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So Disgusted with toons with no class.


Izzy

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It happens time and time again.  Your caballed its 2 on 1 and you got the 2 people going after the standard.  Yeah your job is to defend.  So if someone attacks your halls your going to try and defend.  Its so sickening.  Classy thing to do is one attacks 1 defends the end.  You do not attack in tandem.  Taking a standard is stripping your opponent of his cabal powers.  Hindering the one who is outnumbered even warn the outnumbered enemy that you will be switching, make sure he/she has had time to heal.  So disgusting.  There are so many other things to do.  Claim som lands.  Even watch.  Take turns attacking and defending.  Make sure there was time to heal so both people get a chance to fight the one out numbered.  Also a TRUSTED or above member of a cabal should never allow his underling to attack if the Trusted/Elder/Leader is the one trying to claim the item.  The underling should be directed by the Trusted or above member to either defend or attack.

 

Thats my rant.  I will never do it unless I KNOW the foe will quit the lands.  Then it's a rush to gain the item.

 

Puke city.  Be proud.  I killed someone because my enemy was outnumbered.  Fighting different opponents takes different setups.

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6 minutes ago, Izzy said:

It happens time and time again.  Your caballed its 2 on 1 and you got the 2 people going after the standard.  Yeah your job is to defend.  So if someone attacks your halls your going to try and defend.  Its so sickening.  Classy thing to do is one attacks 1 defends the end.  You do not attack in tandem.  Taking a standard is stripping your opponent of his cabal powers.  Hindering the one who is outnumbered even warn the outnumbered enemy that you will be switching, make sure he/she has had time to heal.  So disgusting.  There are so many other things to do.  Claim som lands.  Even watch.  Take turns attacking and defending.  Make sure there was time to heal so both people get a chance to fight the one out numbered.  Also a TRUSTED or above member of a cabal should never allow his underling to attack if the Trusted/Elder/Leader is the one trying to claim the item.  The underling should be directed by the Trusted or above member to either defend or attack.

 

Thats my rant.  I will never do it unless I KNOW the foe will quit the lands.  Then it's a rush to gain the item.

 

Puke city.  Be proud.  I killed someone because my enemy was outnumbered.  Fighting different opponents takes different setups.

 

We all know the feeling. Not much can be done considering tagging and double teaming is allowed. You are also giving 'people' way too much credit who are behind these toons. Some vets have had enough kills and victories to not need to be so unclassy, while any noobs or tier 2 vets might still need that victory feeling.. that., I won this fight and feel amazing feeling or whatever it is. Maybe they lost their last 3 fights or 6 fights and just need one W to feel accomplished or something, who knows. Maybe they are just balls to the walls reckless and don't give a shizzit. 

I never expect anyone to be classy, however, every now and then you witness it and get a new found respect for that toon. I know it sucks, not the greatest feeling but hey, even in real life during mid-evil times, outnumbering your opponent was a regular occurrence. There was no time for "Hey, can I just take you folks one at a time?". I bet your ass if two french soldiers stumbled upon one loan British soldier, there will be blood! Or if two Americans soldiers saw one german sniper, you bet your ass they are going to gandam style his ass with grenades. You also have to realize many people are spamming who/where/who/where/whopk/where/sc/gr/ and then poof an enemy comes. Like a bull ready to explode and your wearing red son. 

Lick your wounds, dry your eyes and get your revenge. That is the best way to solve any problem. Full loot their face and keep the cycle going. Unless you go zen style and even though your upset, kill them and leave their things to set an example, up to you. This reminds me of the good old days with Osyn, tagging and double teaming was a regular occurrence on the grossest level. http://theforsakenlands.com/community/index.php?/topic/38663-osyn-druid-savant-v-vs-kelmi-wm-thief-viscan-nexus-ranger-kuhng-wm-t-monk-bloog-wm-t-ranger/

 

 

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You mean... like you and the druid would do, when you played Suldaim?

I'm not saying any side is right or wrong. It's not against the rules at all... so it's not like they should be getting a punishment, but it also leads to the victim feeling helpless and quitting before they have time to develop into a challenge. If you're cleaning your enemy's clock, it's just being a douchecanoe. But if the advantage is needed... not as much.

:shrug: Probably not the best place to bring the gripe, though. I would suggest prayer, since this is pretty flame-baity.

Oh, and I'm not trying to insinuate that you or the druid did anything wrong either, I enjoyed it still. Just meant to illustrate my point that there are times when its going to happen, and in those times its better to set things down, walk away, and figure it out later.

