Ehrendil (elf battlemage) vs Kotrag (feral ninja)

[Anonymous]

I was looking for some advice on the below fight, trying to establish what I did wrong. I picked up a few things already myself, but I am welcome any input as this is my first battle mage.

1. Missile Immunity scrolls, definitely needed for the launcher.

2. Make sure slow is completely off before committing to any engagements.

3. Reflective shield would help turn some of the damage around.

4. Battle mages don't have teleport.

5. Definitely need to get a source of flesh shield to assist with the -AC to help with the incoming damage.

<832/832hp 1139/1196m 529/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  
You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Kotrag!'

You fade into existence.
A shadowy blade launcher's poisoned bite MUTILATES you!
Kotrag's poisoned bite maims you!
Kotrag's poisoned bite maims you!
Kotrag swings wildly and misses you by a mile.
Kotrag's form blurs with speed!
Kotrag's strike misses you.
You parry Kotrag's attack.
Kotrag's poisoned bite maims you!
Kotrag's poisoned bite maims you!
Kotrag's tsuki strike hits you.
You feel poison coursing through your veins.
Kotrag throws his iron shurikens and hits you with several of them.
Kotrag's throw *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
Kotrag has some small wounds and bruises. 

Ehrendil: [===|===|==-|---]
<523/832hp 1139/1211m 529/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  af
Affects:
 11   -  31   -  11  15   -  15  24  18  14  36  16   2  33  34   -  
 SaN FoR FLY Pro DAN BLA PLU Ter Bur air arm shi sto pas din dma INV 
Spell: poison         : modifies str by 0 for 3 hours
Spell: mounted        : for 79 hours
Spell: slow           : modifies dex by -4 for 0 hours
Kotrag has some small wounds and bruises. 

Ehrendil: [===|===|==-|---]
<523/832hp 1139/1211m 529/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  flee
"Lux Aeternus", the Commander's Battle-Axe settles down and returns to you.
You flee from combat!
Western Resuvan Street

[Exits: north east (south) west]
You sheath your weapon.
Kotrag throws his iron shurikens and hits you with one of them.
Kotrag's throw mauls you.

<501/832hp 1139/1196m 528/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  n
Southern Arath Lane

[Exits: north south]

<501/832hp 1139/1196m 526/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  s
Western Resuvan Street

[Exits: north east (south) west]
(WANTED) (Translucent) (White Aura) Kotrag is here.

<501/832hp 1139/1196m 524/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  n

You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Kotrag!'

A shadowy blade launcher's poisoned bite MUTILATES you!
The giant blade deflects Kotrag's attack.
Kotrag's poisoned bite MUTILATES you!
Kotrag swings wildly and misses you by a mile.
Kotrag's throat cut scratches you.
With a deft slice Kotrag gores your throat!
You parry Kotrag's attack.
Kotrag's poisoned bite MUTILATES you!
Kotrag's tsuki strike wounds you.
Kotrag throws his iron shurikens and hits you with a couple of them.
Kotrag's throw MASSACRES you!
Kotrag has some small wounds and bruises. 

Ehrendil: [===|==-|---|---]
<300/832hp 1139/1211m 524/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  No way!  You are still fi
ghting!
Kotrag has some small wounds and bruises. 

Ehrendil: [===|==-|---|---]
<300/832hp 1139/1211m 524/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  n
No way!  You are still fighting!
Kotrag has some small wounds and bruises. 

Ehrendil: [===|==-|---|---]
<300/832hp 1139/1211m 524/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  fle

Kotrag's blood loss scratches you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kotrag dodges scythe's slice.
Kotrag parries a scythe's slash.
Kotrag dodges "Lux Aeternus", the Commander's Battle-Axe's fury.
Kotrag dodges "Lux Aeternus", the Commander's Battle-Axe's fury.
Your rays injure Kotrag.
You parry Kotrag's attack.
Your Terra shield deflects the attack.
Kotrag's poisoned bite devastates you!
Kotrag's poisoned bite maims you!
Kotrag's poisoned bite devastates you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kotrag's tsuki strike grazes you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kotrag has some small wounds and bruises. 

Ehrendil: [===|---|---|---]
<197/832hp 1139/1211m 524/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  "Lux Aeternus", the Comma
nder's Battle-Axe settles down and returns to you.
You flee from combat!
Southern Arath Lane

[Exits: north south]
     You notice a few spots of blood on the ground.
Kotrag throws his iron shurikens and hits you with a couple of them.
Kotrag's throw LACERATES you!
You sure are BLEEDING!

