drastic loss to pbase size from losing old timers and failing to recruit new members.

The purpose of this thread is to invite you to contribute input on what an ideal FL would look like, even if it evolved to the point where it was not FL as we recognize it today.

Specifically:

1. Name one or more mechanics that would intrigue you as a player and offer you a sense of personal satisfaction

2. Identify the over-arching area of play that is most compelling to you. Do armies make you happy? How about sitting in a square emoting? How about chasing and Pking?

3. Express if you think the size of the mud and the arrangement of the world is suitable or needs a change

4. What would the ideal MUD look like to you

5. Can you share concrete changes or new ideas that would make you happy and potentially draw new players?

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[Mali]

1. Name one or more mechanics that would intrigue you as a player and offer you a sense of personal satisfaction

For me, the desire to create is very compelling. Traditional use of "motes" for communication is transient and depends too much on play-along by others in the area. It is also dependent on active communication between myself and other players. 

I have mentioned this before, but I think an "adventure creation kit" tool for players would be very intriguing. If I could dig in any direction and create the world while playing, and not in an OOC way, I would be satisfied at being able to mold and create a world even if it is one that is real only in the sense of the MUD space that we inhabit. Let's forget about RP points for a moment. If you want to create a house or a forest, just dig it and go! Unleash the creative power of the pbase.

2. Identify the over-arching area of play that is most compelling to you. Do armies make you happy? How about sitting in a square emoting? How about chasing and Pking?

I think PK is an essential component of the mud, but also the most controversial. It is the foundation from which all RP essentially emerges. If you don't have the strength to PK your RP, then your RP is typically undervalued. That said, I think the game world could be changed to support RP-driven PK. At the top level of cabal play, with an organization at your command, it still feels like the whole thing is dependent on your ability to move and cast spells or draw a sword. The leverage of a cabal's organizational power could be better expressed through real, aggressive armies, and greater tools for geopolitical change. I would like to see cabal bastions changed to mobs that aggro on enemies, and that can be directed strategically to other rooms during battles. I would also like to abandon capture the flag and re-envision what cabal warfare looks like.

3. Express if you think the size of the mud and the arrangement of the world is suitable or needs a change

We are at a point that we are no longer truly served by the old areas. Winter needs to be gone, as does any other area that does not have 100% complete original content. Easter eggs are ok. Let's take out everything that is not ours and just close it off to the world. The map will change, but it will be our map, and the reduced world size would be fun as it would recreate chasing and running.

4. What would the ideal MUD look like to you

In the most basic sense, the ideal MUD to be would make much greater use of color. Currently, I color code all triggers and it really makes it a better way to play, not just strategically. Some of the biggest MUDS out there have unleashed color. If you type WHO, it is like opening a pack of skittles. I think color and a more playful sense of ambiance would be welcome here. Let's not take ourselves as seriously as we have in the past. 

5. Can you share concrete changes or new ideas that would make you happy and potentially draw new players?

Well, here is perhaps my most controversial suggestion. I think we should form a committee and recreate the mud under a new name, market it as a new game, and do so in a synchronous way to major changes to the map and to play. I am a big fan of Celerity's class idea, and it is radical enough to change the game in a way that warrants a shift this big. I love the pbase here and all we have accomplished. Can we move forward together to a brave new world? What would you call the new Aabrahan? If we were a new game with a familiar shell, would we immediately draw new players? Could we retain them? Would we lose our identity altogether? I think these are questions worth considering now with an eye toward the future. I do not want to be in a single player game. 

Tl;dr, my suggestions which are at this point open points of discussion include: active building real-time by players; abandonment of capture the flag and current army system; greater use of color; redrawing the map to original content only; removing classes to full implementation of Celerity's tiered class structure; rebranding the MUD. 

I did not create this thread as a criticism of the imms or players, old or new. Think of yourselves for a moment not as stewards of FL, but as kids in a game store. What do YOU want to play? What would be fun for you as imms? Free yourself from a moment from your place in the hierarchy to address the questions above openly and honestly. I separated my commentary from the original post as I do not intend the above material to be the foundation for this discussion. Your ideas are essential here as well.

[Kyzarius]

For me it is simple.  Reduce the extremely unnecessary time investment to get things in FL. 

Remove arbitrary promotion standards for cabals.  

One system, automated.  This hidden administrator just deciding one day to be nice and type cabal promote player is old outdated and discouraging. 

