Zazantix Channeler Temp vs Genpei Feral Ninja Gladiator.

[Fool_Hardy]

You disqualified my advice on the other post but here I will offer it. There was a no disarm fiery staff in the blissful falls that you might find serves you better.

[Zavero]

32 minutes ago, Kyzarius said:

@Izzy you should post these on prayer btw.  With your personal analysis noted.  You don't need to farm opinions just provide data. 

Agreed. If you do not want the public opinion on the matter then do not post on the public log forum. Posting on prayer will save you all this drama.

[Izzy]

Everyone can say what they like.  I for one am open to it.  I just was doing what was asked of me.

[Celerity]

Somebody said something about rogue damage output being too high.

Rogues, by design, should have the highest burst (melee) damage output in the game. The difference between a rogue and a full melee is not in DPS, but in how much DPS you take in return. A rogue can certainly dish it out, but they can't take it back. So, rogues do and should dish it out better to compensate.

Warriors are consistent. Rogues are not. A melee will thus consistently outperform a rogue in difficult or straight-up melee situations. But a rogue should be able to outperform a melee in unconventional situations, and they certainly do. Ferals add another level of melee performance on top of it all, but like rogues, they can't take it nearly as well as they dish it.

[sarcon]

Feral's have always been borderline broken. Now that you have a class that is still kinda broken combined with a race that is broken, you have a perfect combination of OP brokenness. Take that broken dynamic and put it into any decent players hand and your good to go. A feral ninja with pugil is the deadliest combination possible.  

[Chesta6384]

There are no op races only op players.   I for one know I would beat that feral with your cleric.   If you haven't figured out the efuzans balls ask around.  Your cure spell isn't the only heal around.  Get the healing ring.  Stock a few nymph hearts.  Use them only when necessary.  Catch sleep ticks.   Don't spam age.  Use protection evil if he is evil.  T will help but won't be a win button.   The damage you took from him is nothing.   Fight a mino warrior or neutral ogre and then complain about damage.  Don't use a staff.  If I recall ninjas don't know mace but don't quote me.   Shield /mace is better IMO.   Don't bother with minister if he seems to have high saves.   Get some paths in.  Staying in combat furied is getting you killed.  

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, Chesta6384 said:

There are no op races only op players.   I for one know I would beat that feral with your cleric.   If you haven't figured out the efuzans balls ask around.  Your cure spell isn't the only heal around.  Get the healing ring.  Stock a few nymph hearts.  Use them only when necessary.  Catch sleep ticks.   Don't spam age.  Use protection evil if he is evil.  T will help but won't be a win button.   The damage you took from him is nothing.   Fight a mino warrior or neutral ogre and then complain about damage.  Don't use a staff.  If I recall ninjas don't know mace but don't quote me.   Shield /mace is better IMO.   Don't bother with minister if he seems to have high saves.   Get some paths in.  Staying in combat furied is getting you killed.  

 

Sounds like I have to be perfect to win......Yet he can make mistakes.

 

 

Go Figure.

[ajwetton]

I had a much longer response but my browser screwed me and erased it, but long of the short of it is that YES its an uphill battle, but while ferals may or may not be in need of looking at but I doubt it. You're not playing a cleric like its supposed to be, unless theres logs you have that you haven't posted that are more than 5 rounds. The damage you took wasn't unbearable but you're apparently looking for quick kills as a cleric and it just won't ever happen. Just read any other log by a cleric who lands a kill, its long drawn out and you seem really impatient with this class. Even though there might be a slight imbalance with ninjas atm, that i'm not sure of but i know its a possibility, there a multitude of things you could do to improve your chances but you're seeming just wanting to cry foul with race/class imbalances. 