<149/832hp 1139/1211m 522/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 22>  
You feel yourself speed up.
The blades conveniently phase away from this reality.

<155/832hp 1115/1211m 528/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 23>  c tele
You don't know any spells of that name.

<155/832hp 1115/1211m 528/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 23>  e

Kotrag's blood loss scratches you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kotrag's poison scratches you.
You sure are BLEEDING!

<151/832hp 1115/1211m 528/543mv 22524tnl 536gld D 23>  e

You yell 'Help! I am being attacked by Kotrag!'
Your deadly scythes fade into reality and begin to rotate quickly.

"Lux Aeternus", the Commander's Battle-Axe bobs in the air as it heads towards K
otrag.
A shadowy blade launcher's poisoned bite misses you.
You parry Kotrag's attack.
Kotrag's poisoned bite maims you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kotrag's poisoned bite misses you.
Kotrag swings wildly and misses you by a mile.
Kotrag's poisoned bite maims you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kotrag's tsuki strike wounds you.
You sure are BLEEDING!
Kotrag throws his iron shurikens and hits you with a couple of them.
Kotrag's throw DISMEMBERS you!
You sure are BLEEDING!
"Lux Aeternus", the Commander's Battle-Axe settles down and returns to you.
You flee from combat!
Western Resuvan Street

[Exits: north east (south) west]
     You notice a few spots of blood on the ground.
     A bit of blood has pooled at your feet.
Kotrag throws his iron shurikens and hits you with several of them.
Kotrag's throw *** DEMOLISHES *** you!
You have been mortally wounded!!
You manage to completely halt your bleeding.
You are too hurt to do anything for a while.

Anonymous poster hash: 92c52...0e4

[Kyzarius]

 Kotrag is at the extreme end of the scale for Pk matchups.

Your best bet is to focus on blinding him.  Flees are costly because of autothrow too.  Same with letting him get the opening. 

In the end all you can do with this setup is try and get those openings, you are better off fleeing less.

Though he will try to flee and reengage for that vulnerable throw damage.

A flee costs you a throw on the way out and another when he murders again.  

Missile shield like you said, and avoiding those auto throws would cut his damage significantly.  

[mya]

1. Avoid fleeing. He can sense you sneak fleeing and will follow with murder. So you get a auto throw on the way out, and a full murder round + auto-throw when he re-engages. And he will, because doing nothing in battle to avoid self lag, is a very good strategy vs you. He's playing to his strengths.

2. Mirror image. Mirror image. Mirror image. These will out aid you avoid his openings.

3. Don't enlarge yourself.

4. Try to slow him. I have no idea on his saves, but it might be good.

5. Then blind him.

6. Get a pet. Sell your soul for access to charm person.

7. Don't be afraid to recall from combat. You can purchase pills of teleport. Word + eat pill. Just don't recall back from where ever you land of. He will murder you at your pit.

Forget reflective shield. He isn't stupid, all his damage was magical in nature. Unless you pump the shield before combat. Which is not going to happen because he is a ninja who can hide. Also, you are eating to much meele damage. Are you sure you are wielding a staff? Get the abbot staff from the monks.

Remember, he isn't even using half his skill set. When you are lasting a bit more in combat. You might consider the amazing spell that Meteor call is. Although It will take you about half you lives to have it spawn the following:

You pump energy into your forcefield for your protection.
The sky darkens as flaming boulders begin to impact in the area.
Your meteor === DISINTEGRATES === a Lion's Pride fighter!
Your meteor *** OBLITERATES *** a Lion's Pride fighter!
Your meteor *** OBLITERATES *** a Lion's Pride fighter!
Your meteor *** OBLITERATES *** a Lion's Pride fighter!
Your meteor *** OBLITERATES *** a Lion's Pride fighter!
A Lion's Pride fighter is in awful condition.

[sarcon]

1.) AC needs to be -600 minimum to take his output 

2.) Your going to need to somehow get your HP to 950+

3.) Because you have Air Shield, ramp up your magical AC protections. That should be 650-700 range especially if you get the cutlets and muddy bubble from elemental. 

 

Your strategy is simple. Get that Magical AC to god level. Stock up on Ancient scrolls. Land a few rusted, flee, heal, then all sharp metals. Once you've done that, then you can gauge how the fight is doing and get into more advanced tactics, however, you first need to make sure you can inflict damage while surviving his output. 