We lay some kind of high and mighty standard out as the reason for this.  Though in the end it seems from a players perspective to be more of an "oh yeah I remembered you", system.

We ask to much of players.  It is supposed to be a game, and it should reward like a game.  Loose easy and fun with pvp between players the high end challenge and RP to be a nice distraction from real life and creative outlet.

So i will just repeat this one again. Cabals should be automated through T. With time being 5 hours each rank.  Add a secondary requirement where it fits like WM has with challenges. 

 

[Fool_Hardy]

I can not copy and paste as neatly as some of you so I will answer in my typical wall of text format.

If I could evolve the mud, I would do it through the evolution of characters. I enjoy playing each of them, but like some of you, I get bored once I have mastered everything and done all the quests I can. So I submit that characters should be able to remort to other classes at 50 if they choose. If a character ranks to 50 in all classes available to their race, they can choose to remort to a class usually not allowed to their race. (alignment restrictions applied)

I would also develop a system for characters to submit rooms and or areas for immortal review. Likely would have to be done on forum instead of in game. I would suggest that characters that submit viable, complete, build ideas should be rewarded in game. I would reward them the old fashioned way, make them heroes, official architects of Aabahran.

I would love to see armies and raids as a purchasable RP reward. Marines would tear down bastions all across Aabahran leaving the areas vacant in their wake.

I would add autofire to staves and wands held by mages, with a Herald Mob that can for a fee, recharge in Maelbrim.

I would limit mastery, harshly. I would modify the excessive use of +H+D eq to + Skill Level.

I would revamp Heralds and make them attractive, starting with an exemption from mastery limitations.

I would develop a cabal creation system so the future of Aabahran is placed in the hands of its players, my family, all of you.

 

[Zavero]

I personally do not agree with taking the old areas away without a replacement. Leave the old areas and work towards replacing them with original content. It takes a while to build a new area with unique flavors but over time and with dedication it could be done.

I also do not agree with opening the colors up. I personally like the fact that there are some uniqie colors used for certain things like... Royal/noble colors. It makes it stand out that something is supposed to be important about them.

I think a sandbox like system could be cool. I'm not sure how difficult and time intensive it would be to code though. I'd like to see more of a crafting system. Bards system is pretty fun. Making a pit weapon is pretty fun as well.

Capture the flag does get old but is efficient in the promotion of cabal warfare and PK. It also forces people who aren't good at PKing to step out of their shell and learn it. 

Not sure about rebranding the mud...

Also not sure what post of celerity's that you are refering to. Could you post a link?

Edit: I agree with Fool Hardy on the point of taking area ideas from players. I personally would devote time to building areas. I did it in AR, if given the opportunity I would def do it here.

[Mali]

Not to derail from other ongoing comments, which are great, but here is the link you asked for re: celerity and class structure: 

 

[Mali]

21 minutes ago, Fool_Hardy said:

 

If I could evolve the mud, I would do it through the evolution of characters. I enjoy playing each of them, but like some of you, I get bored once I have mastered everything and done all the quests I can. So I submit that characters should be able to remort to other classes at 50 if they choose. If a character ranks to 50 in all classes available to their race, they can choose to remort to a class usually not allowed to their race. (alignment restrictions applied)

 

I do like the idea of the ability to remort/respec a character whose life you are invested in but who you find limited in terms of mechanics and abilities.

[Cephirus]

1. Name one or more mechanics that would intrigue you as a player and offer you a sense of personal satisfaction

I do not have much experience with graphical muds, so some of you that are may have better flushed out suggestions, but I would like to see Aabahran move towards integrating a graphical component. Even if it is just a customized terminal that would have two displays, one for a map of the area (which would have maps you have learned, and slightly different coloring for those rooms that have been identified in a purchased/acquired map, but you have yet to explore) and another to represent maybe ASCII or maybe even 2d sprites for mobs and other characters.

2. Identify the over-arching area of play that is most compelling to you. Do armies make you happy? How about sitting in a square emoting? How about chasing and Pking?

The things that draw me back to this game are both the RP and PK. We have a great group of players that (when they are not acting like butts) really enrich the atmosphere and make the game so much fun to play.

Additionally I do enjoy the grind of trying to deck myself out. Given my longevity and knowledge of the game, this has grown (and I am happier for it, I think) less of a motivator, but still fun at times to look at all my sparkly pretty eq.

Cabal Army warfare I feel could/should be expanded or better developed. I will have to give this some further thought, as I unfortunately do not have any good ideas to share on this topic at this time.