[f0xx]

Here are some typical melee rounds of Chesta's cleric against my ogre warrior in Gladiator:

 

Quote

Rangoku: [===|===|===|---]
(1103/1525hp 283/473m 484/485mv)
Rapacialant narrows his eyes.
Your torrent LACERATES Rapacialant!
You spot an opening for a disarm!
You fail to disarm Rapacialant.
Your hunger MUTILATES Rapacialant!
Your torrent MUTILATES Rapacialant!
Rapacialant's steel shards maim you!
With an ominous roar the Storm Forger gathers power from the storm building around it!
You create a cube of water.
Your deluge of water wounds Rapacialant.
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.
You dual parry Rapacialant's attack.
Your hilt smash misses Rapacialant.
You block Rapacialant's attack and attempt to strike at the brief opening.
Your riposte decimates Rapacialant!
You block Rapacialant's attack and attempt to strike at the brief opening.
Your riposte decimates Rapacialant!
You feel an ancient sceptre adorned with a glowing ember drawing your life away.
Rapacialant's life drain scratches you.
An ancient sceptre adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.
Rapacialant's flaming bite grazes you.
A necklace of interlinking spirals glimmers with a divine intensity.

 

Quote

(1522/1570hp 281/468m 472/485mv)
You fire from a warforged shortbow and hit Rapacialant with a couple shots.
A warforged shortbow's arrows miss Rapacialant.
Rapacialant parries your attack.
Your hunger LACERATES Rapacialant!
Your fury LACERATES Rapacialant!
You spot a lucrative opportunity!
Your groin kick misses Rapacialant.
Your fury MUTILATES Rapacialant!
Rapacialant blocks your attack with his shield.
Rapacialant's steel shards decimate you!
Rapacialant has some small wounds and bruises. 

 

Quote

(1497/1570hp 281/468m 472/485mv)
Your fury LACERATES Rapacialant!
Rapacialant parries your attack.
Your hunger LACERATES Rapacialant!
Rapacialant's flesh is seared by the flaming the Master Forgeman's Great Hammer adorned with a glowing ember adorned with a glowing ember.
Your flaming bite misses Rapacialant.
Rapacialant's steel shards wound you.
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.
You parry Rapacialant's attack.
You feel an ancient sceptre adorned with a glowing ember drawing your life away.
Rapacialant's life drain grazes you.
An ancient sceptre adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.
Rapacialant's flaming bite injures you.
Rapacialant has quite a few wounds. 

 

Quote

(1415/1570hp 209/468m 467/485mv)
Someone narrows his eyes.
You yell 'hhEhlp szsoOoMmMeOnNne iZSs atTaocking mE!'
You fire from a warforged shortbow and hit someone with no shots.
Rapacialant fades into existence.
A warforged shortbow's arrows miss Rapacialant.
Your fury LACERATES Rapacialant!
You spot a lucrative opportunity!
Your groin kick mauls Rapacialant.
Your hunger LACERATES Rapacialant!
Rapacialant blocks your attack with his shield.
Rapacialant parries your attack.
Rapacialant's steel shards devastate you!
Rapacialant has some small wounds and bruises. 

 

Quote

(1266/1570hp 201/468m 467/485mv)
You execute the 'Troll Scourge'.
Your armor pierce MASSACRES Rapacialant!
Your fury MUTILATES Rapacialant!
Rapacialant blocks your attack with his shield.
Rapacialant parries your attack.
You catch Rapacialant looking down!
Rapacialant is blinded by the dirt in his eyes!
Your kicked dirt grazes Rapacialant.
Rapacialant parries your attack.
Your fury LACERATES Rapacialant!
Rapacialant's steel shards decimate you!
You feel a rush of endorphins, numbing your pain.
Rapacialant's crush maims you!
You feel an ancient sceptre adorned with a glowing ember drawing your life away.
Rapacialant's life drain hits you.
An ancient sceptre adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.
Rapacialant's flaming bite grazes you.