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1 minute ago, Enethier said:

You mean... like you and the druid would do, when you played Suldaim?

I'm not saying any side is right or wrong. It's not against the rules at all... so it's not like they are , but it also leads to the victim feeling helpless and quitting before they have time to develop into a challenge. If you're cleaning your enemy's clock, it's just being a douchecanoe. But if the advantage is needed... not as much.

:shrug: Probably not the best place to bring the gripe, though. I would suggest prayer, since this is pretty flame-baity.

 

We were policed from day 1 regarding any type of double teaming or tagging, moreso than others because we killed a minotaur warrior by accident, not properly communicating our assaults well. But by no means, did we tag or double team, and if we did by accident (happened twice in 2 months) we got summoned ASAP by immortals. One attacked, one defend, period. Feel free to post logs if you fee indifferent instead of talking smack. 

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Easy, tigers, I'm not saying you guys were these big teamsters just trashing up the PK game. You guys did inadvertently tag me once, but after I got away, you figured it out and corrected.

I was talking more about my loooooong fights with Suldaim with no cabal powers cause you'd be getting my standard.

I've never once held you guys in any less regard for it, and that's all I am trying to suggest here. If you feel, Izzy, like somebody's doing it to be a jerk, bring it up to prayer. If not, then they're probably just doing it because either they need to (big compliment to your character, then) or because they feel they have to because of how seriously they take the cabal part of their RP.

I think it's a little unfair to post borderline flamebait over something like a hard cabal fight. Take some time, cool down, come back to the forums when anxiety, adrenaline, and frustration aren't going to make you lash out in a way you'll feel bad about later.

I used to get the same way, trust me. I was probably even kami's inspiration... (lol! just teasing the guy.) Game's a whole lot more enjoyable when I let stuff like this go.

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We never went to go get your standard in tandem.  1 got it the other defended.

 

We also alternated who was attacking who was defending.  We made sure time had passed.  Also with Reverse time, it almost forced us to never be able to strike at the same time as one of us was waiting for the spell to run its course.  Its okay though.  I understand.  OMG I wanna kill.  GO GET IT.  RAARRR

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Yeah, your experience must be different than mine, Enethier. I fought both of them as I was in a cabal that was at war with them. Never had an issue with those two. We had multiple 3vs3, 3vs1 or 2... Etc. 

Attacking in tandem happens. If I do it is purely accidental or the player was asking for it by attacking multiple people. In the cabal I am in now it is always somehow decides who does what.

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39 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

It happens time and time again.  Your caballed its 2 on 1 and you got the 2 people going after the standard.  Yeah your job is to defend.  So if someone attacks your halls your going to try and defend.  Its so sickening.  Classy thing to do is one attacks 1 defends the end.  You do not attack in tandem.  

Attacking cabals in groups has always been done and is not against the rules. By itself, it's not tagging either. If you turn up to defend and both attackers attack you and pursue you away from the cabal guard, it is a tag-team or a gang (which I personally don't like, but it isn't against the rules either). Cabal life is meant to be tough, taking or retrieving standards is not the same as a pre-arranged Warmaster duel with rules and everyone fully prepared.

Taking a standard is stripping your opponent of his cabal powers.  Hindering the one who is outnumbered even warn the outnumbered enemy that you will be switching, make sure he/she has had time to heal.  So disgusting.  There are so many other things to do.  Claim som lands.  Even watch.  Take turns attacking and defending.  Make sure there was time to heal so both people get a chance to fight the one out numbered.  

It is perfectly acceptable for one person to attack the cabal while the other person fights the defender (ideally away from the cabal somewhere). There is no reason why, in a 2 on 1 situation, one of the caballed parties just has to sit there and watch. My personal preference is to keep PK 1 on 1, but one party killing the cabal guard and one party engaging the defender is not a tag-team, gang or whatever else - sure it makes it harder on the lone defender, but that's part of life when you are in a cabal and outnumbered by your enemies.

Also a TRUSTED or above member of a cabal should never allow his underling to attack if the Trusted/Elder/Leader is the one trying to claim the item.  The underling should be directed by the Trusted or above member to either defend or attack.

This is a personal RP matter, or a matter to be dealt with by the relevant cabal immortal. As I said above, it is not breaking any rules - whether or not the cabal immortal approves of it or not is another matter.

Thats my rant.  I will never do it unless I KNOW the foe will quit the lands.  Then it's a rush to gain the item.

This is an admirable position.

Puke city.  Be proud.  I killed someone because my enemy was outnumbered.  Fighting different opponents takes different setups.