3. Express if you think the size of the mud and the arrangement of the world is suitable or needs a change

I do think the arrangement is good, I envision Aabahran as a large continent that has a geological upward thrust (the Dragon Mountain), and spread out ecological. I do think we should work to make all the current areas that are left over from AR into something that fits Aabahran. A large multi-area section like Winter would be quite the undertaking, but well worth it in the end if we have something that is our own. Same with other areas like Hoan Dor, the area with the Djinni's, etc.

4. What would the ideal MUD look like to you

As I mentioned earlier, I have played on a couple of other muds, but probably not more than three-four, so my experience is limited. I am of the opinion we have a good thing going here, and we have a good base of players to build off of, but we definitely need to work to increase the number of players, as this game is designed to have 5-10 people on the vast majority of time.

5. Can you share concrete changes or new ideas that would make you happy and potentially draw new players?

I wish I had some *new* concrete ideas to share. 

[Celerity]

1. Remove Stock Areas

This should have been the first thing that happened after the MUD broke the 2000 original room barrier. We are an RP mud, and while we don't need to have a completely original universe, the content presented on the basis of that universe should be original. I'm opposed to the policy of 'reworking' stock areas to make them our own.

However, at this point, we can keep the areas that have been already been reworked (e.g. Emerald), and like @Mali suggests, close off all non-FL created areas.

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2. MUD Room Count

Our MUD is too big for the playerbase. Increasing the size of a game world doesn't mean you have increased the amount of content in that game world. We need to decide on a policy:

Do we want to:

1. Focus on the scale of content?

2. Focus on the complexity of content?

The first involves making more static quests, more static mobs, more rooms, more equipment, and so on.

The second involves getting players together and giving the tools to generate content from the first. I believe FL has a ton of scaled environmental content for its size. We have tons of rooms and objects populating our world. We don't do the second so well. NPC interaction is stock level, quests are simple, and like @Mali pointed out, there is no player toolkit for affecting the world. Most of rooms/mobs/objs are paper thin and exist in near isolation. Emergent gameplay is near non-existent (static world).

If our world were smaller, the most important change would be that people would run into each other more often. Contact means communication and interaction. We are an RP mud, so we need to incentivize players dealing with each other as much as possible. One part of this is keeping the world size balanced to the player size.

Rule of thumb for me would be active player x 100 in rooms. If we have 30 players, we need about 3000 rooms. Alternatively, if we don't know the active playerbase, we can figure our online playerbase at any time to be about 10% of the active playerbase. Building effort can be focused in improving the quality and complexity of a richer world, rather than a lesser large world.

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3. Cabal Warfare

The hard part here is coming up with a replacement. Nobody has been able to offer up a -good- replacement for the CTF gameplay or the army rework, myself included. Much like world size however, I do suggest we reduce the number of cabals to reflect player size. Having one, two, maybe three on from the same cabal is far too few for meaningful interaction. I offered a rework several years ago that addressed this issue (and the Herald problem). I've attempted an army rework, but I'm not sure I ever posted it.

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4. Emergent Toolkit

How can we make it so the players can affect the world without breaking that world? There are two major approaches that I am aware of:
 

1. MUSH style creation. This allows players to effectively use OLC and sometimes even write scripts to create content. The problem is that this is usually PvE and world consistency isn't very important (not suited for RP).

2. MMO style creation. The player grinds resources and uses them to create content. We have it with the bard crafting, but it is obviously feasible with houses, armies, or any other content you want it to be. The downside is that time = stronger, which is great for an MMO, but I think we are trying to work away from the grind, not increase it here. It also causes major issues with player rage/grief after they lose such content. Often, creations are prefab (houses are pre-designed, equipment is pre-balanced), so as not to break the balance of the game.

If you want to add player creations (pets, family, farming, crafting, spell creation, whatever it may be), you'll have to solve the problem between time and balance.

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4. Emergent World

This is system-created content, not player-created content. I once worked on a system for FL that was essentially an adaptive quest generator. The quest generator looks at who is online and other environmental conditions (item placement, land owned, whatever) to come up with a quest that fits the current environment of the game.

For example, lowbie player A is hanging around a town. They take a quest to help some underworld criminals for a profit. The system remembers this and when Tribunal player B logs on, it might spit out a quest for player B to investigate the criminal activity in the town. Simultaneously, it would issue a quest to player A to do help with something illegal in the same place. This is the emergent system.