 

Quote

(760/1570hp 208/468m 468/485mv)
You fire from a warforged shortbow and hit Rapacialant with a couple shots.
A warforged shortbow's arrows miss Rapacialant.
Your fury MUTILATES Rapacialant!
Your hunger LACERATES Rapacialant!
Your fury LACERATES Rapacialant!
You spot a lucrative opportunity!
Your groin kick MUTILATES Rapacialant!
The Meat Kleefer adorned with a razor crystal adorned with a razor crystal digs into Rapacialant's body.
Your wrath mauls Rapacialant.
You dodge Rapacialant's attack.
You feel an ancient sceptre adorned with a glowing ember drawing your life away.
Rapacialant's life drain decimates you!
An ancient sceptre adorned with a glowing ember sears your flesh with flames.
Rapacialant's flaming bite hits you.
The Torso and Arms of Adeptus 'ZGRRTS'!
The Torso and Arms of Adeptus punch wounds you.

 

Despite those melee rounds you see, Chesta still had the upper hand in our fights, 90% of the time, and had forced this particular character of mine to log off more than anyone else.

So yeah, what you show us in your log is nothing special really.

You should also keep in mind that Genpei's damage will go up, and quite a bit too, once he gets T.

[Ulmusdorn]

We've spoken about this with Suldaim too.

Why the hell are you opening with Age? Thats a god awful spell unless you get VERY VERY LUCKY! He lost the ability to picklocks wooo... Unfortunately for you he still retains the ability to bash your face in.

Honestly man, forget opening with minister or age. He engages and misses  the first fury. That should of been an automatic 2 round blast with path or a dispel and path attempt (if dispel works you get a great path in) he is lagged for two rounds! 

Instead you're looking for attrition combat when you should be pushing for damage? When he hits fury then you should be pushing attrition spells (if you want to stay in combat) or you should be fleeing and looking at getting the heals in. That Shadowy woods area around your cabal is a PAIN IN THE ASS as all the rooms are the same name. Easiest healing area. You can also just slip into emerald and back out. I can't remember if you're a drow - do you have auto sneak? #livingthedream

 

 I can't remember the effect of your holy hands, but they really help throwing out random spells that can turn a fight. 

 

@f0xx comparing and ogre and a feral vs a cleric is just ridiculous you can guarantee a dispel on an ogre in comparison to a feral. All of your spells do more damage... Etc. Its a completely different fight.

[f0xx]

28 minutes ago, Ulmusdorn said:

 

@f0xx comparing and ogre and a feral vs a cleric is just ridiculous you can guarantee a dispel on an ogre in comparison to a feral. All of your spells do more damage... Etc. Its a completely different fight.

Ulmy, you completely missed the point of my post again. Read Chesta' remark, then read my post.

As for dispelling a gladiator, that's a bad advise on its own.

[English lad]

Well 4 rounds is a lot longer than I can stay in combat as a cleric against most of my opponents - I'm not sure why you seem stuck on the idea that you should be able to tank a melee focused class and win.

Open with path - so you don't get hit by an extra attacks by opening with a non damaging spell.  You NEED to be getting Calm off against Melees.  I've said this on a number of your threads - you really shouldn't underestimate the impact this will have - Curse + Calm will have a huge impact on how much he hits through your defences.

You have unblockable fire damage going on - you will out sustain him every time if you play it right.  Clerics are a sustain based class - you aren't going to get better results if you keep trying to facetank.  Don't let him stack multiple furies, just flee off after the 1st one lands and get a couple of cure crits in, then spam path waiting for him to chase you down, so you get the jump.

Path to engage, go for curse / calm - letting your passive damage work for you.  Flee off when fury lands - keep moving, cure crit as necessary - rinse repeat.  If you can catch the odd tick sleeping this will have a huge impact.

You can easily manage this approach without getting in to much trouble as long as you fight in a reasonably open zone.  4 or 5 repeats of this technique should see him sub 50% hp just from the path + fireshield damage - with Curse and Calm on him.  That is the time to start going offensive with Path.

[Ulmusdorn]

7 minutes ago, English lad said:

facetank

That made me laugh out loud at work.

[Pali]

In fairness, @Ulmusdorn, his first age knocked off third attack - it may not be the ideal opener, but this one was a lucky one.  Else he'd likely have been hit harder.  

[Chesta6384]

9 hours ago, Izzy said:

Sounds like I have to be perfect to win......Yet he can make mistakes.

