f0xx Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 This was a great idea. It's been almost 4 months now without a change log though, and it's not like things are not being changed. Would it be possible for this good practice to be kept alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted December 28, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Probably not. I will try to elaborate when I have a few minutes to sit down on the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted December 28, 2016 Report Share Posted December 28, 2016 Perhaps updating the Wizlist would be a good idea as well. Nothing like seeing a nice welcome when you log in. Then you check the wizlist to see imms you've never even met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted December 30, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Alright, being I had to work today, I had some time to sit down and explain. I can't (and won't) be doing changes on a weekly basis anymore. There's far too many issues arising from it, and the current playerbase has made it very clear they'd prefer not to die to overpowered new stuff. Contrary to popular belief, I don't purposely make things overpowered for the sake of overpowering them. There's also this wonderful rumor going around (I know who started it, too. Shame on you) saying that I make a new change, roll a character affected by that change, and roll the playerbase with it. Due to playerbase demand, and to not feed into that ludicrous and ridiculous rumor, only bugs and small changes will go in. (bear in mind, I make bug fixes and minor changes nearly every single day. Unless it affects your class/race/the person who reported it, you'll likely not see the fix until we push out a change log.) Major changes will take months, if not longer, to complete and balance. I'll have a new change log up soon with bug fixes and minor changes. Don't expect them as often as this last year, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zavero Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 Perhaps I am in the minority, Erelei. It's very disappointing to hear this news. I like the new changes and don't mind having to deal with issues as they are fleshed out. I don't think it's realistic with one coder and a small staff to balance things before they are released because you cannot test every aspect. Perhaps I am the only one. This sucks in my opinion but I understand why you chose this. Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted December 30, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, Zavero said: Perhaps I am in the minority, Erelei. It's very disappointing to hear this news. I like the new changes and don't mind having to deal with issues as they are fleshed out. I don't think it's realistic with one coder and a small staff to balance things before they are released because you cannot test every aspect. Perhaps I am the only one. This sucks in my opinion but I understand why you chose this. Meh. Then we have players who offer to code, get told that we're not offering an Immortal position, and then blow up on the forum, like Atticus. I have no issues with people wanting to code. If they want to, they can tell me on Prayer on the forum, show me they can code, and then snippet code until a position becomes available for another coder to be involved. As it is now, putting two coders on one codebase would be a set back, especially if we're not very informative to each other and especially if the said person who codes doesn't respect the rest of the staff and can work with us. I've yet to see anyone of that calibre, I hate to say, who wants to code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zavero Posted December 30, 2016 Report Share Posted December 30, 2016 21 minutes ago, Erelei said: Then we have players who offer to code, get told that we're not offering an Immortal position, and then blow up on the forum, like Atticus. I have no issues with people wanting to code. If they want to, they can tell me on Prayer on the forum, show me they can code, and then snippet code until a position becomes available for another coder to be involved. As it is now, putting two coders on one codebase would be a set back, especially if we're not very informative to each other and especially if the said person who codes doesn't respect the rest of the staff and can work with us. I've yet to see anyone of that calibre, I hate to say, who wants to code. I think maybe I came across wrong. What I meant was is that this playerbase cannot expect the current immortal staff to be able to do everything they want. Some want changes fast but understand balancing may take time. Some want slow but well balanced changes. Some want fast and well balanced changes. The latter of the three doesn't make sense with the staff we have. I wasn't trying to suggest getting more staff is the answer. Simply that we as a playerbase need to curb our expectations perhaps. The reality of it sucks, but it is what it is. I personally appreciate what you and the rest of the staff do. I know others do as well. I wish there was a better answer for all involved but I understand where you are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cephirus Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 Your initial post about those weekly changes no longer happening had me worried, like you potentially saying f-it, I am done. I was very worried, but obviously that is not currently the case. I understand your reason for the change, but I will state for a matter of taking a poll, I certainly did not mind flesh out balancing of new things in a more real