It can also be applied to cabals, guilds, clans, and other group. You can structure guild quests, amass deed points to a faction, town reputations, and so forth and use that data to create quests for and against people who have been using the system. This might be one portion of the solution of the cabal influence problem. Cabal members might be able to create jobs/quests of varying scales that might even turn into little events. There is a lot of potential here and it is a lot safer than player-created content.

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5. Color

Personally, I don't like the overuse of color in MUDs. That said, if we use color with the policy of that it needs to help the player, then I think we will be fine. Color can help a lot with pointing out useful information, and I think that should be implemented in the base game. What I don't want to see is the player control of color or the use of color for non-utilitarian purposes (such as it being cool, neat, whatever).

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6. Rebranding

It only really does much for marketing if the brand is well-known for some reason. Since I don't think FL is well-known for good or bad, I think rebranding won't do much externally. The other purpose would be to reshape the identity of the playerbase. If you want to do this, make sure you have all those new systems ready to go, because you'll always lose a percentage of players.

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7. Cabal Ranks/Promotion

Why do we need cabal ranks?

1. Sense of progression

2. Investment rewards

If a leader didn't have any special cabal skills compared to an I, then the rank wouldn't matter. It could be decided internally by the players without any formalized structure. Which is more important? @Kyzarius believes that the progression is falsified because of inconsistency among staff. So he want to speed it up and also automate advancement. To me, the solution to the problem stated should address the inconsistency, not change the progression timer (which could also need to be changed, but that is a separate argument).

You could automate it as suggested, but the staff clearly believes that the reward granted by T, E, and L cabal ranks need to be manually judged by a staff gatekeeper, so I don't think automation is going to happen. Therefore, I still believe the better solution is reduce cabal management to one or two staff members or otherwise ensure that individual staff are not running individual cabals. This would solve the consistency issue and other problems as I outlined in my short essay on the topic.

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8. Problems

I believe the playerbase can solve just about any problem that is presented to it. Unfortunately, we have a problem where if there is a new idea (or solution), the proposer must argue both that the problem exists and the solution is the correct one. If we, staff and/or players, could come up with a list of generally-agreed upon problems, I think it would vastly simplify the work of the solvers. The solutions would be much more forthcoming (more motivation to solve a known problem, more chance your solution will be accepted) and relevant (addresses the problem directly), and the discussions would center more on the solution and less on the problem.

[Cephirus]

23 minutes ago, Celerity said:

I believe the playerbase can solve just about any problem that is presented to it. Unfortunately, we have a problem where if there is a new idea (or solution), the proposer must argue both that the problem exists and the solution is the correct one. If we, staff and/or players, could come up with a list of generally-agreed upon problems, I think it would vastly simplify the work of the solvers. The solutions would be much more forthcoming (more motivation to solve a known problem, more chance your solution will be accepted) and relevant (addresses the problem directly), and the discussions would center more on the solution and less on the problem.

Very much agree with this.

[Kyzarius]

See I do not believe there needs to be a gatekeeper to T.

What in the world would it hurt?  

As it stands you get promoted while offline, and for no apparent reason 9 times out of 10.  I have gotten to T countless times without ever speaking or seeing my cabal IMM.

Gatekeeping is a huge slow down in progression.  And saps the motivation put of the player.

 

[Celerity]

2 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

See I do not believe there needs to be a gatekeeper to T.

What in the world would it hurt?  

As it stands you get promoted while offline, and for no apparent reason 9 times out of 10.  I have gotten to T countless times without ever speaking or seeing my cabal IMM.

Gatekeeping is a huge slow down in progression.  And saps the motivation put of the player.

 

Yep, and I agree with you. 

[Izzy]

4 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

See I do not believe there needs to be a gatekeeper to T.

What in the world would it hurt?  

As it stands you get promoted while offline, and for no apparent reason 9 times out of 10.  I have gotten to T countless times without ever speaking or seeing my cabal IMM.

Gatekeeping is a huge slow down in progression.  And saps the motivation put of the player.

 

 

My issue with promotions is there is no standard way of being promoted.  I am not the best RP'r. Yet I feel like I am punished for it.  I am a construction dude.  I can't spell if my life depended on it.   So when I try to write a Good journal, I spend most of my time spell checking.  Looking through googles Dictionary for other words to use.  When I am emoting I am always shy because I don't want to misspell words and look like an idiot.  I do try to do other things well though.  I have a tough time with Smotes.  Emotes and every other type of mote.  I do try though.