 

 

Go Figure.

That's what puts you over the edge.   The most valuable part of this game is speed.  Chasing and running.   Learning the entire map.   It's tough but is an untouchable part of pk.  Yes he can make more mistakes than you but look at it from an ogre fighting a shaman.   Every combo has its harder fights.  Learn to be perfect.  Also a suggestion...never open combat with a two round lag spell.  In my experience I rarely used age. ..rarely.  open with damage or minister but preferably path.  

[Ulmusdorn]

13 minutes ago, Pali said:

In fairness, @Ulmusdorn, his first age knocked off third attack - it may not be the ideal opener, but this one was a lucky one.  Else he'd likely have been hit harder.  

So he got lucky once. Having read Suldaim's log this is a trend that Izzy needs to break. Age is a terrible opener as Chesta said. 

Save it for the middle of the fight when the rouge doesn't have all the cards and advantage. He needs to wear him down to 50%ish first.

[Kyzarius]

4 hours ago, Ulmusdorn said:

We've spoken about this with Suldaim too.

Why the hell are you opening with Age? Thats a god awful spell unless you get VERY VERY LUCKY! He lost the ability to picklocks wooo... Unfortunately for you he still retains the ability to bash your face in.

Honestly man, forget opening with minister or age. He engages and misses  the first fury. That should of been an automatic 2 round blast with path or a dispel and path attempt (if dispel works you get a great path in) he is lagged for two rounds! 

Instead you're looking for attrition combat when you should be pushing for damage? When he hits fury then you should be pushing attrition spells (if you want to stay in combat) or you should be fleeing and looking at getting the heals in. That Shadowy woods area around your cabal is a PAIN IN THE ASS as all the rooms are the same name. Easiest healing area. You can also just slip into emerald and back out. I can't remember if you're a drow - do you have auto sneak? #livingthedream

 

 I can't remember the effect of your holy hands, but they really help throwing out random spells that can turn a fight. 

 

@f0xx comparing and ogre and a feral vs a cleric is just ridiculous you can guarantee a dispel on an ogre in comparison to a feral. All of your spells do more damage... Etc. Its a completely different fight.

the point of Age isnt the forgetting of spells/skills.

It is the hit to AC, the hit to combat effectiveness, and the +10 saves.   It is a guaranteed +10 to saves....

Now why he does it more than once is odd...

His holy hands actually HELPS a gladiator as they will only cure him of mal's.

Minister stops ALL mana regen for 8 tics when it lands, which makes it hard for the glad to sleep since he has to reset stance every-time.  Then if it does hit it lags them for 4 rounds.  

 

If anything he should be hitting with age, then fleeing immediately to recover.  He gets to deep.  Around 60% hp should be flee and heal.  Hit and run.  Move over an area and come back.

 

Suggesting him not to use his guaranteed never miss debuff spell though....meh..thats not the best advice imo. 

[Celerity]

I agree with Kyzarius on this one. His post is great advice. 

[Izzy]

I start with age to slow him down.  It stops him from actually hitting me so much.  Had I not aged him.  I would have gotten drilled.  I cant use holy hands because my holy hands removes my spells.  Its a dispel that comes out.  I used it twice because someone suggested I use it twice.  So thats what I have been doing.  

 

Now I try to use other things like minister curse after to get the fight going hopefully land some things.  Yet nothing seemed to land.  Really I was just getting drilled and new the fight was going to be insanely tough.

 

I did run from the fight.  I tried to heal twice, lost my concentration twice.  Then ate a teleport pill as the attrition game is seriously tough vs a Feral.  Loosing my concentration is a waste of an attack or heal.  Add in he is a gladiator.  Lets say I land a path, he gets plagued/poisoned/  He just eats a liver and is fine.  Me getting drilled like that, add in loosing my concentration, makes for a recipe to die.  I could have re-engaged, yet the same thing would have happened.  I would have gotten drilled some more.  Been furried.  Right back where I started.