Choosing your set-up for enemies is part of the uncertainty. If you are set up for a warrior and a mage attacks you, you often need to flee and re-prep. However this is again in the nature of cabal warfare when outnumbered. You are not entitled to dictate to your enemies which one of them you want to fight or which one of them should back off. Although defending your cabal is important, no one expects you to commit suicide at your altar. You are not expected to win, but you are expected to try. If you get dropped to 100hp, you can flee and rest even if it means your cabal item is captured. 

Side note: Topics like this are pretty close to flames. This topic has remained fairly civilized so far, so try to keep it that way. If the thread turns into a mud-slinging match about who ganged who once, or who's cheap or a hypocrite, it will be locked and people will receive bans.

-G

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5 minutes ago, Grimulfr said:

It happens time and time again.  Your caballed its 2 on 1 and you got the 2 people going after the standard.  Yeah your job is to defend.  So if someone attacks your halls your going to try and defend.  Its so sickening.  Classy thing to do is one attacks 1 defends the end.  You do not attack in tandem.  

Attacking cabals in groups has always been done and is not against the rules. By itself, it's not tagging either. If you turn up to defend and both attackers attack you and pursue you away from the cabal guard, it is a tag-team or a gang (which I personally don't like, but it isn't against the rules either). Cabal life is meant to be tough, taking or retrieving standards is not the same as a pre-arranged Warmaster duel with rules and everyone fully prepared.

Taking a standard is stripping your opponent of his cabal powers.  Hindering the one who is outnumbered even warn the outnumbered enemy that you will be switching, make sure he/she has had time to heal.  So disgusting.  There are so many other things to do.  Claim som lands.  Even watch.  Take turns attacking and defending.  Make sure there was time to heal so both people get a chance to fight the one out numbered.  

It is perfectly acceptable for one person to attack the cabal while the other person fights the defender (ideally away from the cabal somewhere). There is no reason why, in a 2 on 1 situation, one of the caballed parties just has to sit there and watch. My personal preference is to keep PK 1 on 1, but one party killing the cabal guard and one party engaging the defender is not a tag-team, gang or whatever else - sure it makes it harder on the lone defender, but that's part of life when you are in a cabal and outnumbered by your enemies.

Also a TRUSTED or above member of a cabal should never allow his underling to attack if the Trusted/Elder/Leader is the one trying to claim the item.  The underling should be directed by the Trusted or above member to either defend or attack.

This is a personal RP matter, or a matter to be dealt with by the relevant cabal immortal. As I said above, it is not breaking any rules - whether or not the cabal immortal approves of it or not is another matter.

Thats my rant.  I will never do it unless I KNOW the foe will quit the lands.  Then it's a rush to gain the item.

This is an admirable position.

Puke city.  Be proud.  I killed someone because my enemy was outnumbered.  Fighting different opponents takes different setups.

Choosing your set-up for enemies is part of the uncertainty. If you are set up for a warrior and a mage attacks you, you often need to flee and re-prep. However this is again in the nature of cabal warfare when outnumbered. You are not entitled to dictate to your enemies which one of them you want to fight or which one of them should back off. Although defending your cabal is important, no one expects you to commit suicide at your altar. You are not expected to win, but you are expected to try. If you get dropped to 100hp, you can flee and rest even if it means your cabal item is captured. 

Side note: Topics like this are pretty close to flames. This topic has remained fairly civilized so far, so try to keep it that way. If the thread turns into a mud-slinging match about who ganged who once, or who's cheap or a hypocrite, it will be locked and people will receive bans.

-G

 
 

I never said anyone broke the rules.  I said Unclassy and sickening, and in MY OPINION which I am allowed to express, the thought process remains the same.  No one excused anyone of cheating.  Feel free to do what you want with the post.  We all need our victories.

 

"You bow down to know one" looking at the halflings.

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10 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I never said anyone broke the rules.  I said Unclassy and sickening, and in MY OPINION which I am allowed to express, the thought process remains the same.  No one excused anyone of cheating.  Feel free to do what you want with the post.  We all need our victories.

 

"You bow down to know one" looking at the halflings.

 

I never accused you of saying rules were being broken, and I never said anyone was cheating.

You are allowed to express your opinion, and I share a number of your views in relation to 1v1 PK. But it is obvious that your original post is about specific players, and if they are reading it, they know who they are. That's why I said topics like this can turn into flames.

I specifically said I was not going to remove the post unless people started flaming and accusing each other (which people had already started to do before I posted, by the way).