[Zavero]

Everyone messes up emotes. Even Immortals who excell at it make those mistakes. I haven't forgotten Phyree, which I believe was the precursor to Suldaim. (I have no real way of knowing if they were the same). If it was you, you did well enough. Don't be discouraged to keep at it @Izzy.

[Kyzarius]

Well see we have two intrinsinc systems on the mud for competition and advancement. 

In RP we have RP points, custom items, restrings.  Rewards for creativity

While in PVP we head to head competition, gearing, min-maxing.

Those things are then combined in a weird hodgepodge of administrator preference and enforced to gain rank beyond V in a cabal.  Same goes for q-things as well, mixed standards that even with the same IMM seem different from character to character.  

So players have to be good at both to really excel AND have unreal amount of time to sit online.  Good at PK but not RP, more time.  Good at RP but not PK? More time.  

Which gets back to the center of my stance in regards to cabals's, qthings, and the mud in general.  This mud has some fun end-game content.  Remort classes.  Custom Races.  Fun abilities to use to enhance the existing classes in different ways.  A bit of mystery about what to expect which just adds to the need to unlock that next secret thing, and a competitive heart-thumping system in PVP. 

Yet it is all locked behind this time sink requirement that is 10x longer than any other thing competing for our attention, while also having strange variables like any promo past V or getting approved for an app.  This variable starts at Descriptions, and just gets worse the more you want to accomplish.  This just creates a lag in achievement.  Yeah, I want to get to V n that cabal.  But you know, I could play Final Fantasy instead of sitting online watching my prompt get old.  

I think this is why we lose people and cant retain folks.  Because if you don't have the ability to run a telnet window while doing something else, while having the patience of a saint, you cant get anywhere. 

 

 

[Izzy]

17 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

Well see we have two intrinsinc systems on the mud for competition and advancement. 

In RP we have RP points, custom items, restrings.  Rewards for creativity

While in PVP we head to head competition, gearing, min-maxing.

Those things are then combined in a weird hodgepodge of administrator preference and enforced to gain rank beyond V in a cabal.  Same goes for q-things as well, mixed standards that even with the same IMM seem different from character to character.  

So players have to be good at both to really excel AND have unreal amount of time to sit online.  Good at PK but not RP, more time.  Good at RP but not PK? More time.  

Which gets back to the center of my stance in regards to cabals's, qthings, and the mud in general.  This mud has some fun end-game content.  Remort classes.  Custom Races.  Fun abilities to use to enhance the existing classes in different ways.  A bit of mystery about what to expect which just adds to the need to unlock that next secret thing, and a competitive heart-thumping system in PVP. 

Yet it is all locked behind this time sink requirement that is 10x longer than any other thing competing for our attention, while also having strange variables like any promo past V or getting approved for an app.  This variable starts at Descriptions, and just gets worse the more you want to accomplish.  This just creates a lag in achievement.  Yeah, I want to get to V n that cabal.  But you know, I could play Final Fantasy instead of sitting online watching my prompt get old.  

I think this is why we lose people and cant retain folks.  Because if you don't have the ability to run a telnet window while doing something else, while having the patience of a saint, you cant get anywhere. 

 

 

 

 

Your not wrong.  Most of the time I am just watching Netflix, or playing (Call of Duty/Elder Scrolls Online/Battlefield)  Waiting for something to happen.

 

Though I do not think that was the point of this post and we should try to get back on topic.

 

 

[Mali]

@izzy, what do you think of the questions in the original post?

1. Name one or more mechanics that would intrigue you as a player and offer you a sense of personal satisfaction

2. Identify the over-arching area of play that is most compelling to you. Do armies make you happy? How about sitting in a square emoting? How about chasing and Pking?

3. Express if you think the size of the mud and the arrangement of the world is suitable or needs a change

4. What would the ideal MUD look like to you

5. Can you share concrete changes or new ideas that would make you happy and potentially draw new players?

I would love to hear your take.

[Izzy]

1.  I think that are lands are just way to big for what 4-5 players on at a time on average.  Though I love the areas we have, at times it just seems like no one is around.

 

2.  I love the pkill aspect of the game.  It makes me nervous and is intense when things are even between enemies.

 

3.  Ideally I would like our mud to have more players.  I love playing here, and I have played many other muds.  The mechanics here are great colour is perfect.  I personally don't like skittles.