[English lad]

Been so long since i played a Savant i'd forgotten the + 10 Svs - so yeah, I still stick with my approach of open with Path, then go into a debuff, then flee when fury lands - rinse repeat.  But I'd probably go for age, Calm, Minister then Curse. Perhaps drop Calm if you can handle their damage output - but in a fight like this you need it.

Age will make the others land.  Calm will dramatically decrease how much damage he takes.  You never want to land curse to soon unless you can guarantee they will be staying around, but if you do this, running and curing where necessary, you should eventually end up with them sub 50%, Aged, Calmed, Cursed - and then you can start going to town with Path.

[Izzy]

Another point I think everyone forgets is I do, do all this.  Just seems like nothing lands.  In my fights with other Race/Class they get the works.  I am sure you can speak to whomever plays Rygar/Yao.  They hit me hard as well, but no where near as hard or as often as any feral I ever faced.

 

I am just a little discouraged is all.  I will get over it.

[Celerity]

Don't undervalue making him expend cps to cure your mals. The costs really add up for him over time.

Don't get too hung up on curse/calm. Go ahead and attempt them, but you can easily waste a lot of rounds losing concentration/failing with little to show for it. Path is your damage and your main source of mals. Path is the killer.

[Lloth]

Path is love.
Path is life.

[Chesta6384]

In my experience, if you find it hard to land mals just go for pure damage.   As for path poison/plague if anything u make him eat consumables.   It's more about the damage anyways.

[Celerity]

This doesn't deserve its own thread, but you think you have it rough? This is me early in the career as a new Knight, check out the VIP who list:
 

<1002hp 952m 464mv 19701>
/---------------\/----------------------------------------------\
| Anamus        || Squire of KNIGHT                             |
\---------------/\----------------------------------------------/
| Str: 21(21)   || Level: 50 Sex: M      Age  : 284(75h)        |
| Int: 18(18)   || Class: cleric         Ethos: chaotic         |
| Wis: 21(21)^1 || Race : dwarf          Align: good            |
| Dex: 18(18)^1 || Hp   : 1002/1002      Exp  : 19701/520499    |
| Con: 25(25)^1 || Mana :  952/1196                             |
\ Lck: [|||||-] \/ Move :  464/464       +Hit: 18   +Dam: 22    /
/---------------/\------------------/\--------------------------\
|    ARMOR      ||      SAVES       || Deity : Koevhar          |
| Slash :  -293 || Spell      : -21 || Faith : Compassion       |
| Pierce:  -289 || Afflictive : -7  || Weight: 203/425          |
| Blunt :  -285 || Maledictive: -20 || Items : 31/35            |
| Magic :  -269 || Mental     : -18 || Prac  : 23    Train: 3   |
|               ||                  || Gold  : 131k  CP: 1.1k   |
\---------------\/------------------\/--------------------------/
/ Condition: You are in the prime of your health.               \
| 4 more hours must pass before a cabal promotion.              |
| [KNIGHT] forces are aiding your healing.                      |
\---------------------------------------------------------------/

<1002hp 952m 464mv 19701> sl
who
You go to sleep.

<1002hp 952m 464mv 19701> [50 Dwarf Cle] <PK> [KNIGHT] (Hope [V]) Anamus the Will of Gods
[   Ogre     ] <PK> [NEXUS] Thulgan Resh'hal the Master of War
[   Drow     ] <PK> Myrtaal the Unholy Knight
[   Drow     ] <PK> [SAVANT] Sepahoona BoneSeer the Will of Gods
Players matched: 4
There are 4 characters on, the most on since startup was 44.
The title of Master Questor of Aabahran is currently held by Thulgan.
There are 1 contracts available to you.

 

--

 

Back then , I spent half of my time running away from Myrtaal (and if you know the player, you know that he is an awesome finisher---this is the guy that ran down Kaylia and caused me to mobdeath with a battlemage. Thulgan and Sepahoona were kicking my butt all over the place. I even complained in prayer about good v evil clerics (about Sepahoona), but I stuck with it and I learned I was wrong, got better, and grew into the character/class's potential. If I can do it, you can do it too.