Saves, mages and melees. Controversial, I know.

[aaa]

2 minutes ago, f0xx said:

Why not? You assume power creep affects melees alone?

It's much easier now for mages to get HP, AC and saves. 

Also, from what I've noticed, spells have indeed been buffed.

So, why not again?

I can't say I've noticed spells being buffed? Got an example?

I never said power creep affects melees alone but if you think if affects mages and melees equally then I'm not sure I can ever dissuade you otherwise.

Why not? Because no one is perfect, its impossible that its just as balanced as 10 years ago.

4 minutes ago, Trick said:

Chesta has done this.. you guys are ignoring it so blatantly.. you say no one can roll the pbase with a mage yet Chesta JUST did it.. Kyzarius JUST did it.. 

Seriously.. lol.

But no one is talking about the top of the top and for those 2 examples there are how many melee examples? At least in the ballpark of 5x as many?

[f0xx]

4 minutes ago, Pali said:

So Celerity, Kyzarius, Mya and myself don't understand what we're talking about?

Well, Mya and Kyz have proven their strong bias towards mages many times.

Cel.... she just wants to change stuff for the sake of change, just like you want to argue for the sake of argument.

Your last two characters that you've made public are Teldrin and Vaelrasa. If you consider them successful, PK wise.... then I have nothing more to add.

And yes, the game isn't perfectly balanced. As we've talked with some IMMs about this, this is asymmetrical balance aka paper, rock, scissors type of balance. Some combos are strong against other combos, which even makes this whole "mage vs melee" discussion even more absurd.

[f0xx]

3 minutes ago, Wade said:

I can't say I've noticed spells being buffed? Got an example?

There *IS* an example, find it out yourself. I am not going to spoon feed you with this attitude.

 

[f0xx]

Just now, Wade said:

I seem to recall you claiming blademasters were balanced too, conveniently you were apparently playing one at the time. 

Mate, blademasters' biggest nerf came after a suggestion of mine.

I am done with this thread.

[Trick]

So, you say mages can't be at the top. I give examples then you say those examples don't count..? Ehhh... what...?

Okay. Power creep is real. Does it affect everyone? Yes. Do melees get a bit more room? Sure. It is easier now to have high saves and high hit/dam. Just like it is easier to have high hp/-ac. If we are to talk about a trade off, I would argue it'd be better to lower damage across the board and not just damage towards mages. Why? PK will last longer, on average, and everyone will have more fun, except f0xx, but no one likes him anyways. 

In the end, who cares. Top PKers will still be on top, a new flavor of the month whining thread will come around, and we'll deal with that instead. 

Like always.

[aaa]

3 minutes ago, Trick said:

So, you say mages can't be at the top. I give examples then you say those examples don't count..? Ehhh... what...?

Okay. Power creep is real. Does it affect everyone? Yes. Do melees get a bit more room? Sure. It is easier now to have high saves and high hit/dam. Just like it is easier to have high hp/-ac. If we are to talk about a trade off, I would argue it'd be better to lower damage across the board and not just damage towards mages. Why? PK will last longer, on average, and everyone will have more fun, except f0xx, but no one likes him anyways. 

In the end, who cares. Top PKers will still be on top, a new flavor of the month whining thread will come around, and we'll deal with that instead. 

Like always.

Oh, I never said mages can't be at the top. My argument has never been about the top but mostly lowering the barrier of entry and closing the gap for mages so they're more accessible to more players.

Otherwise I agree, how about increasing the protection sanctuary provides? Everyone fights with it anyway.

 

[Pali]

3 minutes ago, f0xx said:

Well, Mya and Kyz have proven their strong bias towards mages many times.

Cel.... she just wants to change stuff for the sake of change, just like you want to argue for the sake of argument.

...because that's constructive rather than dismissive.  Tell me one thing: where in this thread have I claimed bias on your side is the reason you make your case?  I could just as easily ignore everything you say by saying you're biased or stubborn - where does that get us?  How does that lead to any improvements in the situation?

 

4 minutes ago, f0xx said:

Your last two characters that you've made public are Teldrin and Vaelrasa. If you consider them successful, PK wise.... then I have nothing more to add.

I don't.  Teldrin in particular wasn't meant to be.  As I've said many times, I tend to think the issue isn't a matter of power but player perception and how the game rewards the player (and I said this as far back as Vaelrasa's deletion thread, that I didn't find bmgs weak, I found them not fun).  Changing player attitudes can certainly be a part of addressing that, but I tend to think that we want the game attracting players, not demanding things of them.  Others think the problem is something else.  Others think there isn't a problem.  All of these positions are fine to hold, fine to make the case of.  What disturbs me here far more than any issue that might exist with mages is how dismissive many people are to those who think there's a problem in the first place.