 

4.  I truly believe there are balance issues within this game.  Its very difficult for a new player to want to play here.  The amount of learning you need to do to catch up is just insane and with armor and equipment being the most important aspect, there is just not enough info.  People will not give it up easily because it gives them an advantage, that is why few dont update the wikki.  It will make it tough for a new player to want to play here when they are getting their ass kicked.  I also believe Cabal warfare as beome a bit stale.  People are afraid to fight some of their enemies.  I watch them log off when there is someone more powerful then they are, this has to do with the fact you can lose all your stuff.

 

5.  I think we all need to pool some money together to advertise.  Yet we all need to be honest when we are advertising.  People who love to write would love this game.  People who want the rush of Pkill would love this game.  We need to weed out the down time of doing nothing.  Perhaps more interesting quests like you would find in a game like Elder Scrolls where you are part of a whole plot to gain experience and make it through your levels.  This would make the grind much more fun.  Though would be very difficult to pull off.

 

This might be a bit of a contradiction, but I miss grinding my abilities to 100%  Now it just seems very easy.  It used to make a difference when one person would put the effort in to getting their skills and spells 100%

[Pali]

The more I think about it, the more I agree that a lot of the problems really just boil down to too few players, and that increasing the playerbase should be our primary concern.  Game too big: more players fixes this.  Learning curve too steep: right now most players are already on the high end of that curve, which is the actual problem; more players of varying levels of learning and skill means new players aren't only fighting vets, but also other new players, making climbing the curve less painful and more rewarding.  Time sink too great: problem is really less the time sink, but the lack of meaningful ways to fill that time; more players means more interactions available, more opportunities to explore high-end areas, and overall just far less time spent letting the game run as your second window because it makes time in game more rewarding.  Eq creep too great: more players means eq will be spread around more, as more trips for eq are able to be made, more PK increases eq rotation through characters, and the overall higher demand will increase competition and make it harder to get a great suit together.  Consumables too strong: more players increases competition for obtaining them and makes mass farming far more difficult, and increased PK opportunities increases the need to burn consumables, again making them harder to maintain a stock of.  Even the need to speed up leveling and training comes from a lack of players spread across levels - more players means more characters at all levels, and more low-level interaction with people trained to various states, so leveling and training don't need to be sped up in the first place.

 

Just about everything I can think of that is currently an issue for FL is something that is minimized or completely negated by a sufficient playerbase.  This should definitely be our focus.

[Acele]

This thread is really big, it's hard to read everything.  Let me address something I think I can personally work on and fix.  Since I'm quick at building and enjoy it, I need you guys as players to tell me about areas in the game that are still stock, or seem too... uuhhh... "high-fantasy" or "whacky", and don't seem to jive with a unifying theme.  In The Clouds is one area I hate.  Winter could be changed.  I think the Slith city could be made over and trimmed down.  I think Haon Dor has too many rooms and silly dead-ends.  I think those weird fields north of Crystalmir are annoying and could be removed.

I think a great example of area density and content is the Halfling Hamlet.  I think every room should have a little something, unless it is an obvious road leading somewhere.  I think every area should tie in thematically with the rest of the game -- I think the importance of the three big cities should be emphasized in these areas, having references to them, or plots that are ongoing.  I think with some diligence, I could update areas to include reference to ongoing plots started by players and keep the fire stoked.

One major speed bump is balancing items.  Item balance is not in my hands at all, everything is run by Anume and Erelei.  What I can do is write room descs at blazing speed, mobs, flavor text, and do some serious world-building.  If areas without new EQ is boring to you, then it will take longer to see new content from people like me.

[Pali]

Areas don't need eq to be interesting, but they do need something to do within them - providing eq is perhaps the easiest way to justify an area's existence, but quests or other unique features can serve that purpose as well.  Consider an area that is designed specifically to be hidden in, IF you've first gained access to some sort of control panel through a questline that allows you to change room exits within the area (sealing distant doors, raising impassable thorn walls, etc.), or an area that is like a condensed Underdark where, after finishing its questline, you can access portals that are relatively close to each other that lead to various points around the game (make the area a ways off the beaten paths and the portals have a decent personal cooldown to prevent overuse in PK - it'd be the kind of thing you can run to and escape through only once during several in-game days' worth of fighting, worth earning but not too good).

[Acele]

 

@Pali

Implementation of such is even more time consuming than balancing items.  While these ideas are fantastic conceptually, and they can be done (and much more), the problem isn't necessarily our work ethic or approach.  Lower-level imms do not have rights to write progs, even if we know how, as minor syntax errors can crash the test port.  If we are developing the game with progs, we pretty much need Erelei to baby-sit to reboot that test-port when it does go down -- when we are scripting progs, it will go down.