[Izzy]

Okay.  So having fought Kotrag specifically with a battlemage for a long time, I can give you some advice.  His saves are very good, trying to dispel him just is not a good option.

 

Waiting for noon is idea as this is when you are at your most powerful.  Make sure you have a way to make sure the engagement is on your turns  (Took me a long time to learn how to do this)

 

There is a way to charge your reflective field before you start the fight with him,  I will not say how, but maybe you can figure it out.  You needed to be ready with everything though before this fight starts, knowing you are bountied, you know he is coming, so you should be ready.

 

Meteor storm is nice, yet your going to take some damage as well, I would only fight him with a reflective shield.  Forget everything else and just try to sharp metal.  All damage.

 

I actually think that with all the changes to ninjas, it could be done as a battlemage.  Your an elf as well with good dex, so very nice for you.  Get into a Cabal.

 

Try being the aggressor.

[f0xx]

1 hour ago, mya said:

3. Don't enlarge yourself.

I am curious to hear the reasoning behind this advice... 

[Magick]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

There is a way to charge your reflective field before you start the fight with him,  I will not say how, but maybe you can figure it out.

 

It should be just to cast the spell again.  Seriously, unless it's specifically taboo as set by the Imms, the information should flow freely.

[Izzy]

On 2/19/2017 at 1:03 PM, Magick said:

 

It should be just to cast the spell again.  Seriously, unless it's specifically taboo as set by the Imms, the information should flow freely.

 

 

Best way to charge is not to recast its to allow yourself to be hit by a creature that does lots of damage and fills the charge so you dont need to cast the spell repeatedly.

 

When its fully charged it stays charged.

I used to go fight the warmasters Titan to fill my charge.  This way if your opponent is using magical weapons then your good.

[aaa]

Are those shurikens not affected by air shield? Id imagine they're physical damage. 

[English lad]

4 hours ago, Wade said:

Are those shurikens not affected by air shield? Id imagine they're physical damage. 

Elves are vuln iron if i remember correctly? Iron Shuriken / daggers is one of the few ways to access this as a damage type in the game.

Certain vulns were originally put in as a way of restricting equipment use - and weren't accessible via damage means - I think every vuln can be tapped via throw these days.

[aaa]

I know how the vuln works.

Unless I'm completely mistaken things like fire shurikens are magical damage and things like steel shurikens would be physical.

So, my question is, does air shield (which gives the bmg resistance to physical attacks like a giant) not reduce the damage of iron shurikens, which I assume should be physical damage?
 

[Fool_Hardy]

Personally, I think air shield should have some small affect on ANY incoming ranged attack as it travels through the air shield. But that's just my opinion.

[aaa]

@Erelei Any insight into how vuln physical thrown weapons interact with air shield? 

[Erelei]

Air shield isn't a major reduction in physical damage. You're looking at roughly 33% reduction, and that also depend on what other protections you have. For instance, sanctuary is 50% reduction from the current damage after air_shield has been passed (air shield is checked first out of any dam_redux). 

So sanctuary may not seem as useful, since it'll be taking 50% away from a reduction of 33% already. So think: physical damage, vuln, is *2. Let's say this throw uses several shurikens, which would have normally done around an *** OBLITERATE *** or === DISINTEGRATE === without any protection. That's between 175 and 250 damage, so we'll take the average.

So 212 would be initial damage (low end disintegrate).

We multiply that by 2, because of vulnerability. 424. We're at an unspeakable here. But then we divide it my 33%. The damage is now at 282. That's just from air shield. We've reduced it to a high end disintegrate. Then sanctuary: 141. We've reduced it to a high end demolish.

Add protection on top of that, and we reduce it further, by 25% in fact. This would bring it to 106, which is still a demolish, but a low end demolish. 

Kotrag is neutral, so protection wouldn't apply.

 

[Fridge]

Can you explain every aspect of the game like this?

[hotspring monkey]

[mya]

Base thrown damage = 100 dam

Vuln multiplier x2 => 100 x 2 = 200 dam

Air shield multiplier 66% => 200 x (2/3) = 133 dam

Sanctuary multiplier 50% => 133 x (1/2) = 66 dam

Protection multiplier 25% => 66 x (3/4) = 49 dam

There. I used 100 damage base, because that way damage also represents a percentage to the base damage.
If base damage was 212, then the end value would be 212 * 49% = 105

@hotspring monkey

@Erelei So throw vuln is x2 instead of classical x1.5 ? Dam, I miss bard throw.

