Perhaps it is time to evolve

[Kyzarius]

 I did suggested a way to roll the process into the game itself. 

I see that as a problem because from a players point of view you login, you play, you logout.  Then sometime later you login and oh your promoted.  Or oh you've been cabal allowed for 3 days and didn't know it.  You don't know why or why not.  You never know if there is progress being made at all.  

So in the end what does this do for the player?  

You hint at this indepth process, but come on.  I have had to remind an Imm recently to promote/allow people who had been sitting at V for a month.  A damn month.  When I sent my note next day I login and everyone's promoted, and two people were allowed.    I was a T at the time 

Secondly none of these people knew why they were not yet promoted.  The thing that got me to send the note was a discussion with one of these people where they lamented if anyone even knew of their efforts.  

I am not judging you, I am merely pointing pit what I feel is an antiquated way of handling end game content.  And I feel it is a huge detractor from the fun of the mud. 

[Zavero]

8 minutes ago, Erelei said:

You just summed up levels 52 and 53. They are to remain visible at all times when logged in. Currently, some of them don't necessarily hug onto this rule like they should, and we're working on that.

Ah. I would offer an unsolicited suggestion, maybe make them able to go invisible when they have some general interaction ideas and visible when they don't. Often times its nice to see an odd emote like "The wind suddenly picks up around you". As a player... It makes you ponder. Offers mystique to the game. In my opinion.

It is little things that enhance the world.

[Erelei]

3 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

 I did suggested a way to roll the process into the game itself. 

I see that as a problem because from a players point of view you login, you play, you logout.  Then sometime later you login and oh your promoted.  Or oh you've been cabal allowed for 3 days and didn't know it.  You don't know why or why not.  You never know if there is progress being made at all.  

So in the end what does this do for the player?  

You hint at this indepth process, but come on.  I have had to remind an Imm recently to promote/allow people who had been sitting at V for a month.  A damn month.  When I sent my note next day I login and everyone's promoted, and two people were allowed.    I was a T at the time 

If you're talking about the cabal I think you're talking about, we were transitioning Immortals. And just an FYI, those characters who sat at V for a month really had hardly an impact on anything, and weren't missed since they hardly ever immersed themselves. I only saw you, and one other, regularly. 

3 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

Secondly none of these people knew why they were not yet promoted.  The thing that got me to send the note was a discussion with one of these people where they lamented if anyone even knew of their efforts.  

I am not judging you, I am merely pointing pit what I feel is an antiquated way of handling end game content.  And I feel it is a huge detractor from the fun of the mud. 

I don't see where we said it was ever a 'right' to know why you're not a certain rank. That's letting your OOC bleed into your IC wants. There has never been a rule where we're obligated to tell you, in game, as a player, why something happened. Certainly, we'll roleplay depending on what it is, but being promoted? A lot of the time if you ask, you wait longer. There's a reason people sit at V for extended periods. You don't have a god-given right to be Trusted at any point in your cabal career. It's a privilege bestowed upon your character when he/she is found worthy.

And you still haven't given a decent suggestion of change. I'm not automating it. It's not a good suggestion.

[Anume]

Kyz, this is bc you did exactly what we want you to do, and what you complain about so vocally that we lack: player involvement into their cabal.

As long as someone suggests and does not demand, such input is often very welcome.

Also keep in mind that the immship of said cabal was just being handed from one imm to another.

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, Zavero said:

I think you should remove the hours required for application and also the PK requirement. Some folks may never see someone in low PK range and just sitting there at level 15 to 30 waiting for someone is kind of pointless when the game is mostly played at 50. Not to mention its difficult to impossible to get a PK for some classes at 30 as where easy for others.

Edit: They could be spending this time to role play but honestly, some 50s are far too busy in PK and getting things done to sit around at central square where they are vulnerable to attack to do said role play with a level 30.

 

I would like to put this out here.  There is proof that there are times when this process is skipped.  I honestly believe if you Rp your toon, you will get what you want and the hurdles will be lifted as it happened with me.