time. Obviously there was enough of a push back from the rest of the playerbase that in your opinion, the headache was not worth it. At this I am disappointed. I saw it as a great way to get many peoples inputs and provide logs and make the whole changes process and balancing speed up due to the numbers, but many people want their cake and to eat it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted December 31, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 This thread is merely about the documentation of changes and bug fixes and has nothing to do with your decision on whether to change things and how to change them. My plea for you is a simple one: when you change or fix something, just share it with the playerbase. I think this is a pretty fair request and a very easy step to take in order to stop those certain rumours you are speaking of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyzarius Posted December 31, 2016 Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 @Cephirus I understand very very few logs are ever submitted. Rumors shouldn't need squashing. It is such a bullshit notion anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted December 31, 2016 Implementor Report Share Posted December 31, 2016 5 hours ago, f0xx said: This thread is merely about the documentation of changes and bug fixes and has nothing to do with your decision on whether to change things and how to change them. My plea for you is a simple one: when you change or fix something, just share it with the playerbase. I think this is a pretty fair request and a very easy step to take in order to stop those certain rumours you are speaking of. I document all my changes. You just can't see them. Maybe in the future I'll let everyone see my hot fix forum, but at the moment, it's used to discuss bug changes and fixes in great detail. And I'm not going to do it just to squash the rumors that everyone is meandering about with. i don't have to prove anything to anyone. Believe the rumors or not - your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted January 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 I'm sorry I have to say this, but your attitude towards the playerbase is pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddmann Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 In all honesty, the playerbase's attitude towards him has been pretty bad as of late as well.. How much slak is someone suppose to take before they begin to fire back? As to the change logs, i will say there was a while that they were plugged seemingly once a month at least, and it has seemed to slack off. I as well understand that people have lives and not everyone remembers everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 I have much respect for Erelei/Morl and the work he has done here. However, evidenced by recent posting, it would appear he is burned out and not happy in this position. Maybe take a break or vacation if you can and come back strong, or step down with the good memories before they turn to bad ones. I seldom agree with Foxx, but I do on this point. Your attitude has changed recently and it is not to the benefit of the mud, or seemingly yourself. Take care of things my friend and then put your best foot forward in life and in all things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotspring monkey Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 I have bonner for @Erelei too. I like you. No gay stuff. Happy NY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool_Hardy Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 I like most of what I see coming down the pipe. Fresh new ideas flowing at a steady rate. Yes there are some eddies to deal with as the current changes. Yes we have to alter our course in order to reach our destinations. However, these alterations have not been game killers. What I do find to be a game killing factor, is consistent and regular attacks on the operator because we are unsatisfied with the quality control. Instead of bringing production to a grinding halt, lets look at how we can engineer better quality onto our product. Maybe we need to alter our procedures, perhaps we need to verify that the operator has the proper support. The last thing we should do, is move a qualified and well trained operator out of their position when we do not have a qualified candidate to replace them. E is doing fine work, yes he makes a mistake once in a while. The truth in business is this, the ONLY man not making mistakes, is the man NOT doing anything. Keep on making the doughnuts E, most of us will keep buying them. We trust you to dust off those nasty sprinkles and squeeze out that nasty filling so we maintain those perfectly plain doughnuts that everyone can enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted January 1, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 9 hours ago, f0xx said: I'm sorry I have to say this, but your attitude towards the playerbase is pretty bad. How is it bad? I answered you and trick and celerity and Mali - I'm not opening up my hotfix forum just to squash a rumor. How is that bad attitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mali Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 Hey Erelei I have no idea what rumors are going around as I am disconnected from this community aside from the posts here. My suggestion comes from a place of love. You represent "the company" here and it does seem like you have some resentments or are not having fun doing what you do. Sometimes we need to shift focus and see things from a different perspective in order to appreciate what they are