[Celerity]

I was also wondering about the 2x vuln bit.

Also, as a side note, the order of operations doesn't matter. The result is the same if air shield is before or after sanctuary.

100*.6667*.5*.75*2=50% damage taken

100*.5*2*.75*.6667=50% damage taken

I would also like to say that 33% is a big reduction in my opinion. That is worth 333 hp in a 1000 max health fight by itself vs physical damage. It usually won't be by itself though.

100*.6667*.5*.75=25% of damage inflicted (no vuln added, but with air shield, sanctuary, and protection)

100*.5*.75=37.5% of damage inflicted (with only sanc and protection)

The difference between having air shield and no air shield in an otherwise prepped fight (no stone skin) is 12.5% or 125 hp of 1000 max. Of course, turn this around, and that is the damage increase you get from using a magical weapon vs an air shielded bmg.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify how it works!

 

9 hours ago, Erelei said:

Air shield isn't a major reduction in physical damage. You're looking at roughly 33% reduction, and that also depend on what other protections you have. For instance, sanctuary is 50% reduction from the current damage after air_shield has been passed (air shield is checked first out of any dam_redux).

 

 

[Ulmusdorn]

Your biggest problem in this fight was that you shouldn't have even fought. 

Judging by the fact that you took 2-3 rounds of unanswered damage (not even a spell cast, just you trying to flee) should have made you get out of there immediately. 

Advice: The only way you will win is to be 100% on the offensive. Have you thought about trying the flame arrow wand against Kotrag? 

Alternatively sear + meteor shower are your friends here. 

Without being rude, your eq needs some love. Maybe focus on the getting some high AC armor? 

 

Name(s): culet obsidian leaves straps
Armor class is 18 pierce, 14 bash, 11 slash, and 33 vs. magic
Extra description keywords: 'culet obsidian leaves straps'
Affects luck by 3, level 30.
Affects hitroll by 1, level 30.
Affects str by 1, level 30.

 

Name(s): mitre hierophant hierophant's lallinthera
Affects hp by 25, level 50.
Affects ac by -25, level 50.

 

Name(s): muddy bauble
Has following socket flags: armor
Adds following to extra flags: none
Adds following to weapon flags: none
Affects ac by -8, level 25.
Affects con by 1, level 25.
Affects dex by 1, level 25.

Flesh armor is readily available, get the gold flower from the Escimar E'gal.

[mya]

@Celerity Well just o mess with you, the Order does matter, but little.

(3 * 2) /2 =/= ( 3 / 2) * 2

(  6  )  / 2  =/= ( 1  ) * 2
     3         =/=    2

Since all this number are integers so, there aren't fractions anywhere.

[Celerity]

Sure, but it doesn't matter when using the same operation, multiplying in this case. @mya As relevant to sanctuary reducing before or after air shield, the result is the same.

[mya]

Someone throws his iron shurikens and hits you with several of them.
Someone's throw >>> ANNIHILATES <<< you!
That really did HURT!

284 damage

Bah!!!, I got so much work still to do... ;(

[Anonymous]

This log is a over a month old, probably the first death I took at 50 with my first battle mage ever. Since then I've applied quite a lot of advice from the players, and some practical experience against Kotrag and his cronnies, and the bush folk. However it is new to me that when using Air Shield, magical weapons do increased damage... if that is true, then I may need to make some adjustments to my game plan.

I've since taken the advice given here, and upped my HP to over 950 and got my -AC into the 600's, especially with magical attacks, and I've started using missile immunity whenever possible. 

There is one thing that has me a little puzzled though, and that was the advice on Reflective Shield. Since we've got some BMG experts in the house, I'll post this here since I never got a reply elsewhere. I hope Kotrag doesn't mind, I suspect not as I truly believe he is a good sport. 

This is essentially what I wrote.....

 

I've been tossing up different strategies for fighting Kotrag, and even he asked me at some point why I wasn't using reflective shield. I replied I had found it useless in the past against people using magical weapons(which he does always, naturally). However reading some advice in the PK log, some said once you charge up your shield, it remains charged. However I've not found that. Just wanted to make sure it's working correctly.