We don't have a true "developers" environment to create complex interactive content, not like one might have testing PHP script or something.  The game is live, and when it dies, you can't do much except to back out, delete blocks of work, and re-write.  I think areas need simple progs to bring them to life... although without regular, remedial updates, these details fade into obscurity.  Seriously, how often do characters notice that Val Miran citizens are talking to them, or one another?  That life doesn't really have any presence, unless things are updated to be with the times.  I want to not only revamp old areas, but constantly freshen the content of frequently visited areas.

[Pali]

Well, I don't know jack about programming, so all I can do is give you the ideas I've got.  I do appreciate that a lot of ideas require far more work to implement than a non-coder might think they should, so I'm pretty accepting of coding issues being cited as why something would be too much work to implement meaningfully.  I'm also not looking to accuse anyone giving up their free time to staff a game without pay of laziness.  

 

I do think part of the problem with very simple scripts like the way Val Miran citizens talk to you is that they aren't interactive at all.  You walk in the room, the citizen says something, and nothing you do in return gets a response.  I think just about all of us have noticed it, but also that most of us have it effectively filtered as background noise that we don't really pay attention to because we are used to it and know it doesn't really mean anything (if I'm sitting there for RP purposes and a citizen says something I'll respond, but if I'm just moving through the city and they do?  Why bother?).  If interacting with a Val citizen worked along the lines of the emergent quest system @Celerity proposed, it'd be a very different matter.

 

There's another problem with highly complex areas that I don't have a clue how to address from a design standpoint.  I've been through Gear a number of times.  Every single time I've been led through it by someone who knows the quests, who knows the answers to the questions, how to manipulate the clocks, etc., every single time since the place was put into the game over a decade ago.  I have NEVER gone through it with a group where we actually had to try to figure it out, nor have I ever been able to get a group together willing to try to figure it out.  This, I think, is a problem - the place isn't really the riddle for players it is intended to be, but is instead just something that eventually you are led through by someone who already knows the way, and you log it so that you can look back on that log and learn the answers for later.  Maybe most people haven't experienced it this way, but my experience of Gear isn't and wasn't figuring it out, it was getting led through by people who already knew the answers.

 

I think this is not a good thing, because it means a significant chunk of an area's uniqueness has been lost on me.  This is a very tricky balancing act, as if I could go through it solo to figure it out myself, the eq would need to be weaker than it is because it'd be too easy to get - yet not being able to go through it myself means I don't try to, means I wait until someone who knows the way invites me along.  Hell, I've been here since 1.0, and I barely know my way around anywhere tougher than Steel or Magic - Dess, Dischord, and Gear aren't places I've explored, they're places I've been led through.  I REALLY liked the first two stages of the Asylum as a break from this - multiple quests that are meant to be completed alone or with a low-level group, meaning a 50 can complete them alone.  Still need someone to go through part 3 with me though.  I'd love more areas that have similar questlines and riddles to figure out... I still don't know if I let the right brother live.

 

I'm honestly not sure where I'm going with this post.  I'm a bit intoxicated at the moment, and it's largely been stream of thought.  Feel free to ignore it.  

[Ulmusdorn]

15 hours ago, Izzy said:

My issue with promotions is there is no standard way of being promoted.  I am not the best RP'r. Yet I feel like I am punished for it.  I am a construction dude.  I can't spell if my life depended on it.   So when I try to write a Good journal, I spend most of my time spell checking.  Looking through googles Dictionary for other words to use.  When I am emoting I am always shy because I don't want to misspell words and look like an idiot.  I do try to do other things well though.  I have a tough time with Smotes.  Emotes and every other type of mote.  I do try though.

 

I haven't read past this post so sorry if someone has addressed this. 

Personally, as a new Imm, I want to help people improve so if you are a very good RPer I will pull you up on spelling/grammar in journals. If you are not a great RPer then all I care about is content. Content is king. There is nothing more boring then reading about how character x is awesome, backflips, defeats entire armies alone, dive rolls and finds unsurpassed wealth by robbing a dragon with a candle, stool and a single strand of albino horse mane. Boring. 

If you need any inspiration, look at those characters who make you gasp. Who make you think what the actual f..... @Acele I'm going to pick on you. Acele is one of the most character flawed characters I've seen in a recent age. She is fraught with faults. Her temprement, her character, her motives, her speech, her addictions, her desires and goals. Because she is not this impossible character she is real, believable and powerful, What she says in 10 lines is, quite frankly, can be worth 100 lines of other things we see from other characters. Push boundaries. Don't be cookie cutter. Weakness is interesting. Conflict is interesting. 