I have always been respectful when we've spoken in the past, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to include snide remarks like "We all need our victories"  in your response.

-G

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Just now, Grimulfr said:

 

I never accused you of saying rules were being broken, and I never said anyone was cheating.

You are allowed to express your opinion, and I share a number of your views in relation to 1v1 PK. But it is obvious that your original post is about specific players, and if they are reading it, they know who they are. That's why I said topics like this can turn into flames.

I specifically said I was not going to remove the post unless people started flaming and accusing each other (which people had already started to do before I posted, by the way).

I have always been respectful when we've spoken in the past, so I'm not sure why you feel the need to include snide remarks like "We all need our victories"  in your response.

-G

 

That in no way is a reference to you anyone.  People need to feel powerful at certain times.  That is why their are bullies in the Real world.  No one likes a bully.  They need their Victories.  One thing about me is I do not tolerate bullies in any way shape or form.

 

If I dont like what someone has to say, or the way someone is treating me, Hell yeah I am going to express myself.  The whole point of my post was to say "hey shady shady shady."  I love expressing myself.  Just as I love others expressing themselves.  The secret is to listen.  This is wisdom.

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Some of my most memorable moments were defending as a savant vs multiple Warmasters. It's not easy, but it can be fun if you know what you are doing.
This is a learn-able skill that is learned by doing it many times. I learned it by being a knight and having to retrieve my standard from multiple Nexus. At that time I wasn't very good, Triathix & co were a beast, but I slowly learned to dance, and weave vs multiple.

This is a game, having one vs more in cabal warfare will happen, and most time you will get attacked in tag team fashion. The general idea is always expect it and thus find ways to minimize it impact on you.
I find that the best way to deal with it, is to slowly bait/pull one of them away and hammer him alone. The standard can always be retrieved and one should not depend on cabal powers to PK. So what that they get your standard, you get to kill one of them.

Defending your standard vs two is pretty much asking to get killed. Once you start to attack them both with only a few seconds of difference they will pummel you. They will wait in the next room for you to flee and then murder you. Just do what you can, and never get low.

Retrieving vs two is about dancing. It's about hit and run tactics and slowly frustrating them so that you can bait one away. Then you either kill him or you take him on the grand Aabrahan wold tour, so that you can return and retrieve vs one.

With some skill you can spend an entire afternoon losing your standard and retrieving it multiple times while having fun.

The sstrategical key thing here is to understand that caring for the defense of your standard is your weakness. Once you stop caring about it, suddenly the pressure changes from you to them. They have the standard, they have numbers, but they can't kill you. It creates pressure, that you can exploit to make the odd better for you.
Then it's all PK tactics.

:dwarf:

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Huh... I've never viewed one person engaging the enemy, the other taking his item as unclassy.  Honestly, I always thought that was the classy way to go - otherwise you're relegating someone to doing absolutely nothing while a cabal enemy is about, and how does that make sense?  So long as both enemies aren't bashing me at the same time, I don't have any problem with how the engagement is handled.

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If I log on with 5 cabal enemies I fully expect them ALL to attack my guard to take my standard. Why wouldn't they? You can't gang an npc.

If just one of those 5 fights you, they should be complimented for their fairness. If all 5 gang the hell out of you at their altar, that is their choice if their cabal Imm allows them to defend in numbers at the altar.

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Class? Really. We have come so far as to expect ORDER among War?

Help History. Aabahran will never be at peace, will always be chaotic in nature, but we grow old and soft and have come to expect politeness from our enemies.

Here is an instance for you, your a good drow warrior tribunal, every drow wants to kill you, the leader of the Tower is a drow invoker, the Leader of the Syndicate is a drow ninja, every knight, crusader, and avatar hunt you like a plagie, and then there were the watchers. I fled one battle into another for several weeks literally, but I could never complain, I had gotten my wish. I died satisfied and always remembered as I played my role, those killing me and often facing damnation, were also doing their job.

Sorry you had a bad experience. Don't give up, stay to the very end, and this experience will be just another fond memory for you.

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I would personally never engage someone who is battling someone else and I know it. Even if they are not battling, but in opposing cabals, I would still not do it.

I find it absolutely hypocritical how everyone here posts that it's normal to be ganged/tagged yet they would cry out the moment it happens to them. Very recently we had such an experiment. I am honestly surprised how short the memory of this playerbase is.

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Ganging/tagging are different from one person engaging the player, everyone else hitting the altar.  I see the latter being defended, not the former.  The latter still isn't breaking any rules, but it certainly isn't classy nor to be encouraged.

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