 

It takes 8 recasting of the spell to charge it to it's max, which is 55 x 8 = 440 mana. Plus two tick lag per cast, so it's a far bit of time to get there.

It lasts 12 hours, and it doesn't increase in duration with charge, so the time you fully charge it, you've basically lost two hours.

* The charge on your reflective shield is too high to handle safely. *

 

Kotrag lights some dark black leaves and smokes it.
Kotrag is surrounded by a white aura.

<982/982hp 1156/1201m 513/513mv 37524tnl 4124gld D 2>  
murder kotr
Kotrag (Die-Hard) yells wildly 'Help! I am being attacked by Ehrendil!'
Your reflective shield releases its charge!
Your reflective field MUTILATES Kotrag! <====== Through sanc, pretty good.
Your flaming bite misses Kotrag.
Kotrag nods.
Kotrag has a few scratches. 

Ehrendil: [===|===|===|===]
<982/982hp 1156/1201m 513/513mv 37524tnl 4124gld D 2>  
Your reflective shield releases its charge!
Your reflective field injures Kotrag. <====== eh, not great, but you expect it to always hit high.
Kotrag parries your attack.
You parry Kotrag's attack.
Kotrag swings wildly and misses you by a mile.
Your Terra shield deflects the attack.
Kotrag's poisoned bite decimates you!
Your Terra shield deflects the attack.
Kotrag's tsuki strike wounds you.
Kotrag has a few scratches. 

Ehrendil: [===|===|===|===]
<934/982hp 1156/1201m 513/513mv 37524tnl 4124gld D 2>  
Your reflective shield releases its charge!
Your reflective field grazes Kotrag. <====== getting worse..
Kotrag blocks your attack with his weapon.
You lift your hand to deflect the blows, and a fierce gust of wind surrounds you!
You are already protected by an air shield.
You parry Kotrag's attack.
Your Terra shield deflects the attack.
Kotrag's poisoned bite maims you!
Kotrag's poisoned bite MUTILATES you!
Kotrag's tsuki strike scratches you.
Kotrag has a few scratches. 

Ehrendil: [===|===|===|==-]
<859/982hp 1156/1201m 513/513mv 37524tnl 4124gld D 2>  
Your reflective shield releases its charge!
Your reflective field scratches Kotrag. <===== and worse again.
Kotrag dodges your attack.
Kotrag's poisoned bite devastates you!
Kotrag swings wildly and misses you by a mile.
Kotrag's poisoned bite devastates you!
Kotrag's poisoned bite maims you!
Kotrag's poisoned bite devastates you!
Kotrag's tsuki strike mauls you.
Kotrag has a few scratches. 

 

Is it actually meant to hold charge? Considering the amount of mana spent to charge it, or going through the effort of having it charged by attacking something that does physical damage, healing, then hoping to encounter the person I need to within that 12 hour period, although within 12 hours, it's difficult to gather enough charge, heal the damage, find said individual, fight him. It's already a pretty difficult task alone to keep up bmg spells, and sanc, on top of doing this as well? Seems pretty wild. But just curious if A. this is working correctly as intended, or B. am I doing something wrong here?

 

 

 

 

Anonymous poster hash: 92c52...0e4

[Celerity]

33 minutes ago, Anonymous said:

However it is new to me that when using Air Shield, magical weapons do increased damage... if that is true, then I may need to make some adjustments to my game plan.

It isn't that magical weapons actually do more damage when you are using air shield. It is that physical weapons do less damage, so the magical weapon has a relative advantage as described in my post earlier. You should always have air shield up if you can.

Re reflective shield: It is a good question. I think it used to be that it maintained its charge, but that was deemed OP (maybe 10 years ago). Bmg spells really could use some updating, and this is a good example of one. Right now, reflective shield is just a really bad steel wall. There is a ton of potential in the spell for interesting effects, so I hope if it is updated, it isn't just to make it an unblockable damage shield.

[mya]

The reflective shield as name implies, reflects damage. It reflects physical damage, you can cast charge it or just get hit with physical meele damage.

As the reflective shield reflects damage it loses charge that needs to be replaced. In combat vs an opponent wielding physical weapons this happens naturaly as you get hit.
In the past, magical meeles attacks used to recharge the shield  a tiny bit. Now they don't.
 

In my opinion, only use reflective shield  vs opponents that are dealing physical damage like Rangers/Necros/DK's (pets) and mobs. Use FORCE field and call meteors.