and our role with them. You are not under attack by me. My best, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted January 1, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 14 minutes ago, Mali said: Hey Erelei I have no idea what rumors are going around as I am disconnected from this community aside from the posts here. My suggestion comes from a place of love. You represent "the company" here and it does seem like you have some resentments or are not having fun doing what you do. Sometimes we need to shift focus and see things from a different perspective in order to appreciate what they are and our role with them. You are not under attack by me. My best, I never said you were attacking me. When a change goes out affecting a specific class they get a change to that class in game. Eventually it's put out in a change log. The hot fixes I mentioned have too much information in them to be considered playerbase eye-worthy. How am at all being rude by saying "no" in the nicest way I can? Should I just say no and not explain why? you guys continue to say "you're not fit" "you hate fl now" "you're too sour" I'm none of the above except sour with how the playerbase is trying to paint me at this very moment (need a break, need to back up and let someone else code, etc) the stuff I do is absolutely thankless. I understood this jumping in. I also had a different attitude about how to do things before, until I was out at the helm of player abuse in game when speaking to players regarding bugs, them breaking rules, or me trying to fix things to better their play time. If that's bleeding through here on the forum, then say something. Just because you disagree with me does not mean I am being rude to the playerbase or am being mean to one particular person. I agree a lot on Celeritys changes she posts, but should I disagree with one where everyone else agrees - I get shit on. Enough is enough. I have the right to disagree and decide not to do things, as much as I have a right to do things suggested by the playerbase. I've always had an open mind. I always explain why not if I see a change I disagree with, and I usually ALWAYS add something (in short order mind you) that I AGREE with. So stop. All of you. This game is going no where. I have no intention of dropping it and moving on. I have no intention on giving the coding saddle to someone else. I've always been here for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 12 minutes ago, Erelei said: Enough is enough. I have the right to disagree and decide not to do things, as much as I have a right to do things suggested by the playerbase. I've always had an open mind. I always explain why not if I see a change I disagree with, and I usually ALWAYS add something (in short order mind you) that I AGREE with. So stop. All of you. This game is going no where. I have no intention of dropping it and moving on. I have no intention on giving the coding saddle to someone else. I've always been here for the long haul. I am glad to hear this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killfiend Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Mali said: I have much respect for Erelei/Morl and the work he has done here. However, evidenced by recent posting, it would appear he is burned out and not happy in this position. Maybe take a break or vacation if you can and come back strong, or step down with the good memories before they turn to bad ones. I seldom agree with Foxx, but I do on this point. Your attitude has changed recently and it is not to the benefit of the mud, or seemingly yourself. Take care of things my friend and then put your best foot forward in life and in all things. Yeah his attitude has changed a lot lately. But, seriously, do you blame him? He and some of the other Imms take so much shit from the players here. I would do just the same. Players here take advantage of their freedom of speech and it is pitiful. I for one. Will not be rolling another toon for a long time when my current has died off. Why? Because I cannot stand the toxic society that this forum has turned into. I hate it. Every post turns into an argument. A lot of people flame the staff. Don't even deny this. Its pathetic. People say they have respect for the Imms that take personal time to keep this all going. But all I EVER see is whining and bitching. Nothing is ever civil. And until things relax a little and people start understanding the immense amount of stress that is on those that make this place happen, I will not be a part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted January 1, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 Please don't stop playing. You can easily enough not use the forum. We appreciate everyone here believe it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotspring monkey Posted January 1, 2017 Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 I won't stop playing. I have bonner for FL. Sorry people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f0xx Posted January 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Erelei said: I answered you and trick and celerity and Mali - I'm not opening up my hotfix forum just to squash a rumor. How did you get the idea that I want you to open your hotfix forum for whatever reason? I asked for a simple change log. How did this become yet another "me vs the ungrateful playerbase" thread is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Implementor Erelei Posted January 1, 2017 Implementor Report Share Posted January 1, 2017 It didn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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