Its also not as difficult as you think. I would implore you to consider this single thing: Don't tell me what happened and leave it. Tell me how that made you feel. Rage? Fear? How will this change your character for the future? If this is an experience worthy of a journal - then how did it change you? How are YOU affected?! Every character will react differently to a situation and take something different from that. They'll use that to develop - like real life. These characters become exceptional.

 

14 hours ago, Izzy said:

Your not wrong.  Most of the time I am just watching Netflix, or playing (Call of Duty/Elder Scrolls Online/Battlefield)  Waiting for something to happen.

Though I do not think that was the point of this post and we should try to get back on topic.

 

Out of curiosity - what are you all  - the entire playerbase - waiting for? What do you think will happen? Are you waiting for the immortals to make it all better? Are you waiting for someone else to come along and create something for you? Be it immortal or another player? What can you contribute?

What are we doing -every day as a playerbase - to improve this? Are we doing anything? Are you doing anything? If you choose to do nothing, which is absolutely fine, do not be too harsh to judge the mud if it is not gaining momentum. 

 

15 hours ago, Kyzarius said:

Yet it is all locked behind this time sink requirement that is 10x longer than any other thing competing for our attention, while also having strange variables like any promo past V or getting approved for an app.  This variable starts at Descriptions, and just gets worse the more you want to accomplish.  This just creates a lag in achievement.  Yeah, I want to get to V n that cabal.  But you know, I could play Final Fantasy instead of sitting online watching my prompt get old.  

I think this is why we lose people and cant retain folks.  Because if you don't have the ability to run a telnet window while doing something else, while having the patience of a saint, you cant get anywhere. 

 

OK so we've identified a problem. How do we fix it? Sure we can make T automatic in Cabals. Fine. You'll still be sitting at T waiting for something to happen. So what do you do then? Play FF and wait at T? 

We've identified the problem - help us identify a solution.

12 hours ago, Izzy said:

4.  I truly believe there are balance issues within this game.  Its very difficult for a new player to want to play here.  The amount of learning you need to do to catch up is just insane and with armor and equipment being the most important aspect, there is just not enough info.  People will not give it up easily because it gives them an advantage, that is why few dont update the wikki.  It will make it tough for a new player to want to play here when they are getting their ass kicked.  I also believe Cabal warfare as beome a bit stale.  People are afraid to fight some of their enemies.  I watch them log off when there is someone more powerful then they are, this has to do with the fact you can lose all your stuff.

Sure I agree. I don't have time to update the Wiki. All of the imms are currently busy with things. Some of us are on the build port. Some of us are cranking through reading forum logs and journals. Erelei is a fulltime coder - any new developments come directly from Him (how f'ing lucky are we?).

Say we give you all the items for the wiki - what will that do to help a new player? Realistically. What will it do? 

1 hour ago, Pali said:

do think part of the problem with very simple scripts like the way Val Miran citizens talk to you is that they aren't interactive at all.  You walk in the room, the citizen says something, and nothing you do in return gets a response.  I think just about all of us have noticed it, but also that most of us have it effectively filtered as background noise that we don't really pay attention to because we are used to it and know it doesn't really mean anything (if I'm sitting there for RP purposes and a citizen says something I'll respond, but if I'm just moving through the city and they do?  Why bother?).  If interacting with a Val citizen worked along the lines of the emergent quest system @Celerity proposed, it'd be a very different matter.

OLC - scripting and the triggering system for scripting only goes so far. For really interactive mobs (like you see in quests for example) are actually an incredible amount of coding. Not to mention the inspiration of fresh ideas. We only have so many imms, who are also players. We also only have 1 very very good coder. Others of us can put some stuff together but we can't rely on Erelei to do everything. He is literally one man.

11 hours ago, Pali said:

Just about everything I can think of that is currently an issue for FL is something that is minimized or completely negated by a sufficient playerbase.  This should definitely be our focus.

 

I agree @Pali - great insight. How?

 

 

I've got some other ideas. But I've got some other things to do now  I'll see what comes of this post. (I apologise for posting prematurely. This forum owns my when I'm trying to quote things.

 

[f0xx]

18 hours ago, Mali said:

4. What would the ideal MUD look like to you

It would look very much like FL. I would change very little, honestly.