[Fool_Hardy]

On topic:

I believe change intrigues players, for our mud to evolve in a positive way, and consequently perhaps entice some long lost brothers and sisters, we should see more evolution. Meaning, more permanent races. While it is wonderful that we have made changes to some long standing classes, we should continue to update all classes and be adding more. This is difficult because WE are the test dummies, as staff gives us new stuff it needs tweaked. We need to be less crybaby in our approach to getting things fixed. Not a flame toward anyone mind you, but if you have an issue and bring it to the pbase in an open forum post just hoping some people will support your frustration, instead of politely posting logs of broken or possibly OP things, you are only making Aabahran look bad, not the staff.

You think I lost my train of thought, me too, just kidding. We need to evolve as players and be more patient with the administration before we can even think of evolving the world to where we want it to be. We need to accept first, explore second, and provide constructive feedback third. As opposed to negative feedback first, followed by unacceptance, finished with exploration.

Magic users in general need to be made more melee oriented in todays game, either we need to choke the throttle on Melee classes, or open it on casters. Whether this means adding more defensive spell (unavoidable) damage, or an increase in number of melee defenses I do not know. They both would have negative connotations. Edit: I am not saying casters do not perform well in PVP, Perhaps this new defense should be a PVE skill. Consider it life insurance after teleport.

Diversity in game creates the greatest environment. When there are 8 people on and five cabals are represented, we know there will be action. What I enjoy is learning to fight each character. Having to learn how to fight each character is a puzzle, and therefor intrigues me. If we create new classes, we will not know how to beat them in the beginning, but eventually we solve it. And then we need to create something new. This is how we need to evolve, peacefully.

I offer myself as crash test dummy. If staff ever needs something tested PM me and I will roll it out. I for one am glad to perish for Aabahrans continued evolution.

[Mali]

Erelei, Anume, and crew, I would like to hear what your ideal FL looks like as well!

[f0xx]

17 minutes ago, Mali said:

Erelei, Anume, and crew, I would like to hear what your ideal FL looks like as well!

An FL where players just stfu and play, instead of creating walls of text on the forum

[Celerity]

Some more thoughts:

1. Low Amount of Players as the Problem

We cannot blame a lack of players for our problems.

I thought about this one at work today, and I believe @Pali is on the right track, but there might be another interpretation of what is going on. I think there are three things to consider with the playerbase:

1. Game Systems

2. Marketing

3. Community

If our game systems don't work with our playerbase size, the best thing to do would be to adapt our systems to our current size. We must do this, because if we don't, any arriving new player will see a broken game system (due to lack of players), and we will fail to keep them. You might create a technically awesome FPS, but without other players, you will get bored running circles around the map.

In contrast to @Erelei's opinion about developing PvE (or even singleplayer) systems, that is actually a very viable option. If you give players things to do, they will stay online and active doing those things. To use the same analogy, if you populate that FPS with monsters or a survival crafting system, you've got something to entice players to hang around your map until other players arrive. FL doesn't have a lot to do. You can rank, complete quests, lead armies, gather resources (gear, consumables), or free-form write (emote, notes, journal). Those are the implemented systems. Everything else hinges on other player activity.

The various commenters above are correct in that if you wait, nothing will magically happen to change the game. While you can put this on the players (do more, be more active), I think we know that approach will be ineffective. If PvP balancing is extremely difficult to design/implement, maybe the staff can be focus on the development of non-PvP game systems. Sailing, commerce, religion, family, pets, creature taming, to just name a few. There are many, many options for whatever you want to do.

Until this is addressed, marketing is largely a waste of time and money.

The size of the playerbase is not a problem. It is a measurement of success.

If we were a business, players would be our equity.

If our playerbase is low, it is a sign of other problems (probably one of three I pointed out above). The one we have the most control over are the game systems, and hoping that players will arrive to prove our game systems correct is a false path. We simply need fun things to do and refining our core fun of PvP is not going to grow the playerbase to be able to enjoy it.

--

2. Staff Overwatch

If the staff is actively communicating about player progress using a newly implemented system of information-sharing, it is just that: new. That did not exist a few years ago. It would exist as a result of Erelei's coding. In the past, it has been purely arbitrary, both in timeliness and execution.

3. Transparency

This has been coming up repeatedly, and I think there is a tension. That tension is that the staff believes they are very transparent about what they do and the players are expecting consistent benchmarks of evaluation. It is very possible that both positions are true. The staff may be very transparent, but they cannot show what they have not developed, and thus the players are not happy with staff outreach.

To solve this, both the staff and the players need a public policy that they can point to show that the evaluations are being objectively. It is that simple. It would make both parties happy.

[Mali]

49 minutes ago, f0xx said:

An FL where players just stfu and play, instead of creating walls of text on the forum

Ok, have fun playing with yourself... If you like the standard quo change nothing. I have logged in several times with 0 other players online. Technically this is a conceptual disconnect for a MUD, which is traditionally a multi-user dungeon.

[Mali]

35 minutes ago, Celerity said:

 

The size of the playerbase is not a problem. It is a measurement of success.

 

I do agree with this.

The purpose of a rebrand would be to capture players that would otherwise stray from a game where other players have a 20 year advantage. It's exciting to be the first group to a new game.

[f0xx]

1 hour ago, Mali said:

Ok, have fun playing with yourself... If you like the standard quo change nothing. I have logged in several times with 0 other players online.

I do have fun playing with myself now and then. It allows me to prepare for the time when an enemy shows up. 

Truth is, everyone whines when there are few people around, but then everyone whines when there's always an enemy around to fight.

People don't know what they want themselves, and they come here and write an thousand word essay about what others  want, suggesting some huge changes that will take years to code with a result that noone can predict.

We have a game that has been running for 16 years. If that's not a success then I don't know what it is. It's a small game yes, but that's what it's meant to be.

Now can we not just enjoy it?

Besides, if you want more players you can always invite your friends.

[Lloth]

2 minutes ago, f0xx said:

I do have fun playing with myself 

We know. All of Eastern Europe knows. You don't have to be so public with your... erhem... personal... pastimes 

[Ulmusdorn]

4 hours ago, Erelei said:

You just summed up levels 52 and 53. They are to remain visible at all times when logged in. Currently, some of them don't necessarily hug onto this rule like they should, and we're working on that.

Great thanks @Zavero now we're in the shit jks 

[Zavero]

@Ulmusdorn I'm just doing my part as a player to make your life more difficult! ;-)

[Mali]

54 minutes ago, f0xx said:

I do have fun playing with myself now and then. It allows me to prepare for the time when an enemy shows up. 

Truth is, everyone whines when there are few people around, but then everyone whines when there's always an enemy around to fight.

People don't know what they want themselves, and they come here and write an thousand word essay about what others  want, suggesting some huge changes that will take years to code with a result that noone can predict.

We have a game that has been running for 16 years. If that's not a success then I don't know what it is. It's a small game yes, but that's what it's meant to be.

Now can we not just enjoy it?

Besides, if you want more players you can always invite your friends.

I do appreciate your input. 

[Anume]

Several posts on this thread have been hidden as they do not belong on the General Forum. 
Please keep your posts respectful, disagreeing is not a problem, being rude is. Keep in mind it is not productive to attack someone or be rude, if people behave like that to you, you are less likely to actually listen to their suggestions, that is simply human nature.

[Atticus]

Got to love censorship.

Always a work around for something, learned that in my field. For everyone to be clear I got post banned because I mentioned I offered to help code for the mud and was turned down, Acele was made imm afterwards of which they had planned to before my request. I pointed out the series of events and was told I was being snarky by a fellow player. Our main coder for the mud said he was the one who made the decision who was going to code or not code. I then said well all the imms say "we only have one coder and thrown their hands up"

I offered to code, but again denied because of how the staff feels about me, and now it appears I have flamed them- or used them as a punching bag in someway. Easier to delete posts and try to collar them than let the masses see how even a god complex from a game to a forum can transfer.

I surmise it is either personal feelings that barr me from trying to help develop the game, all of which could have been done without me touching a server of theirs  <like send me snippits and I'll spend some time in a compiler>. Or there is something else going on, the zhokril and the like.

Though this post is going to get hit, one step towards loop holes and voice being heard is a freedom, that of which I'll never stop fighting for.

Salute

[Anume]

You should be happy I hid those things as they are quite embarrassing for you.

As you feel the need to keep flaming the current staff, enjoy your vacation.

Byebye. We are not your punchingbags.